Fellow Copper Age collectors, is MIRACLEMAN a good investment?

[followtheleader]

A few reasons I say no:

 

1. Marvel taking it over (bound to ruin it). I really hope I'm wrong.

2. I think the prices have peaked (at least for quite some time). If you can get 9.8 copies on the cheap, that's a different story. But it's not likely going to happen. Which means you will pay what it is worth and it wouldn't appreciate any time in the near future. Now, if I'm wrong about #1, then it would change this as people would like to go back and see what is up with the Gaiman and Moore stuff.

 

 

If anything, it might be worth it to grab the "key" Miracleman issues in 9.8 for a decent price. 23 & 24 are biggees. 15 seems a little common to me, but it's a desirable book based on the story. First 9 are almost pointless to "invest" in.

 

Got to wonder if the magazines might be a slightly different story in the future.

 

Pat

[MR.COMICBOOK]

This will be the time to sell and not buy,there will be a spike in interest now with the coming of Marvelman to the Marvel Universe.You gotta think there will be one huge Marvelman Omnibus that will reprint the whole 1980`s series upcoming, also imagine Marvelman joining the Avengers.I heard Marvel has huge plans for this character,where talking movies and videogames. he will be there Superman.

[RockMyAmadeus]

OK...I checked it out last night.

 

Unfortunately, I did not save any of my MSU or Beau Smith emails.

 

The xerox copies of the MM3D-2D that MSU sent me do not have any sigs on them at all. Now, they only sent me copies of the cover, the interior cover/indicia, and the first 2 pages of the book.

 

No sigs anywhere. It looks exactly the same as as the regualr 3D version, just the panel pages do not have the 3D effect.

 

The interior cover is exactly the same as the 3D version, even the indicia (as noted in OS). It even has the house ad for the 2D version.

 

For reference, my Laser Eraser & Pressbutton 2D-3D IS signed and numbered by cat.

 

Exactly - and the copy held in the UK also is also signed & numbered by Yronwode. One ad page is different too.

 

There are therefore quite likely to be 2 kinds of the 2D. A mail-away signed version and a vanilla 2D version.

 

I wonder if Al Stoltz's copy is signed?

 

Where is the sig on the issue? Is it on the inside cover or first page? As I said, the copies that MSU sent were only a few, and not the entire issue.

 

I'll try and get scans of what I have and get them posted here.

 

RMA - can we see scans of your copy?

 

Found it.

 

 

 

Been looking through ads of the era...many, many 3-D "2-D's" for sale, $5 each...MM says "sold out"....

[chrisco37]

Thanks for posting.

 

That is definitely a different interior than what I got from MSU (I know, I know....I still have to scan my stuff up).

 

What does the front cover to yours look like?

[RockMyAmadeus]

The 2-D cover is identical to the regular 3-D.

[chrisco37]

Now I'm wondering if what I got from MSU all those years ago is correct.

 

The interior FC scans I got from them have the "House Ad" for the 2D version. But, totally absent from your copy.

 

When I spoke/emailed with MSU, I know they were looking at the correct book b/c they said there was no 3D effect on the pages. That's what he scanned and sent to me.

 

They've (MSU) updated their website, so it's alot different than it was when I started the project. Here's a link to the library search that brings up the particular issue:

 

Wish it had scans of the issue

[EwanUK]

OK...I checked it out last night.

 

Unfortunately, I did not save any of my MSU or Beau Smith emails.

 

The xerox copies of the MM3D-2D that MSU sent me do not have any sigs on them at all. Now, they only sent me copies of the cover, the interior cover/indicia, and the first 2 pages of the book.

 

No sigs anywhere. It looks exactly the same as as the regualr 3D version, just the panel pages do not have the 3D effect.

 

The interior cover is exactly the same as the 3D version, even the indicia (as noted in OS). It even has the house ad for the 2D version.

 

For reference, my Laser Eraser & Pressbutton 2D-3D IS signed and numbered by cat.

 

Exactly - and the copy held in the UK also is also signed & numbered by Yronwode. One ad page is different too.

 

There are therefore quite likely to be 2 kinds of the 2D. A mail-away signed version and a vanilla 2D version.

 

I wonder if Al Stoltz's copy is signed?

 

Where is the sig on the issue? Is it on the inside cover or first page? As I said, the copies that MSU sent were only a few, and not the entire issue.

 

I'll try and get scans of what I have and get them posted here.

 

RMA - can we see scans of your copy?

 

Found it.

 

 

 

Been looking through ads of the era...many, many 3-D "2-D's" for sale, $5 each...MM says "sold out"....

 

Absolutely fascinating to see this (do you want to sell it?) and consistent with what the UK owner of the Miracleman 2D told me about his copy. They were definitely signed by Cat Yronwode in red ink. The UK copy is 92/100 and the owner mailed away for it in late 1985.

 

Chris, I think the museum copy may have been either a vanilla 2D (i.e. an unsigned 2D version) or a normal 3D.

