PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[jsilverjanet]

Had a recent issue with a transaction with seller on the boards

 

He sold me 2 copies of Avengers 55 without pics. Prior to sending payment he sent me pics of the books. Books were graded both as VG/F I sent payment via check.

 

7 days after sending payment I decided I wanted out of the deal. I offered $50 as payment for any lost time. He refused and said a deal was a deal. I said ok.

 

I received the books a few days later and found one of the books had a tear on the cover and tape on the inside of the book. When I went back to look at the pics that he had sent me via PM, those pics had been removed. I contacted the seller and asked if he knew of the tape. He said he did not but felt the comic still was in the grade he sold them to me. I disagreed and seller refused and said I only wanted a refund because I initially said I wanted out of the deal and was using this as an excuse to get my money back.

 

Tape is a 4 letter word in this community. Failure to acknowledge it prior to a sale whether intentional or unintentional is a big error. At minimum I should have received a partial refund. I believe that the seller would have refunded money to any other buyer but refused to me because of his belief that I was using it as an excuse.

 

Bottom line for me is we all buy and sell here as a whole. I may need to buy something from you tomorrow and sell you something next week, if we cant work things out and accept when we've made a mistake then we shouldn't be on these boards selling and buying under the pretense of collectors.

 

I do see both sides of this. You did try to back out of a deal after it was agreed upon and you even sent a check. That's a little odd but at least you offered to compensate him. He probably should have not forced you to keep the deal but it's not a requirement. From the seller's perspective it does seem a little fishy but he probably should have offered a refund for the undisclosed tape, though that could depend on the language written into the sale terms (no returns, etc.). What I'm not understanding is your desire for a partial refund when you were going to offer $50 for, essentially, nothing. How much do you want the refund to be? Are Avengers 55s in that grade really selling for that much?

 

Frankly, I'm not seeing the seller as being eligible for probation. Being difficult doesn't make him a PLer unless he broke stated terms related to the sale (maybe he did, I don't know what those terms were). Should he refund the money upon return of the books? Yeah, probably. Does he have reason to be suspicious of your motivations after you tried to back out of a deal a week after sending payment? Yeah, probably.

 

My advice? Put the seller on your do-not-conduct-business-with list and move on.

 

It seems like that's the way this is going to go. While I understand the nature of Kudos thread and the purpose of this one, incidents like this are hard to place in a category as both of us will continue to buy and sell (except to each other). It's just frustrating because you expect everyone to operate under certain terms but I guess one should never make that assumption. I was handling this my way but was told to follow the proper process when having an issue so I did.

 

 

[GAMBIT]

Hi,

 

I sold this person 2 copies of AV55 during the hype, I listed the books without pics and as vg/f raw grade as I was out of town and unable to provide them at the moment. ( I am a very tight grader and my track record shows, if anything I under grade my books ) The user (jsilverjanet) PM'd me, acknowledged the facts and worked out a deal for both books.

 

Then requested I wait a week till he send out payment. I had no problem with that. He then sent payment a little longer then the week requested. again No problem

 

I received the money/check, Same day I deposited the money into the bank and wait to clear before shipping out the books . (common act)

 

2 days after depositing the check I get a PM from him, asking to cancel our deal and refund him the money, "because he got caught up in the hype" (and the prices dropped)... Mind you.. this is weeks after the sale was agreed to, which I had to turn down 4 different people requesting to buy these books at my listed price (which is MORE then what I charged this fellow) . I explained to him that I can not cancel a deal due to that fact. that is not how this business runs. Had he requested this a day or 2 after the deal I would have had no problem canceling the transaction, as I had many other interested people. ( not weeks after, when the hype died down)

 

With that, he gets very annoyed with me. Comes at me with "Thanks for telling me my check arrived and you deposited it. ship me my books ASAP" (as if I am trying to rip him off or something, I did tell him I would PM him with tracking once it ships) and without argument I did just that. just to end this deal.

