The monthly why you should use CGC instead of PGX thread with PICs

[KryptoSpidey]

here's my one shot i took a few weeks ago after reading the other thread about this topic...note the page quality difference...and $1000 price difference.

[DR.X]

 

DRX

[Mr 9.8]

I have some Miracleman #1's PGX'd that I'm thinking about sending to CGC. Would you recomend sending them in the PGX case or take them out?

 

To be honest, I felt a little paranoid, so I cracked them out, cut off the PGX label and shipped them in the inner well. I KNOW CGC is impartial, but I couldn't help but feel, that CGC might slam the grade if I left the labels on. I know probably paranoia, but...

That's sorta the way I feel. I think I'll take them out and send them.

[sterlingcomics]

I've had two PGX/CGC reslab experience..both non-key bronze books

 

1. PGX 9.6 -> CGC 9.0...Poor cut on bottom was only defect

2. PGX 9.4 -> CGC 9.6

2. PGX 9.2 as of yet not sent to CGC

[RockMyAmadeus]

You know what these examples prove? That grading is not a exact science . It just proves that all grading is subjective to ones own oppionion .If you took one book and let 100 people grade it I'd bet that you would have at least 50 different grade s on that 1 book .

 

That's false.

 

If you got 100 competent, experienced graders, you might get 3 different grades at most, maybe 4.

 

And those grades would all be within 1/4-1/2 of each other.

 

That is, 25 will grade it a 6.5, 45 will grade it a 7.0, 30 will grade it a 7.5...maybe a tiny handful will grade it 6.0 or 8.0, but the grouping will be centered around a grade, in this case, 7.0.

 

It is this type of "subjectivity" which is acceptable, and healthy, in the hobby.

 

You will not get 3 2.0s , 5 9.6s, 7 4.5s, 13 8.5s, etc. Those people have no idea what they're doing.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Unless you have an incredible memory or check records beforehand - I doubt anyone on the boards would grade every book in their collection the same way twice.

 

Well..I would, but that's because I take anal to an artform......

 

[Beau]

Unless you have an incredible memory or check records beforehand - I doubt anyone on the boards would grade every book in their collection the same way twice.

 

Well..I would, but that's because I take anal to an artform......

 

 

If ever there was a sentence to take out of context...

[ChasingKingKirby]

Unless you have an incredible memory or check records beforehand - I doubt anyone on the boards would grade every book in their collection the same way twice.

 

Well..I would, but that's because I take anal to an artform......

 

 

If ever there was a sentence to take out of context...

 

[COI]

Unless you have an incredible memory or check records beforehand - I doubt anyone on the boards would grade every book in their collection the same way twice.

 

Well..I would, but that's because I take anal to an artform......

 

 

That's what she said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

See, I took the high road and kept it hetero.

[DrWatson]

Unless you have an incredible memory or check records beforehand - I doubt anyone on the boards would grade every book in their collection the same way twice.

 

Well..I would, but that's because I take anal to an artform......

 

 

That's what she said.

 

 

 

 

 

 

See, I took the high road and kept it hetero.

You are a better man than me.

[Trey Cannon]

You know what these examples prove? That grading is not a exact science . It just proves that all grading is subjective to ones own oppionion .If you took one book and let 100 people grade it I'd bet that you would have at least 50 different grade s on that 1 book .

 

That's false.

 

If you got 100 competent, experienced graders, you might get 3 different grades at most, maybe 4.

 

And those grades would all be within 1/4-1/2 of each other.

 

That is, 25 will grade it a 6.5, 45 will grade it a 7.0, 30 will grade it a 7.5...maybe a tiny handful will grade it 6.0 or 8.0, but the grouping will be centered around a grade, in this case, 7.0.

 

It is this type of "subjectivity" which is acceptable, and healthy, in the hobby.

 

You will not get 3 2.0s , 5 9.6s, 7 4.5s, 13 8.5s, etc. Those people have no idea what they're doing.

 

I agree that is True I would say that most competent graders would be within at least 2 points or less of each otherHowever the point was you still will get different grades no matter how close those grades are

a good example take a ASM #129 that is CGC 9.4 with White pages who's to say that to you that book isn't a 9.6? or a 9.2? on the higher grades I think the grades are more subjective. I mean why pay the extra money for a 9.8 ASM #129 when the 9.6 you have maybe a 9.8 . I Ihear that CGC has three graders on each book that grades it and whos to say that at least one of those graders didn't give it a 9.8 while the other two gave it a 9.6? I'm not knocking on CGc or PGX or any competent grader I am just saying that You will have different oppinions of a grade especially Higher graded books. Maybe we could talk someone (with money to blow) into sending in the same book 5 times to CGC and see if it gets the same grade everytime assuming its not damaged when they pop it out I would be interested to see what happens

[mrwoogieman]

Thanks for posting your little experiment. (thumbs u

[thehumantorch]

Unless you have an incredible memory or check records beforehand - I doubt anyone on the boards would grade every book in their collection the same way twice.

 

Well..I would, but that's because I take anal to an artform......

 

 

If ever there was a sentence to take out of context...

 

You're a funny guy beau.

[conditionfreak]

Great info on this thread, by the original poster. It illustates to me what some have already mentioned. Grading is subjective and can and WILL change on the same book, when graded by different professionals on different days.

 

I do want to say that money wise, overall, it seems that buying select PGX graded books paid off in the long run.

