Manufactured Gold

[Bullet123]

Just because someone won't hand you the smoking gun on a silver platter, doesn't mean they are speculating.

 

On the contrary, yes it does. There is no reason to hide the facts if what you truly want is for the hobby to cleanse itself. If you truly wanted change, simply name the source of your rumor ( because that is all it is until it is substantiated )

 

Simply let the facts speak for themselves.

[Red Hook]

We've been dead on target more often than not, Tim. Admit it.

 

I'm still waiting for an accounting of all these "baseless accusations" you and Bull keep referring to. So far, he's alluded to the "Eating with CGC" thread.

 

Wow.

 

I think carefully about what I post. I write what I mean. And I don't make a habit of just throwing out things that pop into my head.

 

This hobby has some problems right now. The only reason CGC had a clue that Jason Ewert was up to no good was because of the work done by the boardies. I honestly think they never would have caught him. And he's still be out there carving up the books and laughing at guys like me and you.

 

I don't think the world is going to end. I don't think the hobby is in danger of getting snuffed out. I don't think every dealer is "out to get me". Duh.

 

But the problem lies with some of the bigger players in the service side of the hobby, and running a close second to that is the complacency of collectors like you.

 

I can't figure for the life of me why a clearly intelligent cat like you completely refuses to admit that there are MAJOR ethical (if not legal) problems at Heritage. That there is a rampant crack-press-clean-resub cottage industy going on. And it is killing the hobby, as well as doing unknown damage to any number of books that took a long time getting to 2006 in the condition they originally did.

 

You keep saying that you know there are things wrong...but. Screw that. You obviously don't care, that much. You have obviously decided you can stomach it. Good for you. I'm happy for you. Everyone has different standards

 

But I don't like it. I won't accept it. And I and others won't be dissuaded from discussing in an adult manner ways we think the hobby needs to be improved. And stop trying to paint us as crackpot theorists who just think this stuff up for our own amusement. Get that? Knock it off.

 

I have said this before: CGC as a business, is one of the worst outfits I've ever seen at PR. They've created most of their own problems by totally inept, ill-timed and inadequate (or non-existant) responses to major issues that have arisen in the hobby.

 

CGC itself continues to fuel speculation of all sorts by stubbornly drawing the wagons into a circle. For the umpteenth time...."Speculation arises in an informational vacuum."

 

I've been extremely responsible about what I've discussed. If you have issues with what specific individuals have posted, take it up with them! But unless you have a list of topics you think I personally have been irresponsible about and post it, then please get out of my face.

 

 

Red

[THE_BEYONDER]

Just because someone won't hand you the smoking gun on a silver platter, doesn't mean they are speculating.

 

On the contrary, yes it does. There is no reason to hide the facts if what you truly want is for the hobby to cleanse itself. If you truly wanted change, simply name the source of your rumor ( because that is all it is until it is substantiated )

 

Simply let the facts speak for themselves.

 

As I told SB himself when labelled a "CGC basher", I stand behind everything I've ever said on these forums.

 

If what I'm claiming is untrue....let those I'm slandering take me to task on it .

[Flaming_Telepath]

Just because someone won't hand you the smoking gun on a silver platter, doesn't mean they are speculating.

 

On the contrary, yes it does. There is no reason to hide the facts if what you truly want is for the hobby to cleanse itself. If you truly wanted change, simply name the source of your rumor ( because that is all it is until it is substantiated )

 

Simply let the facts speak for themselves.

 

My source had specific work undertaken on a specific book before PCS was announced. The work was suggested by CGC...he has an invoice for the work.

 

My source demanded he not be named, partly because part of the process was signing a 'gag order'. My source continues to be just that...a source.

 

And if I named him, he would cease to be so...and he would be downright pissed-off with me..and rightfully so.

 

Does that qualify as a reason to keep schtum?

[Red Hook]

Simple, direct question posed to Steve Borock on October 14, 2005:

 

 

Steve,

 

Was a pre-screening service for pressing candidates ever offered to anyone over the last several years, and did Chris Freisen ever do pressing for customers while serving as CGC's restoration expert?

 

Brad

 

 

Still worth a good read.......

[Bullet123]

Just because someone won't hand you the smoking gun on a silver platter, doesn't mean they are speculating.

 

On the contrary, yes it does. There is no reason to hide the facts if what you truly want is for the hobby to cleanse itself. If you truly wanted change, simply name the source of your rumor ( because that is all it is until it is substantiated )

 

Simply let the facts speak for themselves.

 

My source had specific work undertaken on a specific book before PCS was announced. The work was suggested by CGC...he has an invoice for the work.

 

My source demanded he not be named, partly because part of the process was signing a 'gag order'. My source continues to be just that...a source.