 

Now, I am just waiting to hear back from this guy with some kind of complaint to get out of this deal, (as he tried already before, and got nasty with me)

 

He receives books lightning fast. and then posts 1 of my books in the PGM thread.. in which it came back with a 5.5-6.0 ( higher then my grade. which is common!) , the 2nd book has tape on the interior cover. but overall is a nice book and should still hold a vg/f grade. He proceeds with "im not happy with this book, it has tape" and wants a full refund. again, mind you.. he bought and paid for this book without ever seeing them. so he had no problems doing that, but now "tape" is a reason to refund, even though the book is at the grade suggested?

 

I again explained to him, and he got nasty. and went on to "try" to trash my name. (nasty posts in my kudos thread, that was lifted and then another indirect jab in his own sales thread, both, which could have had him suspensed)

 

I have been on these boards a long time and have dealt with a lot of people. (4 figure deals both as buyer and seller without ever a complaint ) I am very commutative and have no problems at all working things out. but with this guy, and the way he conducts himself (or lack there of) I have no interest in dealing with him at all. He has no idea how books grade (as you see in his prev post - 80% of them are in the PGM forum) and he is upset that the books he bought have settled down in price. and expects full refund for numerous reasons. never mind the time and money wasted.

 

I feel that deal was fair, and both books that were sold are of said grade, and this "buyer" is grasping at anything he can to get out of the deal. I don't deal like that and wouldn't expect anyone else too either

 

 

[Ryan.]

This seems like one of those situations where the more discussion it entails the worse everyone will end up looking.

[jsilverjanet]

Hi,

 

"im not happy with this book, it has tape" and wants a full refund

 

 

I never requested a full refund. i said the second book was fine. As for the other comments, yes I did put in the jibe in my sales thread, however I never directly named you. I have since removed that. I did put feedback on the kudos thread but it was not nasty. I stuck to the facts there as I did here. I acknowledge in both posts that I wanted out and I've never hidden that fact. I also acknowledge in both posts and in the PM messages that I accepted a deal is a deal.

 

Since I have your attention -

 

I'm curious why did you delete the pictures/posts in the PMs you sent me about the books after the books shipped?

 

As for buying without scans - I purchased the books based on your feedback. It said you grading was great and you are a good seller. I trusted you and while one book was great the second wasn't.

 

You acknowledged that you weren't aware of the tape (in the PM) so I'm curious if the tape wasn't part of your original grading process yet still fit the grade you gave it? I know if sold anyone a comic and failed to disclose the tape whether intentional or unintentional I would try to correct it and I'm sure you would to.

 

While you say I'm trying to find a way to get out of the deal, it appears that you are using my initial request out of the deal as a way to absolve you of any wrong doing with the tape and the refusal for any refund or trying to work out the matter.

[jsilverjanet]

This seems like one of those situations where the more discussion it entails the worse everyone will end up looking.

 

Agreed. I am sticking to the facts in all my posts as I am familiar that emotion can distort the truth, and make things worse.

 

Again the facts are

 

1 - I wanted out of the deal, my mistake

2 - one of the books had tape and was not disclosed - his mistake

3 - refund requested (for one book) - original thread did not have any refund/return information, so I guess my mistake.

 

 

[comix4fun]

Hi,

 

"im not happy with this book, it has tape" and wants a full refund

 

 

I never requested a full refund. i said the second book was fine. As for the other comments, yes I did put in the jibe in my sales thread, however I never directly named you. I have since removed that. I did put feedback on the kudos thread but it was not nasty. I stuck to the facts there as I did here. I acknowledge in both posts that I wanted out and I've never hidden that fact. I also acknowledge in both posts and in the PM messages that I accepted a deal is a deal.

 

Since I have your attention -

 

I'm curious why did you delete the pictures/posts in the PMs you sent me about the books after the books shipped?

