Manufactured Gold

[FFB]

I know I am a newbie here, but have dealt (and still do deal) with sportscards for the past 15++ years. Grading and resubmitting has been common practice for the majority of the time and it is actively encouraged by the various compaines. The companies offer such services as REVIEW (where a card graded by that company is reviewed for a possible bump), Cross-Over (where a card from another company is reviewed to be put in a holder at a higher/lower/same grade) and also the obvious continual cracking out and resubmitting. These services are advertised and understood. Grading is clearly objective and everyone does know it and do not complain when a card gets a higher grade. Sportscards are easily trackable as many high end ones are serial numbered these days. Plenty of trimming and card pressing takes place and it seems as though people don't seem to care as much as they should. I guess what I am trying to say is that millions upon millions of $$$ have been invested in graded sportscards and will continue to be and this information has not really changed how people spend. I have no idea how full disclosure will change the comic book field, but eventually I think things will be back to normal in some manner. It might be a whole new way of looking at things, but I think people will reinvest in "high grade" comics. Just my 2 cents.

 

The problem is, you can't compare comic book collectors with baseball card collectors, stamp collectors, or coin collectors. Comic collectors, by their nature, have a flair for melodrama that collectors in other fields grew out of by the eighth grade.

 

Now that is a warm and fuzzy description for your fellow collectors!

 

I presume you include yourself in that comment as well.

 

It's applicable to pretty much every comic collector I know, with very few exceptions. I'm not one of the exceptions and neither are you.

[nearmint]

From my limited interaction with him, I believe he is as convinced that there is nothing wrong with what he is doing as you are that there is.

 

Of course you do realize that this type of justification has been utilized to act in some very despicable ways in the anals of history.

 

I have little doubt Matt loves the hobby and the work but the fact that he may have convinced himself that he is doing nothing wrong with some of his actions doesn't make it so. Nor should it be used as a defense or a justification.

 

The bigger question is whether the community, not the individual, believes there is something wrong with a particular type of conduct. Time will tell.

 

I don't think that Matt feels the need to "defend" or "justify" his actions. Nor do I think he's convinced himself that he's doing nothing wrong. I think he honestly believes he's doing nothing wrong. There's a difference.

 

You're certainly right that time will tell.

[carcrawfordfan]

I do agree that if services like these were offered it should be noted, but we should be honest with ourselves and agree that grading is objectionable in theory. This would lead most any loglical person to believe that someone can crack out any comic and resubmit it with the intent of obtaining a higher grade. I do not think this is something that would have to be advertised or noted by any company. I am not in any way, shape or form talking about restoration/conservation in this context. That is a whole other can of worms.

[MasterChief]

That certainly is a quck turnaround to receive the book, perform the prep work for regrading, and then meet the auction deadline for submissions.

Do you think the color touch was missed or just removed from the book?

 

Since its posting, numerous ideas have been suggested as to what may or may not have happened in the case of Human Torch #7. Perhaps all have merit, maybe only a few do, or, I suppose, possibly none have merit. Other than the appearance of the copy being pressed, I honestly do not know what else is going on here, or what other treatment procedures may or may not have been performed.

 

Based on examining the auction images, can anyone be 100% certain that the top edge of the front cover is in fact where the color touch was, or was not located? Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t believe anyone can positively conclude then empathically state so one way or the other.

 

That reasoning leads me to a few questions I’ve been asking myself over and over again.

 

Was the copy specifically purchased with restoration removal in mind? If so, how could the purchaser be so certain that the copy was even a candidate for removal? Does someone just purchase a restored book for hundreds of dollars and then hope that when it finally shows up it fits the candidacy model and will re-grade with a blue label? Did the buyer have an understanding as to the degree and location of restoration prior to the auction and then bid accordingly?

 

I’m not sure what the answers are to these questions, but while addressing each I try to keep in mind the following facts: (1) the original auction was a live floor auction held in New York City on March 6-9, (2) the winning bid was by proxy submitted via mail/fax, and (3) the three-month turnaround time between the first and second auction.

[tth2]

I know I am a newbie here, but have dealt (and still do deal) with sportscards for the past 15++ years. Grading and resubmitting has been common practice for the majority of the time and it is actively encouraged by the various compaines. The companies offer such services as REVIEW (where a card graded by that company is reviewed for a possible bump), Cross-Over (where a card from another company is reviewed to be put in a holder at a higher/lower/same grade) and also the obvious continual cracking out and resubmitting. These services are advertised and understood. Grading is clearly objective and everyone does know it and do not complain when a card gets a higher grade. Sportscards are easily trackable as many high end ones are serial numbered these days. Plenty of trimming and card pressing takes place and it seems as though people don't seem to care as much as they should. I guess what I am trying to say is that millions upon millions of $$$ have been invested in graded sportscards and will continue to be and this information has not really changed how people spend. I have no idea how full disclosure will change the comic book field, but eventually I think things will be back to normal in some manner. It might be a whole new way of looking at things, but I think people will reinvest in "high grade" comics. Just my 2 cents.

 

The problem is, you can't compare comic book collectors with baseball card collectors, stamp collectors, or coin collectors. Comic collectors, by their nature, have a flair for melodrama that collectors in other fields grew out of by the eighth grade.

ARE NOT! YOU SUCK! YOUR WORDS ARE EVIDENCE THAT WE'RE PART OF A DECAYING SOCIETY SPIRALING INTO OBLIVION! MARK MY WORDS, THE END IS NIGH!