 

Can anyone persuade Al Stotlz to confirm his copy? I understand he also has other Eclipse 2Ds.

 

 

[EwanUK]

And getting back to the main question... I'm alarmed at how many 9.8s are now in circulation and how prices have dropped on most.

 

Only 23 & 24 are holding value.

 

But raw runs are still sellling very well.

 

It's still hot and I'm sure will get a lot hotter.

 

I think CGC will shortly allow a 9.9 MM 15 or even MM 24.

 

You know in all my years of collecting I have never lost my love of this series.

[RockMyAmadeus]

OK...I checked it out last night.

 

Unfortunately, I did not save any of my MSU or Beau Smith emails.

 

The xerox copies of the MM3D-2D that MSU sent me do not have any sigs on them at all. Now, they only sent me copies of the cover, the interior cover/indicia, and the first 2 pages of the book.

 

No sigs anywhere. It looks exactly the same as as the regualr 3D version, just the panel pages do not have the 3D effect.

 

The interior cover is exactly the same as the 3D version, even the indicia (as noted in OS). It even has the house ad for the 2D version.

 

For reference, my Laser Eraser & Pressbutton 2D-3D IS signed and numbered by cat.

 

Exactly - and the copy held in the UK also is also signed & numbered by Yronwode. One ad page is different too.

 

There are therefore quite likely to be 2 kinds of the 2D. A mail-away signed version and a vanilla 2D version.

 

I wonder if Al Stoltz's copy is signed?

 

Where is the sig on the issue? Is it on the inside cover or first page? As I said, the copies that MSU sent were only a few, and not the entire issue.

 

I'll try and get scans of what I have and get them posted here.

 

RMA - can we see scans of your copy?

 

Found it.

 

 

 

Been looking through ads of the era...many, many 3-D "2-D's" for sale, $5 each...MM says "sold out"....

 

Absolutely fascinating to see this (do you want to sell it?)

 

I would never sell it, as it is essentially irreplaceable.

 

I would, however, be willing to trade for something equally irreplaceable that I do not have.

 

After all...LE&PB IS an Alan Moore series.

 

and consistent with what the UK owner of the Miracleman 2D told me about his copy. They were definitely signed by Cat Yronwode in red ink. The UK copy is 92/100 and the owner mailed away for it in late 1985.

 

Chris, I think the museum copy may have been either a vanilla 2D (i.e. an unsigned 2D version) or a normal 3D.

 

Can anyone persuade Al Stotlz to confirm his copy? I understand he also has other Eclipse 2Ds.

 

 

I look for the other 2Ds whenever possible, but it was sheer luck that I was able to obtain this one.

 

I really think they may have been destroyed, for the most part.

[chrisco37]

Can you tell us the story of how you obtained your copy?

 

I will talk to Al at B'more Con and see if I can get any additional information from him regarding the book. I don't think it's "officially" for sale with him, so he's never had the book in tow when I've seen him.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sure, I bought it on ebay....I just happened to be looking at this one seller's listings for other stuff, and it was total luck that he also listed this book during that time, or I never would have seen it. He listed a whole bunch of Copper and Modern keys, which I love buying, so it was dumb luck to be in the right place at the right time.

 

How do you search for such a thing? "3-d 2-d"? How do you even LIST such a thing so people can find it? And...would the seller know what they have most of the time?

 

My snipe bid was some absolutely ridiculous amount.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Do you guys want a pic of the first page of the 3-d for comparison?

[chrisco37]

Do you guys want a pic of the first page of the 3-d for comparison?

 

Not necessary (for me at least). The first page is burned into my brain forever from looking for "hidden 2D" copies at shows.

 

 

So, you bought the 2D on eBay? Nice! When was this? Recent or years ago? Ewan has told me about a mythical eBay sale from years ago. I wonder if it was you?

[Mr 9.8]

Do you guys want a pic of the first page of the 3-d for comparison?

If it's not to much trouble for you. I've never seen the inside of the 2-D version of the 3-D issue.

[EwanUK]

Do you guys want a pic of the first page of the 3-d for comparison?

 

Not necessary (for me at least). The first page is burned into my brain forever from looking for "hidden 2D" copies at shows.

 

 

So, you bought the 2D on eBay? Nice! When was this? Recent or years ago? Ewan has told me about a mythical eBay sale from years ago. I wonder if it was you?

 

The story of my interest with the 2D started with a chap called Mike Browning who is an overstreet advisor and I think an occassional boarder here. I think the conversation was originally sparked by discussion on the Gold Edition which Mike was really pushing (he reported the $1,500 sale on the front page of an issue of Comics Buyers Guide).

 

This must have been 2002 of thereabouts.

 

At about the same time, as a total co-incidence, a 2D was listed listed on ebay. I distinctly remember this as the auction clearly stated "this is the 2D version" in the text. The reason why I didn't bid was the guy was selling to US only (and this was before I knew other collectors to buy for me) so I emailed Mike alerting him to the auction.... (I'm a generous guy!)

