Pure nostalgia-- WEST COAST AVENGERS #3 cover on Ebay

[Nexus]

I love it when long-buried treasures pop up on Ebay:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/WEST-COAST-AVENGERS-IRONMAN-HAWKEYE-TIGRA-GRAVITON-WOW_W0QQitemZ290352325232QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439a58e270&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14

 

Hardly a key cover, but definitely hits the right nostalgic notes. Not just for me, either, judging by all the off-Ebay offers the seller is getting:

 

http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ShowAllQuestions&ShowASQAlways=1&frm=284&iid=290352325232&ssPageName=PageAskSellerQuestion_VI&redirect=0&requested=crowbar1946

 

Thankfully, he is letting it run all the way. He's gotta realize that with all these inquiries, he'll do well to let the auction finish.

 

Will be interesting to see where this ends up.

[thehumantorch]

Yes, the questions are very telling. Numerous inquiries about changing the auction to a BIN and numerous questions about shipping overseas. I'm sure he knows that he will do well with this cover. Great stuff.

[batman_fan]

I know I will be watching it closely ...

[bocaratondefense]

That is a nice cover, but the page has yellowed considerably from what looks to be acidic backing paper. This is especially apparent in the photo of the back of the page. Is there something that needs to be done by a paper conservation expert to stabilize a page like that?

[blowout]

That is a nice cover, but the page has yellowed considerably from what looks to be acidic backing paper. This is especially apparent in the photo of the back of the page. Is there something that needs to be done by a paper conservation expert to stabilize a page like that?

 

The acidification is so bad on the back of this page that it has started to come through to the front.

 

Without some serious restoration by a paper conservationist, I doubt the new owner of this cover will get to enjoy it for long. A real shame.

[comicartcom]

That is a nice cover, but the page has yellowed considerably from what looks to be acidic backing paper. This is especially apparent in the photo of the back of the page. Is there something that needs to be done by a paper conservation expert to stabilize a page like that?

 

acidic backing paper??

if the art was backed, you wouldn't be able to read the marvel stamp

 

what it looks like is that it was framed with a piece of regular cardboard behind the art as the frame holder and the art may also have been where it actually gets sunlight.

 

will it get worse.. maybe, over a long period of time (multiple years)

the piece can be bleached, but I personally dislike restoration as I stated in another thread.

 

 

[bocaratondefense]

Yes I didn't mean the art was glued or mounted onto something. I just thought the owner may have framed the cover with the reverse touching a non-archival safe backing board.

 

So if the cover is removed from the non-archival safe storage, is the cover going to deteriorate further without stabilization? I don't mind it in it's current state, but I would hate for it to get worse.

[comicartcom]

if the art is reframed or just kept loose, it will very slowly deteriorate some, but we're talking a long period of time.

what might be a good idea is to scrape the back possibly with a razor blade

(hold blade edge flat on back and scrape)

 

my complaint on restoration is that it takes away something for me.

 

If I had my Tarzan sunday bleached for instance, when I look at it, I would think "this has been bleached" when I look at it and it would reduce my joy

 

some people think it needs to be Angel white to be enjoyable.

I think it just needs to be enjoyed

[blowout]

if the art is reframed or just kept loose, it will very slowly deteriorate some, but we're talking a long period of time.

 

It depends how bad the acidification is. This looks pretty bad to me, and I think the "long period of time" you are talking about may be a lot shorter than you are alluding to.

[tylerdurden-migration]

nice piece

[vodou]

my complaint on restoration is that it takes away something for me.

There's restoration and then there's stabilization. This definitely needs to be ph neutralized to prevent further encroachment. Whitening is an option but not required.

[stinkininkin]

if the art is reframed or just kept loose, it will very slowly deteriorate some, but we're talking a long period of time.

what might be a good idea is to scrape the back possibly with a razor blade

(hold blade edge flat on back and scrape)

 

my complaint on restoration is that it takes away something for me.

 

If I had my Tarzan sunday bleached for instance, when I look at it, I would think "this has been bleached" when I look at it and it would reduce my joy

 

some people think it needs to be Angel white to be enjoyable.

I think it just needs to be enjoyed

 

Hey Rich, is bleaching really an all or nothing prospect? I've got a couple of pieces that I've thought about whitening up since they have really turned yellow (and makes white out corrections areas which have not yellowed seem uber white by contrast). Can't you just "lightly" bleach a page, so that it is not bright white but just more in line with the normal off white color you would expect in a vintage page?

 

Scott Williams

[comicartcom]

 

Hey Rich, is bleaching really an all or nothing prospect? I've got a couple of pieces that I've thought about whitening up since they have really turned yellow (and makes white out corrections areas which have not yellowed seem uber white by contrast). Can't you just "lightly" bleach a page, so that it is not bright white but just more in line with the normal off white color you would expect in a vintage page?

 

Scott Williams

 

well I guess it depends on how long you have it in a bath

 

however what is for certauin is that saoking on liquid changes the feel of the paper as well because the clay later on the surface is stripped away. I don't believe there is a way to prevent that.

 

listen, my perspective:

take a look at my Foster Tarzan

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=422878&GSub=67554

 

eliminating the reddish overall tone (bad photo, incorrect lighting)

the piece was in a frame for 40 years in someone's basement with a piece of glass broken out at top left

the art discolored as a result in the exposed area

 

I've had this page for 20+ years and I love it the way it is

it does need to be mint to be enjoyed and if I got it restored, when I would look at it the thought of the restoration would get in the way of my enjoying the art

 

Think of this:

in comic books, restoration is now considered a very bad thing

why would you consider restoring anything unless it was going to fall apart otherwise???