 

As for buying without scans - I purchased the books based on your feedback. It said you grading was great and you are a good seller. I trusted you and while one book was great the second wasn't.

 

You acknowledged that you weren't aware of the tape (in the PM) so I'm curious if the tape wasn't part of your original grading process yet still fit the grade you gave it? I know if sold anyone a comic and failed to disclose the tape whether intentional or unintentional I would try to correct it and I'm sure you would to.

 

While you say I'm trying to find a way to get out of the deal, it appears that you are using my initial request out of the deal as a way to absolve you of any wrong doing with the tape and the refusal for any refund or trying to work out the matter.

 

 

I have a couple of questions to try and understand this better:

 

If you listed them in the PGM thread and the taped book was given a book in the vg/f range do you think his estimate of grade is incorrect?

 

You seemed to be in a hurry to grab the books out of the thread, even without scans, given the haste in which you took them. If the book is a vg/f as per the PGM thread, it sounds like the tape is a pet peeve of yours and not something that knocks it out of that grade. Did you ask the seller about tape and make the peeve known before committing to the purchase?

 

The second book was given a Fn-/Fn grade in the PGM thread, doesn't that offset any personal disappointment over the tape on the second copy and you wound up with books that, on average, exceeded the stated grades?

 

I am trying to understand this situation and, perhaps, help you to see the bright side of getting two books that, on average, are better than promised by the seller.

[jsilverjanet]

Hi,

 

"im not happy with this book, it has tape" and wants a full refund

 

 

 

If you listed them in the PGM thread and the taped book was given a book in the vg/f range do you think his estimate of grade is incorrect?

 

 

I am trying to understand this situation and, perhaps, help you to see the bright side of getting two books that, on average, are better than promised by the seller.

 

I never listed the book with tape on the thread. But I can list it here and let the group decide. If I am wrong and it's a VG/F then I will apologize publicly to Gambit for any wrongdoing.

 

 

[Balham's Finest]

Just to be clear - is your general policy not to offer returns for undisclosed tape, provided the book is at the stated grade?

 

I'm not asking whether you state this to buyers, just wondering whether you would take the same stance on an otherwise problem-free deal?

[GAMBIT]

This seems like one of those situations where the more discussion it entails the worse everyone will end up looking.

 

I agree.

 

He doesn't know how to handle or conduct himself, (no matter how he sounds in this thread, or switches things up) I think its obvious what he wanted all along (to get out of the deal because prices dropped and he couldn't re flip or whatever) And I have no interest dealing with him again.

 

i'm not going to go back and forth with this and waste everyone else's time (as he has done with mines, and now all of yours)

 

Just some kind advice, be cautious when dealing with this guy.

[comix4fun]

Hi,

 

"im not happy with this book, it has tape" and wants a full refund

 

 

 

If you listed them in the PGM thread and the taped book was given a book in the vg/f range do you think his estimate of grade is incorrect?

 

 

I am trying to understand this situation and, perhaps, help you to see the bright side of getting two books that, on average, are better than promised by the seller.

 

I never listed the book with tape on the thread. But I can list it here and let the group decide. If I am wrong and it's a VG/F then I will apologize publicly to Gambit for any wrongdoing.

 

 

 

Ah, I misunderstood then. I thought you listed them both.

[jsilverjanet]

This seems like one of those situations where the more discussion it entails the worse everyone will end up looking.

 

I agree.

 

He doesn't know how to handle or conduct himself, (no matter how he sounds in this thread, or switches things up) I think its obvious what he wanted all along (to get out of the deal because prices dropped and he couldn't re flip or whatever) And I have no interest dealing with him again.

 

i'm not going to go back and forth with this and waste everyone else's time (as he has done with mines, and now all of yours)

 

Just some kind advice, be cautious when dealing with this guy.

 

You seem to be making a lot of accusations without presenting any facts. The only thing I said about you is that you failed to disclose the tape. That's it. You mentioned that I posted the book with tape on the PGM thread - not true

 

I did want out of the deal but when you said no, I said I understood and moved on.