 

However, Mike missed it and it sold to another US guy for, I think, $150. There was quite a bit of bidding on it suggesting it's in the hands of a collector. It's out there somewhere...

 

So that's copy no.1."ebay 2002"

 

Chris and I then began communicating in 2003 or 2004 and we eventually got it listed in Overstreet based on the MSU version.

 

So that's copy no.2 "MSU" which may or may not be a signed one.

 

There is one UK Miracleman collector with a far, far better collection than mine (he wrote the Marvelman article in Alter Ego no.87). The chap has a huge Miracleman and Marvelman OA collection and he definitely has a copy of the 2D - and provided the additional detail I've shared here and a few others i haven't yet released (hey, got to have some advantage in my search). His copy is no.92 of 100. He will not sell it to me - and I don't blame him either. He mentioned that he suspects many were destroyed in the flood which hit Eclipse.

 

So that's copy no.3 "UK copy"

 

Then finally Al Stoltz reported he's found a copy in Feb 2008. I also asked Al to sell but he wouldn't. If I recall he's got several of the other Eclipse 2Ds too.

 

So that's copy no.4 "Al Stotlz copy"

 

I think it'd be cool to have a full list. OS has some mentions them but hasn't the full list I'm sure.

 

The 2Ds are super, super rare.

 

By the way, I've offered well over $1,000 for a copy of the MM one.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Do you guys want a pic of the first page of the 3-d for comparison?

 

Not necessary (for me at least). The first page is burned into my brain forever from looking for "hidden 2D" copies at shows.

 

 

So, you bought the 2D on eBay? Nice! When was this? Recent or years ago? Ewan has told me about a mythical eBay sale from years ago. I wonder if it was you?

 

No, he was talking about the MM 2-D...I actually SAW that auction, and LAUGHED at the high bid, which was something in the neighborhood of $150.

 

That was in 2002? 2003?

 

I did the same thing to a Vengeance of Vampi #1 Royal Blue that sold for $178 around the same time. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Also limited to 100 copies, it creates a LOT of confusion with that stupid "aqua" book. I truly wonder how many (if any) Royal Blues got lost in the "aqua" mix because they are both second printings....

 

I have since learned the error of my ways in underestimating the truly scarce, no matter WHAT age it is from. I spent $100 on my Vengeance of Vampi #1 RB, and have not regretted a penny of it.

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

He mentioned that he suspects many were destroyed in the flood which hit Eclipse.

 

 

This is what I have suspected for a long time, too....

 

BUT...

 

And wouldn't you know it, I can't find it, but just in the last week, I found an Eclipse book that had their back issues for sale list, and included a number of the 3-D 2-Ds for $5 each, but the MM was sold out.

 

This doesn't prove anything, as the ones still in stock may have been spared in the flood of '86, or they hadn't been printed yet (which is definitely the case for some) and it was just the MMs that were destroyed as far as 2-Ds go...

 

But it also may mean that the MM 2-Ds actually WERE sold out prior to that point. Keeping in mind that the 3-D issue came out around...mmm...let's say October of 1985 (book is dated Dec 1985), that means they had the book for 6 months or so before the flood.

 

It's all conjecture, unless I get a hand on a list that states the 2-D was sold out PRIOR to the 1986 flood.

 

For the record, because I think some haven't been paying attention, Mmy 2-D is LASER ERASER AND PRESSBUTTON, not MM.

[EwanUK]

 

No, he was talking about the MM 2-D...I actually SAW that auction, and LAUGHED at the high bid, which was something in the neighborhood of $150.

 

That was in 2002? 2003?

 

 

Yes it was 2002 and I'm glad someone has finally confirmed that fact independant of my memory. It existed and someone bought it.

 

I understand the UK collector sent away for a copy pretty much immediately after the normal 3D was published (1st october 1985) but had to wait ages for it to turn up. His was no.92 which suggest the previous 91 had been ordered pretty quickly.

 

BTW, do you guys consider the UK copy of Miracleman no.1 a variant? It has a different back cover and "not for sale in USA" note in the indicia.

[EwanUK]

Here's the four Miracleman 23s in CGC 9.8

 

0153243018 (mine on registry on no.2)

 

 

0907546007 (the one listed twice on Comiclink - for $950 and sold for $682)

 

 

0988883001 (Michael's on registry no.1)

 

 

the new one - can we get a better pic?

 

 

 

[ladines-migration]

I've got one of the MM 3D 2d's and I can tell you that mine is signed by Cat but on a special page in the interior of the comic, not inside the cover which would explain why the MSU copy doesn't have it either. The page explains that cat has a condition that doesn't allow her to see the 3D version and since she was the publisher decided to print 100 copies in 2D. I believe mine is number 82 but don't have it on hand to confirm.