[THE_BEYONDER]

I know I am a newbie here, but have dealt (and still do deal) with sportscards for the past 15++ years. Grading and resubmitting has been common practice for the majority of the time and it is actively encouraged by the various compaines. The companies offer such services as REVIEW (where a card graded by that company is reviewed for a possible bump), Cross-Over (where a card from another company is reviewed to be put in a holder at a higher/lower/same grade) and also the obvious continual cracking out and resubmitting. These services are advertised and understood. Grading is clearly objective and everyone does know it and do not complain when a card gets a higher grade. Sportscards are easily trackable as many high end ones are serial numbered these days. Plenty of trimming and card pressing takes place and it seems as though people don't seem to care as much as they should. I guess what I am trying to say is that millions upon millions of $$$ have been invested in graded sportscards and will continue to be and this information has not really changed how people spend. I have no idea how full disclosure will change the comic book field, but eventually I think things will be back to normal in some manner. It might be a whole new way of looking at things, but I think people will reinvest in "high grade" comics. Just my 2 cents.

 

The problem is, you can't compare comic book collectors with baseball card collectors, stamp collectors, or coin collectors. Comic collectors, by their nature, have a flair for melodrama that collectors in other fields grew out of by the eighth grade.

 

You call it a flair for melodrama, whereas most of us would call it "a passion for the hobby". .

[Forbush-Man]

I know I am a newbie here, but have dealt (and still do deal) with sportscards for the past 15++ years. Grading and resubmitting has been common practice for the majority of the time and it is actively encouraged by the various compaines. The companies offer such services as REVIEW (where a card graded by that company is reviewed for a possible bump), Cross-Over (where a card from another company is reviewed to be put in a holder at a higher/lower/same grade) and also the obvious continual cracking out and resubmitting. These services are advertised and understood. Grading is clearly objective and everyone does know it and do not complain when a card gets a higher grade. Sportscards are easily trackable as many high end ones are serial numbered these days. Plenty of trimming and card pressing takes place and it seems as though people don't seem to care as much as they should. I guess what I am trying to say is that millions upon millions of $$$ have been invested in graded sportscards and will continue to be and this information has not really changed how people spend. I have no idea how full disclosure will change the comic book field, but eventually I think things will be back to normal in some manner. It might be a whole new way of looking at things, but I think people will reinvest in "high grade" comics. Just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

The problem is, you can't compare comic book collectors with baseball card collectors, stamp collectors, or coin collectors. Comic collectors, by their nature, have a flair for melodrama that collectors in other fields grew out of by the eighth grade.

ARE NOT! YOU SUCK! YOUR WORDS ARE EVIDENCE THAT WE'RE PART OF A DECAYING SOCIETY SPIRALING INTO OBLIVION! MARK MY WORDS, THE END IS NIGH!

 

I'm telling my Mom on you!!!

[comic_lot]

From my limited interaction with him, I believe he is as convinced that there is nothing wrong with what he is doing as you are that there is.

 

Of course you do realize that this type of justification has been utilized to act in some very despicable ways in the anals of history.

 

Ouch

[Mr. Zipper]

... in the anals of history.

 

[blazingbob]

I'd be more than happy to take over the selling of Harry's books.

 

Sadly, Harry's books have become "old", they need to be "new arrivals" again

 

And for the record I did offer to buy a lot of Harry's books at a discount but he's holding out for his price.

[blazingbob]

The area that would "giveaway" your staple replacement is the indentations not matching with the new staples.

[burntboy]

 

 

 

Well, he makes a living off of selling, pressing, and restoring comics, so you're right, it is about the money. But that doesn't preclude a passion for comics.

 

From my limited interaction with him, I believe he is as convinced that there is nothing wrong with what he is doing as you are that there is.

 

I understand his point of view, and I understand your point of view.

 

well stated, Jeff.................

 

i tend to agree with your observations, especially the last point - being able to understand different points of view................

[burntboy]

From my limited interaction with him, I believe he is as convinced that there is nothing wrong with what he is doing as you are that there is.

 

Of course you do realize that this type of justification has been utilized to act in some very despicable ways in the anals of history.

 

Ouch

 

my thought, exactly..............

[FFB]

I do agree that if services like these were offered it should be noted, but we should be honest with ourselves and agree that grading is objectionable in theory.

 

In order to agree with what you've said, I've got to understand it first. And I don't.

[goldust40]

I do agree that if services like these were offered it should be noted, but we should be honest with ourselves and agree that grading is objectionable in theory.

 

In order to agree with what you've said, I've got to understand it first. And I don't.

 

"People should be made aware of what services are at their disposal, although this is dependent on everyone understanding the need for sharing the same objective grading standards."

 

[carcrawfordfan]

What do you not understand? Perhaps i can clarify.

[Davenport]

What do you not understand? Perhaps i can clarify.

It's probably the word "objectionable" (obnoxious, unpleasant). Do you mean "subjective" (modified by individual bias)?

[carcrawfordfan]

I guess I misstated what I was saying. After re-reading what I wrote it doesn't sound right. I probably should't make posts at 230AM. Anyways I would have to say that grading the same book 50 times will probably never yield the same result 50 times. I do not think CGC should have to publicly state that persons may resubmit books (that have not been tampered with) and try for a higher grade. It is something that is understood. IF they had some sort of review service with PGX books, than I would assume it would be a service that would be stated publicly. I do agree that CGC should state a policy on RESTORATION one way or another.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

I don't think that Matt feels the need to "defend" or "justify" his actions. Nor do I think he's convinced himself that he's doing nothing wrong. I think he honestly believes he's doing nothing wrong. There's a difference.

 

I believe that is the definition of a sociopath.

[nearmint]

I don't think that Matt feels the need to "defend" or "justify" his actions. Nor do I think he's convinced himself that he's doing nothing wrong. I think he honestly believes he's doing nothing wrong. There's a difference.

 

I believe that is the definition of a sociopath.

 

If that's the definition of a sociopath, then 99% of the population are sociopaths, making it the norm.