 

I also want to say that the premise the original poster has throughout this thread is that CGC got it right and PGX did not. Why do "we" assume that? Couldn't it be that PGX got it more right and CGC got it less right? CGC has in the past designated books as being trimmed that the submitters swear they purchased off the stand as OO, and no trimming was possible in their opinions.

 

Going with the premise that CGC is the final authority in most cases (there are of course exceptions and mistakes by any and all companies), and that CGC gets it right when they disagree with PGX, is a mistaken placement of confidence.

 

But, all of my PGX books will be eventually CGC slabbed. But not because of confidence in CGC or lack thereof in PGX. Strictly because of future sales by my heirs. Heritage does not accept PGX books (as I understand it, they are associated in business with CGC).

 

Oh. One final point. If you think that CGC personal do not submit their own books to CGC to be graded, you are sadly mistaken.

[Superman2006]

Unless you have an incredible memory or check records beforehand - I doubt anyone on the boards would grade every book in their collection the same way twice.

 

Well..I would, but that's because I take anal to an artform......

 

 

 

 

[mrwoogieman]

Unless you have an incredible memory or check records beforehand - I doubt anyone on the boards would grade every book in their collection the same way twice.

 

Well..I would, but that's because I take anal to an artform......

 

 

 

 

 

<---- patent pending

[benz]

Great info on this thread, by the original poster. It illustates to me what some have already mentioned. Grading is subjective and can and WILL change on the same book, when graded by different professionals on different days.

 

I do want to say that money wise, overall, it seems that buying select PGX graded books paid off in the long run.

 

I also want to say that the premise the original poster has throughout this thread is that CGC got it right and PGX did not. Why do "we" assume that? Couldn't it be that PGX got it more right and CGC got it less right? CGC has in the past designated books as being trimmed that the submitters swear they purchased off the stand as OO, and no trimming was possible in their opinions.

 

Going with the premise that CGC is the final authority in most cases (there are of course exceptions and mistakes by any and all companies), and that CGC gets it right when they disagree with PGX, is a mistaken placement of confidence.

 

But, all of my PGX books will be eventually CGC slabbed. But not because of confidence in CGC or lack thereof in PGX. Strictly because of future sale s by my heirs. Heritage does not accept PGX books (as I understand it, they are associated in business with CGC).

 

Oh. One final point. If you think that CGC personal do not submit their own books to CGC to be graded, you are sadly mistaken.

 

true?

[cloudofwit]

As for PQ, does anyone know if all 3 graders also submit PQ designations? If not, and it's only the final grader, then maybe that could account for alleged inconsistency? :shrug:

[kimik]

 

Based on past reports, I'd thought it went something like this;

 

9.0+ - might go UP a notch

 

6.0 - 8.5 - perhaps in the ballpark

 

below 6.0 - going down.....

 

Hmmmmm? Seems like you got the cliff notes of this little story.

 

It depends on the submission date. I sent in 2 groups in November 2005 from an OO stash/hoard I picked up (there were also multiple Conan #1-5, Silver Surfer, Sub-Mariner #1-10 and a few others that were PGX graded 9.0 - 9.4 that the seller had). Most of the books that did not sell after two listings on eBay were sent to CGC and jumped up by 1 to 2 grades (I can only recall the two TOS for certain).The leftovers that were deemed to be "lower" grade than these issues were graded and ranged from 9.2 to 9.6 fist submission to CGC.

 

Here is a list of the books and grades to keep an eye out for based on a November/December 2005 grading date (all of the books have white page as well):

 

Group 1

 

AMAZING ADV.

1 9.2

2 9.0

6 9.2

ASTONISHING TALES 1 9.0

CAPTAIN SAVAGE

11 9.2

12 9.4

14 9.0

15 9.2

16 9.4

16 9.4

18 9.2

CAPTAIN MARVEL

7 8.5

7 8.5

12 9.0

13 8.5

30 8.5

CHAMBER OF DARKNESS 1 9.4

7 8.5

DAREDEVIL 21 7.5

30 9.2

50 9.4

52 9.4

61 9.0

JIM 83 9.4 (Golden Record)

MARVEL PREMIERE 2 9.2

NICK FURY 5 9.6

NICK FURY 12 9.4

NICK FURY 14 9.4

SUB MARINER 7 9.0

9 9.8

19 9.0

 

Group 2

ASTONISHING TALES

1 9.0

7 8.5

CAP MARVEL 12 9.2

CAP SAVAGE 9 9.4

DAREDEVIL

47 9.2

51 9.0

53 9.0

56 9.2

FF 118 8.5

FANTASY MASTERPIECES 7 7.5

HAWK AND DOVE 3 9.0

IRON MAN

7 8.0

8 9.0

12 9.0

ANN. 1 9.4

& SUBMARINER 1 8.5

NICK FURY 18 9.2

NEW GODS 3 8.5

SS 16 8.5

SUPERBOY 183 9.4

TALES OF SUSPENSE

46 7.0 (came back as a 7.5 from CGC)

47 7.0 (stayed as a 7.0 from CGC)

50 8.0

51 9.0

52 8.0

56 8.5

64 9.0

65 7.5

66 8.5

TALES OF ASGARD 1 9.0

 

However, it now looks like their recent grading is way off: Tales of Suspense #63 9.0

 

[sterlingcomics]

Folks, don't forget to include OldGuy's thread on all of the restored slabs coming back...that is a significant risk that was included here but remains far more probable than the shifts in grade and PQ.