PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[MrBedrock]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

I see a bunch of people with them at shows. Even some boardies.

[Mr.Diggler]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

I see a bunch of people with them at shows. Even some boardies.

Trey mentioned board members selling PGX books on the boards. I wasn't clear with my other post.

[VintageComics]

You are looking at the transaction from a completion point of view. Yes, the transaction was successfully completed. No, Joey did not return the book when he discovered it was in a PGX slab. Perhaps he is slow and needs to be cut some slack. Does this invalidate the fact that the book should have never been listed for sale on the boards to begin with? No.

 

 

Believe it or not I agree with this entirely.

 

[VintageComics]

I was going to try a poll asking if attempting to sell a non CGC slabbed book, should be a probational offense (in the future), but once I started thinking about it (instead of digging the ditch I should be digging;) it got convoluted...

 

Should you go on the list if you TRY and sell a non CGC book?

 

Should you go on the list only if you are successful in selling one?

 

How many times does a new person get to ignore posts telling them they can't sell a non CGC slabbed book?

 

Should the person who BUYS a non CGC slabbed book, go on the list?

 

How do you get off this list?

 

Is the death penalty a viable option?

 

I think I gave myself a headache, so I'll let someone who is better at polls figure it out, there are those puppies and ditches to take care of;)

 

 

You're funny.

 

[PovertyRow]

divad just added Trey to the Probation List.

 

Doesn't Trey have 72 hours to respond to his being nominated to the list ... to be actually placed on the list?

 

I think POV actually did work with everyone to put that rule in place. Hopefully he helps clarify what the suggested engagement is now.

 

I saw the PL updated already and changed it back.

 

72 hours has already passed. Trey has been, ahem, "deeply" involved in the discussion of his antics. There is no need for this foolishness. We heard his "defense" already. That thread got nuked.

 

Less than 25 hours has passed since this was brought up in Probation Discussions by Trey. Less than 24 hours since Joey started making suggestions about other people putting Trey on the PL and finally said he was nominating him.

[Green]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

[faster friends]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

Pretty sure they were CGC slabs.

[VintageComics]

What are the prior transgressions. The discussion should be HOS if he's a repeat offender.

Long story short= An lcs near trey had a lot of marvel keys for sale, Jim 83 Tos 39 etc. Trey took pics of them and 'sold' them on the forums with the hopes of taking the cash and getting a good deal on the lot. It was a very classic epic fail, i wish i could find the threads.

 

Roy 'bought' the jim 83 iirc. Im sure he knows the details better than i

 

Trey listed some books for sale that he didn't own. They were for sale in a local comic shop. I hit the BIN and when it came time to pay and for him to deliver the books, the comic store owner who had the books would not sell them to Trey.

 

The books were real, the comic store owner was real. It was verified by JeBaily and Pinball, two very reputable board members and good people as far as I'm concerned.

 

The store owner apparently is a bit of a character and would not sell the books to people he knew, or something along those lines...only to new customers. Just a strange cat and this hobby is obviously full of them.

 

Trey came on and to save face concocted one of the funniest stories ever to be posted on these boards...I can't even remember the details but something along the lines of his mentally challenged brother preventing him from selling the books.

 

Anyway, Trey was pressed for details as the cross examination of this forum is wont to do and he came to explain that he had made the story up because he was too embarrassed to tell the truth about the local comic store owner.

 

It was actually a pretty tough moment for me. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry for the guy.

 

Anyhow, he cleaned up his act after that for two years. I think we've bought and sold a few books between each other over the years (as did other forum members...he always had the odd selling thread as did I) and I had no reservations about dealing with the guy. I know he bought a few books from me anyway.

 

I'm not saying this to say he's OK to deal with or to vouch for him, I just think he's harmless. At least outwardly. He's more harmful to himself than he is to anyone else.

 

Still, actions have consequences and he absolutely needs to be made aware of that to keep the spirit of the community alive. It just needs to be effective and not punitive.

The whole point of a punishment is to teach a person a lesson and hopefully make them a better person. Not to replace shooting mocking birds with a bb gun and pulling the wings off of dragonflys.

 

That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

I commented on this in the original thread that was deleted. I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to bring it up but I would like to discuss the issue of zero tolerance of comments in a sales thread. If I remember Trey's sales thread correctly, someone inquired about the PGX slab and basically Trey told them to mind their business and stay out of the sales thread. It is possible, if this issue was pursued in the sales thread, this event would never have happened. The Boards don't tolerate comments in a sales thread to protect the Seller. However, what about the buyer. Saying a book is not in a PGX slab when it is, misrepresenting GPA statistics, etc. should be challenged.