 

And if I named him, he would cease to be so...and he would be downright pissed-off with me..and rightfully so.

 

Does that qualify as a reason to keep schtum?

 

No IMO it still doesn't.

[Red Hook]

...and that's where you, and many of us differ.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Have you signed this "Gag Order"?

 

A yes or no answer will suffice.

[Bullet123]

We've been dead on target more often than not, Tim. Admit it.

 

I'm still waiting for an accounting of all these "baseless accusations" you and Bull keep referring to. So far, he's alluded to the "Eating with CGC" thread.

 

Wow.

 

I think carefully about what I post. I write what I mean. And I don't make a habit of just throwing out things that pop into my head.

 

This hobby has some problems right now. The only reason CGC had a clue that Jason Ewert was up to no good was because of the work done by the boardies. I honestly think they never would have caught him. And he's still be out there carving up the books and laughing at guys like me and you.

 

I don't think the world is going to end. I don't think the hobby is in danger of getting snuffed out. I don't think every dealer is "out to get me". Duh.

 

But the problem lies with some of the bigger players in the service side of the hobby, and running a close second to that is the complacency of collectors like you.

 

I can't figure for the life of me why a clearly intelligent cat like you completely refuses to admit that there are MAJOR ethical (if not legal) problems at Heritage. That there is a rampant crack-press-clean-resub cottage industy going on.

 

I agree that there is a thriving crack-press-resub business out there. I just do not agree that Heritage is the ringleader of this business or that it is killing the hobby as you say it is

 

 

And it is killing the hobby, as well as doing unknown damage to any number of books that took a long time getting to 2006 in the condition they originally did.

 

You keep saying that you know there are things wrong...but. Screw that. You obviously don't care, that much. You have obviously decided you can stomach it. Good for you. I'm happy for you. Everyone has different standards

 

But I don't like it. I won't accept it. And I and others won't be dissuaded from discussing in an adult manner ways we think the hobby needs to be improved. And stop trying to paint us as crackpot theorists who just think this stuff up for our own amusement. Get that? Knock it off.

 

I have said this before: CGC as a business, is one of the worst outfits I've ever seen at PR. They've created most of their own problems by totally inept, ill-timed and inadequate (or non-existant) responses to major issues that have arisen in the hobby.

 

CGC itself continues to fuel speculation of all sorts by stubbornly drawing the wagons into a circle. For the umpteenth time...."Speculation arises in an informational vacuum."

 

I've been extremely responsible about what I've discussed. If you have issues with what specific individuals have posted, take it up with them! But unless you have a list of topics you think I personally have been irresponsible about and post it, then please get out of my face.

 

 

Red

[awe4one]

I'll give you that as to Bronze. Silver, I don't know.

 

You could be right concerning how much Silver has been manipulated. But I see the FF #3/10, JIM #83, Hulk Ann #1, BB #28 and other SA examples over the last year or so and it makes me wonder how widespread the practice is within the genre...

 

Jim

[drbanner]

Simple, direct question posed to Steve Borock on October 14, 2005:

Steve,

 

Was a pre-screening service for pressing candidates ever offered to anyone over the last several years, and did Chris Freisen ever do pressing for customers while serving as CGC's restoration expert?

 

Brad

 

Still worth a good read.......

 

It's probably in that thread, but I PM'ed Steve the same questions a few weeks before you did, and posted his response previously, here 'tis:

 

And FOR THE RECORD, YOU CAN EVEN POST THIS:

 

I have never called a client to tell them that the book I am grading should be sent to Chris for pressing, I very rarely even know who's book(s) I am grading. They way I (CGC) will make money is by grading the book and getting it out the door as soon as possible, with the best grade possible. With Friesens new service, we (CGC) still will not tell people, while books are sent to us, before or during the grading process, that their books should have anything done to them.

 

Have I had discussions with clients (large and small) after their comics have been graded at cons and over the phone where THEY ASKED if pressing would help, of course, I talk to collector's and dealer's all day long about every issue this hobby can think of.

[Red Hook]

Okay. You are right. It's not "killing" the hobby.

 

Can we agree on "hurting"?

 

Causing "mild concern"?

 

[awe4one]

Have you signed this "Gag Order"?

 

I "gag" everytime I see yet another example of Heritage resubs...

 

Jim

[Flaming_Telepath]

No IMO it still doesn't.

 

Good job you never worked for the Washington Post....

[awe4one]

Simple, direct question posed to Steve Borock on October 14, 2005:

Steve,

 

Was a pre-screening service for pressing candidates ever offered to anyone over the last several years, and did Chris Freisen ever do pressing for customers while serving as CGC's restoration expert?

 

Brad

 

Still worth a good read.......

