Manufactured Gold

[Foolkiller]

Because I, as a fellow collector enjoy meeting new people and hearing their stories about why they collect and how they got started. I also enjoy seeing books from genres that I do not collect as that sometimes gets me to take a look at things I either never knew existed or never gave a chance. Is it your mission to chase everyone away from the hobby with your scary bedtimes stories about the creepy dealers and shady collectors out there. If that is your mission, when you are the last one left, please shut the lights off on the way out the door.

 

I really had no intention of commenting on this thread but...

 

While I agree that over negativity can have a deleterious effect on the hobby, and can scare people away, education is better than blindness. I don't think that people are being scared off, what's being promoted is education for the sake of change of some of these deceptive and underhanded tactics designed to try and fleece people out of their money.

 

The balance on that is to promote the positive aspects of the hobby, recognize that most dealers are NOT out to try to rob you blind or that EVERYONE is pressing books to make a buck. There are noteworthy people who will do things to try and be greedy in the hobby -- and we should be publicly discussing that. We should not, however, speculate without proper evidence to back it up.

[Davenport]

What I find kind of troubling (and this is not directed at you, Brad) is how whenever someone trots out the Forbes article, they always neglect to mention Halperin's rebuttal even though they know it's out there.

 

If you are referring to me, I honestly didn't know it existed and If I read it in the past I forgot about it. It took 10 minutes of google searching to even find the Forbes article, as I could recall very little about it.

 

Cast your aspersions elsewhere.

 

I was referring to you in part, but mainly Kevin since he has referenced it several times in the past without mentioning the rebuttal, and I KNOW he knows it's out there. If you were not aware of the rebuttal, then you get a free pass. But Kevin cannot claim ignorance and so he is busted.

I didn't post the Forbes link, but yeah, I've referenced it in the past. And I'm aware that both the article and the rebuttal probably have spin. It's still an eye-opener.

 

Personally I still think it's amazing, almost unbelievable, that Halperin walked right through the front door of the graded comic world, became an investor. I remember reading both the CBG article on comic-keys and the Forbes article and thinking wtf? It didn't make much sense...all that CBG/CGC effort to point to the Snake, be aware of the Snake, we're watching out for you because there are Snakes out there!

Uh, what about that T-Rex over in the corner??? Oh, no worries, he just a marketing partner...

Unreal then. Unreal now.

[mica]

Personally ......

Quick post a rebuttal.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I kind of understand where Bullet123 is coming from.

 

On one hand we enjoy this hobby and try like heck to promote it to new blood.

 

On the other hand we tend to show more of the wrongdoings thus hurting the hobby we are trying to promote for new people and even seasoned collectors.

 

I've made thousands of posts promoting the positive aspects of this hobby. Great stories. Great covers. I've scanned complete books to share with others. I've started many a thread to get lurkers to join in on the fun.

 

Unfortunately, as the greed mongers up there efforts....I have less & less time to enjoy the hobby itself. I refuse to be complacent on these issues, even though it continues to spoil my involvement in the hobby I grew to love as a child.

 

I'll go back to reading comics & sharing feel good stories when the greed mongers are no longer running the show.

[Red Hook]

 

I really had no intention of commenting on this thread but...

 

While I agree that over negativity can have a deleterious effect on the hobby, and can scare people away, education is better than blindness. I don't think that people are being scared off, what's being promoted is education for the sake of change of some of these deceptive and underhanded tactics designed to try and fleece people out of their money.

 

The balance on that is to promote the positive aspects of the hobby, recognize that most dealers are NOT out to try to rob you blind or that EVERYONE is pressing books to make a buck. There are noteworthy people who will do things to try and be greedy in the hobby -- and we should be publicly discussing that. We should not, however, speculate without proper evidence to back it up.

 

I agree with every word you put down, Brian.

 

I have yet to see any dampening of the enthusiasm collectors on the boards display for the books themselves. The majority of players in the hobby are generally good citizens and on the up and up. Unfortunately, it is a couple of the largest players in the hobby who are causing most of the concern.