Anybody else agree with me ?

Edited November 20, 2011 by bomber-bob

[USArmyParatrooper]

It was actually a pretty tough moment for me. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry for the guy.

 

Easy choice. You cry if it was your money and you laugh if it happened to someone else.

 

 

[joeypost]

I commented on this in the original thread that was deleted. I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to bring it up but I would like to discuss the issue of zero tolerance of comments in a sales thread. If I remember Trey's sales thread correctly, someone inquired about the PGX slab and basically Trey told them to mind their business and stay out of the sales thread. It is possible, if this issue was pursued in the sales thread, this event would never have happened. The Boards don't tolerate comments in a sales thread to protect the Seller. However, what about the buyer. Saying a book is not in a PGX slab when it is, misrepresenting GPA statistics, etc. should be challenged.

Anybody else agree with me ?

 

I do.

[Bio-Rupp]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

You are mine you little, bitty troll.

[VintageComics]

I commented on this in the original thread that was deleted. I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place to bring it up but I would like to discuss the issue of zero tolerance of comments in a sales thread. If I remember Trey's sales thread correctly, someone inquired about the PGX slab and basically Trey told them to mind their business and stay out of the sales thread. It is possible, if this issue was pursued in the sales thread, this event would never have happened. The Boards don't tolerate comments in a sales thread to protect the Seller. However, what about the buyer. Saying a book is not in a PGX slab when it is, misrepresenting GPA statistics, etc. should be challenged.

Anybody else agree with me ?

 

I agree in the case of the PGX book. It should have been pursued.

 

Trey should have his nuts kicked in for lying about it (if he actually did, I don't remember what was said exactly).

 

As far as other things like the prices of books, those are sensitive subjects with a MYRIAD (I love this word) of variables although the conversation about the subject might be worth discussing IMO.

 

(I put the IMO in there so that Ginger couldn't say I was pontificating... )

 

(thumbs u

[comix4fun]

Jurisdictional question:

 

If the offense that we are seeking to place Trey on the probation list for is the one of selling a PGX book in the first place isn't that a violation of the forum TOS, and isn't this a Moderator issue, with Moderator level remedies (strikes, suspensions, listing in a permanent strike record, etc.)??

 

If the offense that we are seeking to place Trey on the probation list for is one of lying about selling a PGX slab and pimping for feedback the buyer didn't want to give then shouldn't we drop all the discussion of the sale of a PGX slab and get down to the meat of the honesty, or lack thereof, on Trey's part?

 

 

It's an important distinction. The probation list isn't here to punish violations of the term of service or general board guidelines. Otherwise we should be listing every shill, every masker, every guy who lists political items because they are all violations of board rules. We are heading down the wrong road if we don't follow our own rules.

 

 

PGX slabs are not supposed to be sold here. That's an Administrative rule.

There is nothing inherently wrong about selling a book inside a PGX slab that would land the person on the probation list, unless it involves dishonesty in the transaction. The only reason we are talking about PGX slabs in the first place is because the Mods have noted that they cannot be sold here and have enacted their own remedies to handle that situation. There's a process already in place that doesn't require the probation list to punish the action.

 

I see the probation list's power in listing transactions gone bad from dishonesty, or failure to perform property, but I am not seeing it as a redundant enforcement arm of the Administrations rules and regs.

 

I hope that made sense. Too many people are stuck on the fact that it's a PGX slab and we aren't getting down to the meat of the discussion and frankly, people jumping the gun to add him to the list are undermining whatever credibility the list has. I think the torches will keep burning just fine while the, carefully set up, due process completes itself.

[8milemax]

Who else has been selling PGX slabs? Allegedly.

linky dink

 

You are mine you little, bitty troll.

 

First I don't see this as trolling, I see that he busted you and you are upset. Wow that sounds like a threat on your part.

Edited November 20, 2011 by 8milemax

[comicdonna]

I believe lying about the book being in a PGX slab falls under dishonesty in the transaction.

[PovertyRow]

And for those who think I belong I would like to see your reasoning why.

 

I think neither you nor Trey belong on the PL.

 

I think Trey was bypassing the first Sales Guideline by knowingly selling a PGX book. He furthered that by not revealing it was a PGX book.

 

To my mind that is an offense that goes beyond the PL.

 

To quote the PL rules themselves:

 

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time.

 

That did not happen. As even Watson agrees, the transaction itself was not the issue.