 

It's probably in that thread, but I PM'ed Steve the same questions a few weeks before you did, and posted his response previously, here 'tis:

 

And FOR THE RECORD, YOU CAN EVEN POST THIS:

 

I have never called a client to tell them that the book I am grading should be sent to Chris for pressing, I very rarely even know who's book(s) I am grading. They way I (CGC) will make money is by grading the book and getting it out the door as soon as possible, with the best grade possible. With Friesens new service, we (CGC) still will not tell people, while books are sent to us, before or during the grading process, that their books should have anything done to them.

 

Have I had discussions with clients (large and small) after their comics have been graded at cons and over the phone where THEY ASKED if pressing would help, of course, I talk to collector's and dealer's all day long about every issue this hobby can think of.

 

The answer didn't address whether Frieson was pressing comics while still the "resto expert". All he does is say "he" didn't advocate comics be sent to Scott for pressing...

 

Jim

[drbanner]

The answer didn't address whether Frieson was pressing comics while still the "resto expert".

 

Yes, that remains the great unknown...

[batman_fan]

I can understand not wanting to be mentioned openly as a source. This hobby is very small and people can be very unforgiving. Most people don't want to discuss what goes on behind the scenes in an open forum like this.

[tth2]

This is my precise problem too. Like Bullet123, I had no comments in this thread when MasterChief was listing upgraded books (except when he misidentified a less transparent book as being the result of some paper restoration), or in previous threads when people identified upgraded books and where the upgraded book had been originally sold and was being resold. Or the threads about books showing up on Lewis Wayne's website. Them's the facts, and there is no arguing with them, and people's eyes should be opened to what is going on. I have no problem with that.

 

Even if you did, what could you possibly say?

I really don`t know if it`s worthwhile to try to answer you because I don`t know if you`re really interested in having a conversation or just baiting me. But I`ll give it a try against my better judgment.

 

I said what I said because some here seem to think that I`m Heritage`s defense counsel, and I just wanted to make it clear that I`m not. If there`s clear evidence about something going on with them or anybody, I am not going to defend that person or try to put a positive spin on things for them.

 

What I don't like is when people going beyond the facts to speculate in a harmful manner because there are no repercussions for them doing so. I will continue to protest when I see this happening, even if the "cool kids" like Brad think I'm a dork or teacher's pet for doing so (and broadcast their opinion of me at the top of their lungs). Bob and I keep raising first hand facts from our actual experiences in dealing with Heritage. These facts continue to be dismissed offhand because it doesn't fit the conspiracists' theories. Well, until they provide me with a smoking gun or a clear factual linkage, I will continue to protest the unfair speculation that goes on here.

 

You said exactly the same thing regarding Jason Ewert

So I believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty. So [embarrassing lack of self control] shoot me.

 

Anyways, if you go back to the Ewert trimming thread, please note who was the first to change the thread title to "Ewert and Brulato Guilty" or something to that effect, or one of the first to react in disbelief when he came on and tried to blame it on Marc Streuder.

 

If they end up proving with facts that their allegations were correct all along, I will gladly eat crow publicly. It certainly won't be the first time in my life I've done that.

But has anyone ever considered that with all the people that have worked at Heritage or CGC over the last 6 years, with quite a number of ex-employees now, if something really dirty was really going on, wouldn't SOMEONE have spilled the beans by now? If Jim Halperin was really the devil incarnate, wouldn't some angry ex-employee have said something by now? It's happened with tobacco companies, pharmaceutical companies, nuclear power companies, religious cults, etc. Why not here?

 

What possible benefit could one have for doing so?

Please tell me you`re not being serious in asking this question. Are you denying there have been whistleblowers in all of the examples I`ve just listed?

 

I didn't read anything that implied you were 'dirty', only that you were either attempting to protect your bottom-line...in denial...or both.

Considering that you`re the touchiest, most sensitive poster on these boards, it`s amazing how completely insensitive to innuendo when it`s raised regarding others.

[tth2]

I remember two years ago being personally hung, drawn and quartered by the masses for suggesting the existence of an in-house book manipulation arm of CGC. I was repeatedly told that, unless I could produce a confession, signed in blood by Steve Borock, I would not be believed and I had no right to besmirch the good name of the Sarasota boys.

 

Anyone remember PCS?

 

As far as I'm concerned, carry on with the educated speculation...

And this, Nick, is why the US Constitution is drafted the way it is, in reaction to the excesses of English views of civil liberties.

 

But what the hell, let`s kill `em all and let God sort them out. So a few innocent people`s reputations or businesses are ruined in the process, it`s a small price to pay to make sure the guilty are brought to justice.

[Red Hook]

Sorry Tim, but I think you already have the "Touchiest and Most Sensitive" category all wrapped up!