 

Red

[Red Hook]

 

Personally I still think it's amazing, almost unbelievable, that Halperin walked right through the front door of the graded comic world, became an investor. I remember reading both the CBG article on comic-keys and the Forbes article and thinking wtf? It didn't make much sense...all that CBG/CGC effort to point to the Snake, be aware of the Snake, we're watching out for you because there are Snakes out there!

Uh, what about that T-Rex over in the corner??? Oh, no worries, he just a marketing partner...

Unreal then. Unreal now.

 

 

W..W....W....WOW!

[Bullet123]

 

Because I, as a fellow collector enjoy meeting new people and hearing their stories about why they collect and how they got started. I also enjoy seeing books from genres that I do not collect as that sometimes gets me to take a look at things I either never knew existed or never gave a chance. Is it your mission to chase everyone away from the hobby with your scary bedtimes stories about the creepy dealers and shady collectors out there. If that is your mission, when you are the last one left, please shut the lights off on the way out the door.

 

You seem to feel that threads of the type you describe above cannot exist side by side with threads like these. You are wrong. They've existed side-by-side since the boards started. And there has been no noticeable dropoff in sales, prices realized or number of high grade books coming to market.

 

Most collectors are mature and realistic enough to absorb both the good and bad about the hobby and not go looking for the first exit to Lotus Eater Land.

 

I have no problem with these threads. When the thread sticks to factual information such as your side by side scans. It is when people go off and spew unsubstantiated venom aimed at either impuning ones integrity or reputation that it bothers me. You were looking for an example of what I am talking about. Because I do not archive the things I have issue with I can point to a recent thread that IMO is just the most ridiculous thing that has been talked about on these threads. That is the whole CGC employeees fraternizing with collectors thread and that CGC Forum dinners are a conflict of interest for them. I am one of the people who helped subsidize this past years SDCC Forum Dinner. It ended up costing me several thousand dollars to do this. I have submitted to CGC a total of less than fifty books since I started in this hobby but have over 1500 slabs( you do the math) I buy most of my books already slabbed. So what was my incentive to do this. Collecting. I get to meet face to face some of my fellow collectors in a quite and informal setting to talk collecting. Was it worth it to me? Absolutely. Do I think CGC is going to give me preferential treatment because I helped to subsidize a dinner. No and anyone that would accuse me of that which is what they do when they start a thread like that really does not even have any idea what they are talking about.

[FFB]

What I find kind of troubling (and this is not directed at you, Brad) is how whenever someone trots out the Forbes article, they always neglect to mention Halperin's rebuttal even though they know it's out there.

 

If you are referring to me, I honestly didn't know it existed and If I read it in the past I forgot about it. It took 10 minutes of google searching to even find the Forbes article, as I could recall very little about it.

 

Cast your aspersions elsewhere.

 

I was referring to you in part, but mainly Kevin since he has referenced it several times in the past without mentioning the rebuttal, and I KNOW he knows it's out there. If you were not aware of the rebuttal, then you get a free pass. But Kevin cannot claim ignorance and so he is busted.

I didn't post the Forbes link, but yeah, I've referenced it in the past. And I'm aware that both the article and the rebuttal probably have spin. It's still an eye-opener.

 

Personally I still think it's amazing, almost unbelievable, that Halperin walked right through the front door of the graded comic world, became an investor. I remember reading both the CBG article on comic-keys and the Forbes article and thinking wtf? It didn't make much sense...all that CBG/CGC effort to point to the Snake, be aware of the Snake, we're watching out for you because there are Snakes out there!

Uh, what about that T-Rex over in the corner??? Oh, no worries, he just a marketing partner...

Unreal then. Unreal now.

 

What I have seen repeatedly is you quoting the Forbes article as though everything in it is fact. What I do not recall ever seeing you do is address any of Halperin's rebuttal points head on. For that reason, I take everything you say about the Forbes article with a block of salt.

[THE_BEYONDER]

All:

 

Appreciate the discourse taking place. Great stuff. Never imaged the thread would take-off the way it has.

 

Thanks are in order to those who have provided meaningful input. The passion you display for the hobby is evident. Please continue providing insight, opinions, and if applicable, informational resources. Hopefully the reader will benefit from your effort.

 

As mentioned earlier, I have only scratched the surface. Another example will go up when the current dialog comes to a close.