 

You said I wanted a full refund - I did not, I said I wanted a refund for the one book

 

While I understand your frustration on the matter, and how strongly you feel that I'm trying to get out of the deal for whatever reason, you have to acknowledge that regardless of that I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you hadn't sold me a book with tape on it that you failed to mention. You send me 2 books with no tape, we aren't having this conversation.

Edited August 14, 2013 by jsilverjanet

[jsilverjanet]

 

I never listed the book with tape on the thread. But I can list it here and let the group decide. If I am wrong and it's a VG/F then I will apologize publicly to Gambit for any wrongdoing.

 

 

 

Ah, I misunderstood then. I thought you listed them both.

 

If a book with tape is still considered VG/F then I will apologize in whatever fashion Gambit would like - whether here, in his Kudos, etc

 

here is the tape

 

 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2013 by jsilverjanet

[seanfingh]

 

Post pics of the whole book.

[Ryan.]

This seems like one of those situations where the more discussion it entails the worse everyone will end up looking.

 

I agree.

 

He doesn't know how to handle or conduct himself, (no matter how he sounds in this thread, or switches things up) I think its obvious what he wanted all along (to get out of the deal because prices dropped and he couldn't re flip or whatever) And I have no interest dealing with him again.

 

i'm not going to go back and forth with this and waste everyone else's time (as he has done with mines, and now all of yours)

 

Just some kind advice, be cautious when dealing with this guy.

 

You seem to be making a lot of accusations without presenting any facts. The only thing I said about you is that you failed to disclose the tape. That's it. You mentioned that I posted the book with tape on the PGM thread - not true

 

I did want out of the deal but when you said no, I said I understood and moved on.

 

You said I wanted a full refund - I did not, I said I wanted a refund for the one book

 

While I understand your frustration on the matter, and how strongly you feel that I'm trying to get out of the deal for whatever reason, you have to acknowledge that regardless of that I wouldn't have a leg to stand on if you hadn't sold me a book with tape on it that you failed to mention. You send me 2 books with no tape, we aren't having this conversation.

 

Let me ask you this: why did you want out of the deal before receiving the books? I suspect I know the answer but perhaps there is more to it than what I assume.

[comix4fun]

Then tell me how I can get my hands on that sweet 9 foot hot air balloon.

[Ryan.]

 

I never listed the book with tape on the thread. But I can list it here and let the group decide. If I am wrong and it's a VG/F then I will apologize publicly to Gambit for any wrongdoing.

 

 

 

Ah, I misunderstood then. I thought you listed them both.

 

If a book with tape is still considered VG/F then I will apologize in whatever fashion Gambit would like - whether here, in his Kudos, etc

 

here is the tape

 

 

That small piece of tape wouldn't bother me if the rest of the book graded out but that's just my opinion.

[Ryan.]

Quote fail.

[jsilverjanet]

 

Let me ask you this: why did you want out of the deal before receiving the books? I suspect I know the answer but perhaps there is more to it than what I assume.

 

I spent too much for them. I travel for work and have to pay my expenses up front. I had purchased other books that same week before I had received my assignment to head to Philly. Of the 4 transactions I made, that was the one that seemed less desirable. Plus 2 of the 4 had already told me they had received payment and were in process of shipping. Just trying to have money for work. When Gambit said no, I went ahead and sold a few of my books that I was going to move eventually and that's how I paid for my trip.

[jsilverjanet]

Post pics of the whole book.

 

added 4 pics, the tape, the front cover, back cover and also the tear on the bottom staple

 

If this is still considered VG/F by the group I will publicly apologize to Gambit in however he feels will best make up for the error on my part.

[jsilverjanet]

 

That small piece of tape wouldn't bother me if the rest of the book graded out but that's just my opinion.

 

added more pics to that post if you want to see the rest of the book and let me know what you think