 

Earlier I suggested that 3 attempts to sell a non-GC book would result in an HOS vote.

 

I would like to amend that to 2 attempts. One warning and on the 2nd occasion an HOS vote can be initiated.

 

One of the other rules in the PL is that someone can be removed from the PL if the two parties can come to an agreement. What you did wrong was make that almost impossible by deslabbing the book and keeping it for yourself...until the feedback issue came up.

 

As I also said earlier, how many times have we gotten on someone's case for buying from Robo? And when the person admits they did not know about Robo they are usually told that by buying form him they help him continue his methods.

 

I see no difference here. Buying from Trey, realizing it was a PGX book, saying nothing about it and cracking it out for yourself : that is allowing him to continue selling non-CGC books undisclosed

 

The PL also states, in order to get off the list:

 

If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, the accused will be removed from the PL.

.

What restitution are you entitled to? What happened in the transaction you did not agree with? You obviously agreed to a PGX book by cracking it out and putting it in a mylar for your collection rather than returning it.

 

Basically both you and Trey have screwed the Probation List seven ways from Sunday.

[comicdonna]

I am pretty sure Joey didn't know it was a PGX book when he purchased it.

[Bomber-Bob]

And for those who think I belong I would like to see your reasoning why.

 

I think neither you nor Trey belong on the PL.

 

I think Trey was bypassing the first Sales Guideline by knowingly selling a PGX book. He furthered that by not revealing it was a PGX book.

 

To my mind that is an offense that goes beyond the PL.

 

To quote the PL rules themselves:

 

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time.

 

That did not happen. As even Watson agrees, the transaction itself was not the issue.

 

Earlier I suggested that 3 attempts to sell a non-GC book would result in an HOS vote.

 

I would like to amend that to 2 attempts. One warning and on the 2nd occasion an HOS vote can be initiated.

 

One of the other rules in the PL is that someone can be removed from the PL if the two parties can come to an agreement. What you did wrong was make that almost impossible by deslabbing the book and keeping it for yourself...until the feedback issue came up.

 

As I also said earlier, how many times have we gotten on someone's case for buying from Robo? And when the person admits they did not know about Robo they are usually told that by buying form him they help him continue his methods.

 

I see no difference here. Buying from Trey, realizing it was a PGX book, saying nothing about it and cracking it out for yourself : that is allowing him to continue selling non-CGC books undisclosed

 

The PL also states, in order to get off the list:

 

If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, the accused will be removed from the PL.

.

What restitution are you entitled to? What happened in the transaction you did not agree with? You obviously agreed to a PGX book by cracking it out and putting it in a mylar for your collection rather than returning it.

 

Basically both you and Trey have screwed the Probation List seven ways from Sunday.

 

I'm not sure what conclusion you are drawing here. Are you saying Trey should not be put on probation because there is no way for him to get himself removed from probation ?

[8milemax]

And for those who think I belong I would like to see your reasoning why.

 

I think neither you nor Trey belong on the PL.

 

I think Trey was bypassing the first Sales Guideline by knowingly selling a PGX book. He furthered that by not revealing it was a PGX book.

 

To my mind that is an offense that goes beyond the PL.

 

To quote the PL rules themselves:

 

The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time.

 

That did not happen. As even Watson agrees, the transaction itself was not the issue.

 

Earlier I suggested that 3 attempts to sell a non-GC book would result in an HOS vote.

 

I would like to amend that to 2 attempts. One warning and on the 2nd occasion an HOS vote can be initiated.

 

One of the other rules in the PL is that someone can be removed from the PL if the two parties can come to an agreement. What you did wrong was make that almost impossible by deslabbing the book and keeping it for yourself...until the feedback issue came up.

 

As I also said earlier, how many times have we gotten on someone's case for buying from Robo? And when the person admits they did not know about Robo they are usually told that by buying form him they help him continue his methods.

 

I see no difference here. Buying from Trey, realizing it was a PGX book, saying nothing about it and cracking it out for yourself : that is allowing him to continue selling non-CGC books undisclosed

 

The PL also states, in order to get off the list:

 

If the accused makes full restitution to the satisfaction of the accuser, the accused will be removed from the PL.

.

What restitution are you entitled to? What happened in the transaction you did not agree with? You obviously agreed to a PGX book by cracking it out and putting it in a mylar for your collection rather than returning it.

 

Basically both you and Trey have screwed the Probation List seven ways from Sunday.

 

If thats the case, why did divad ad trey to the list?