 

--MC

 

[Red Hook]

Oy Gevalt! (I'm a New Yorker so my second language is Yiddish!)

 

I think you're probably the only one on the boards who took that discussion seriously for more than thirty seconds.

 

And by the way....it had nothing, zilch, nada, zero to do with what we are discussing in this thread.

 

I'm sorry but you left Common Sense Avenue and took the offroad to Just Plain Silly Street a couple of pages ago.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Red

[scottish]

 

I really had no intention of commenting on this thread but...

 

While I agree that over negativity can have a deleterious effect on the hobby, and can scare people away, education is better than blindness. I don't think that people are being scared off, what's being promoted is education for the sake of change of some of these deceptive and underhanded tactics designed to try and fleece people out of their money.

 

The balance on that is to promote the positive aspects of the hobby, recognize that most dealers are NOT out to try to rob you blind or that EVERYONE is pressing books to make a buck. There are noteworthy people who will do things to try and be greedy in the hobby -- and we should be publicly discussing that. We should not, however, speculate without proper evidence to back it up.

 

I agree with every word you put down, Brian.

 

I have yet to see any dampening of the enthusiasm collectors on the boards display for the books themselves. The majority of players in the hobby are generally good citizens and on the up and up. Unfortunately, it is a couple of the largest players in the hobby who are causing most of the concern.

 

Red

 

Ditto on these sentiments!

[scottish]

Oy Gevalt! (I'm a New Yorker so my second language is Yiddish!)

 

I think you're probably the only one on the boards who took that discussion seriously for more than thirty seconds.

 

And by the way....it had nothing, zilch, nada, zero to do with what we are discussing in this thread.

 

I'm sorry but you left Common Sense Avenue and took the offroad to Just Plain Silly Street a couple of pages ago.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Red

 

I have to say that I saw the CGC dinner & employee threads and it NEVER even entered my mind they could be anything more than a joke.

[Ze-man]

 

Because I, as a fellow collector enjoy meeting new people and hearing their stories about why they collect and how they got started. I also enjoy seeing books from genres that I do not collect as that sometimes gets me to take a look at things I either never knew existed or never gave a chance. Is it your mission to chase everyone away from the hobby with your scary bedtimes stories about the creepy dealers and shady collectors out there. If that is your mission, when you are the last one left, please shut the lights off on the way out the door.

 

You seem to feel that threads of the type you describe above cannot exist side by side with threads like these. You are wrong. They've existed side-by-side since the boards started. And there has been no noticeable dropoff in sales, prices realized or number of high grade books coming to market.

 

Most collectors are mature and realistic enough to absorb both the good and bad about the hobby and not go looking for the first exit to Lotus Eater Land.

 

I have no problem with these threads. When the thread sticks to factual information such as your side by side scans. It is when people go off and spew unsubstantiated venom aimed at either impuning ones integrity or reputation that it bothers me. You were looking for an example of what I am talking about. Because I do not archive the things I have issue with I can point to a recent thread that IMO is just the most ridiculous thing that has been talked about on these threads. That is the whole CGC employeees fraternizing with collectors thread and that CGC Forum dinners are a conflict of interest for them. I am one of the people who helped subsidize this past years SDCC Forum Dinner. It ended up costing me several thousand dollars to do this. I have submitted to CGC a total of less than fifty books since I started in this hobby but have over 1500 slabs( you do the math) I buy most of my books already slabbed. So what was my incentive to do this. Collecting. I get to meet face to face some of my fellow collectors in a quite and informal setting to talk collecting. Was it worth it to me? Absolutely. Do I think CGC is going to give me preferential treatment because I helped to subsidize a dinner. No and anyone that would accuse me of that which is what they do when they start a thread like that really does not even have any idea what they are talking about.

 

Bullet, I am confused. If nobody turned over stones, then everybody who has something to hide would remain hidden , as they would like it. I for one would rather wade through all the posts, good and bad, ugly, and walk away more informed about my hobby. Then sit with my nose in a funny book and let the people making the most money in our hobby tell me what I should, and should not worry about.

 

Open discussion is part of the process to figure out what is fact and what in reality is fiction. People here are not MAKING this stuff up. A good portion of the "scary bedtime stories" as you called them are real. The problems in this hobby, are real. Choosing to talk about what they are and how they might apply to real time people and events is where things can indeed get hairy. I agee threads should stick to the facts when trying to connect all the dots, but speculation s just part of the discussion process .

 

One person might have one piece of a puzzle. And another does not even know he might hold the keystone to the entire topic at hand until he reads about what everyone else has said on the subject.

 

Or one person might discover what they thought to be true, is actually not.

 

It works both ways. We all(as a group) should remember to be more open to both sides of every story.

 

 

 

Ze-

[Harvey Dude]

As mentioned earlier, I have only scratched the surface. Another example will go up when the current dialog comes to a close.

 

--MC

 

MasterChief

 

Keep up your postings. I find them very informational.

[Forbush-Man]

Bullet, I am confused. If nobody turned over stones, then everybody who has something to hide would remain hidden , as they would like it. I for one would rather wade through all the posts, good and bad, ugly, and walk away more informed about my hobby. Then sit with my nose in a funny book and let the people making the most money in our hobby tell me what I should, and should not worry about.

 

Good point, Kenny. I can remember when we had a thread titled something like "How does jason Ewert do it?". There were a number of people who were impressed/curious/amazed at how J.E. just kept coming out with these stellar books. Eventually we all found out.

[Davenport]

 

What I have seen repeatedly is you quoting the Forbes article as though everything in it is fact. What I do not recall ever seeing you do is address any of Halperin's rebuttal points head on. For that reason, I take everything you say about the Forbes article with a block of salt.

That's fine Scott, because I take everything I say with a block of salt too. Leaves room to learn more and correct my thinking/opinions.

 

Something that is still very unclear: Did he come through the door of pro-grading comics and invest, accept an invitation? Or did he build the door and everyone else walked through it?

 

Anything written out there that sheds some light how it all came to be? It seems like the kind of sandbox he'd want to create, it's so similar to slabbing coins.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Bullet, I am confused. If nobody turned over stones, then everybody who has something to hide would remain hidden , as they would like it. I for one would rather wade through all the posts, good and bad, ugly, and walk away more informed about my hobby. Then sit with my nose in a funny book and let the people making the most money in our hobby tell me what I should, and should not worry about.

 

Good point, Kenny. I can remember when we had a thread titled something like "How does jason Ewert do it?". There were a number of people who were impressed/curious/amazed at how J.E. just kept coming out with these stellar books. Eventually we all found out.

 

Sure. And how many of us got stoned for suggesting Ewert was up to no good from the very beginning?

[FFB]

 

What I have seen repeatedly is you quoting the Forbes article as though everything in it is fact. What I do not recall ever seeing you do is address any of Halperin's rebuttal points head on. For that reason, I take everything you say about the Forbes article with a block of salt.

That's fine Scott, because I take everything I say with a block of salt too. Leaves room to learn more and correct my thinking/opinions.

 

Something that is still very unclear: Did he come through the door of pro-grading comics and invest, accept an invitation? Or did he build the door and everyone else walked through it?

 

Anything written out there that sheds some light how it all came to be? It seems like the kind of sandbox he'd want to create, it's so similar to slabbing coins.

 

I think he owned his stock in the parent company long before CGC was ever created. He doesn't own CGC stock (CGC is a separate LLC), he owns stock in the parent company.

[Red Hook]

Bullet, I am confused. If nobody turned over stones, then everybody who has something to hide would remain hidden , as they would like it. I for one would rather wade through all the posts, good and bad, ugly, and walk away more informed about my hobby. Then sit with my nose in a funny book and let the people making the most money in our hobby tell me what I should, and should not worry about.

 

Good point, Kenny. I can remember when we had a thread titled something like "How does jason Ewert do it?". There were a number of people who were impressed/curious/amazed at how J.E. just kept coming out with these stellar books. Eventually we all found out.

 

Sure. And how many of us got stoned for suggesting Ewert was up to no good from the very beginning?

 

Well, I know that a few guy here have been stoned for as long as I can remember.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Post deleted by THE_BEYONDER