 

you've seen a degradation of value for restored comic books - Action #1s not withstanding - I think pen and ink art doesn't need resto

 

to go one further

in the movie poster business right at this moment there is a huge scandal of forgery of Frankenstein, Dracula etc posters. More than $2mil has been found so far. You can read about it in today's NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/26/movies/26posters.html?_r=1&ref=arts

 

the fraud could only have taken place with the assistance of a restrorer

 

to find a complete story, go to Bruce Hershenson's movie poster site

sign up so you can get access and read the last 3 or 4 of his newsletter where he refers to "Universal Poster Fraud". read the first to last so you have them in order

 

http://www.emovieposter.com/club/archive.php?myfrom=menu

 

in general I do not collect linenbacked posters

now it is likely I will never be buy one again

 

my preference is unrestored items

 

Rich

[comicartcom]

my complaint on restoration is that it takes away something for me.

There's restoration and then there's stabilization. This definitely needs to be ph neutralized to prevent further encroachment. Whitening is an option but not required.

 

it can be stabilized without having to dip into a solution. That is as far as I would go if I had the choice

[stinkininkin]

 

Hey Rich, is bleaching really an all or nothing prospect? I've got a couple of pieces that I've thought about whitening up since they have really turned yellow (and makes white out corrections areas which have not yellowed seem uber white by contrast). Can't you just "lightly" bleach a page, so that it is not bright white but just more in line with the normal off white color you would expect in a vintage page?

 

Scott Williams

 

well I guess it depends on how long you have it in a bath

 

however what is for certauin is that saoking on liquid changes the feel of the paper as well because the clay later on the surface is stripped away. I don't believe there is a way to prevent that.

 

listen, my perspective:

take a look at my Foster Tarzan

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=422878&GSub=67554

 

eliminating the reddish overall tone (bad photo, incorrect lighting)

the piece was in a frame for 40 years in someone's basement with a piece of glass broken out at top left

the art discolored as a result in the exposed area

 

I've had this page for 20+ years and I love it the way it is

it does need to be mint to be enjoyed and if I got it restored, when I would look at it the thought of the restoration would get in the way of my enjoying the art

 

Think of this:

in comic books, restoration is now considered a very bad thing

why would you consider restoring anything unless it was going to fall apart otherwise???

 

you've seen a degradation of value for restored comic books - Action #1s not withstanding - I think pen and ink art doesn't need resto

 

to go one further

in the movie poster business right at this moment there is a huge scandal of forgery of Frankenstein, Dracula etc posters. More than $2mil has been found so far. You can read about it in today's NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/26/movies/26posters.html?_r=1&ref=arts

 

the fraud could only have taken place with the assistance of a restrorer

 

to find a complete story, go to Bruce Hershenson's movie poster site

sign up so you can get access and read the last 3 or 4 of his newsletter where he refers to "Universal Poster Fraud". read the first to last so you have them in order

 

http://www.emovieposter.com/club/archive.php?myfrom=menu

 

in general I do not collect linenbacked posters

now it is likely I will never be buy one again

 

my preference is unrestored items

 

Rich

 

Fair enough Rich. The issue of forgeries/fraud aside, I guess we all have lines we have drawn in the sand as far as restoration goes in comic art. I definitely want to be a good steward of any art that might be considered "significant", and yet I have a sense of aesthetics that has prevented me from acquiring a desired piece of art in the past because it has condition issues which are too much of a distraction for me--an eyesore if you will. I'm glad you are happy with your Foster Tarzan, but for me, I would want to "restore" it as gently as possible to alleviate the uneven discoloration (if possible). Yeah, it bugs me that much. My eye goes right to that off color corner every time, and while it doesn't diminish the artistry of the piece, it would degrade my enjoyment of the piece. I'm not saying every piece of art I own has to be perfect by any stretch, but there are times where a pieces condition is a big enough factor that I would either want to try and fix it with "responsible restoration", or I would pass on it all together.

 

But that's just me.

 

Scott Williams

[comicartcom]

Fair enough Rich. The issue of forgeries/fraud aside, I guess we all have lines we have drawn in the sand as far as restoration goes in comic art. I definitely want to be a good steward of any art that might be considered "significant", and yet I have a sense of aesthetics that has prevented me from acquiring a desired piece of art in the past because it has condition issues which are too much of a distraction for me--an eyesore if you will. I'm glad you are happy with your Foster Tarzan, but for me, I would want to "restore" it as gently as possible to alleviate the uneven discoloration (if possible). Yeah, it bugs me that much. My eye goes right to that off color corner every time, and while it doesn't diminish the artistry of the piece, it would degrade my enjoyment of the piece. I'm not saying every piece of art I own has to be perfect by any stretch, but there are times where a pieces condition is a big enough factor that I would either want to try and fix it with "responsible restoration", or I would pass on it all together.

 

But that's just me.

 

Scott Williams

 

Scott I fully understand your perspective. I can tell you that the art has not deteriorated in the 20+ I have had it as it is archivally framed (yes I have removed it for inspection and other purposes over the years,like maintainance) but where you say having it the way it is "would degrade my enjoyment of the piece", that's my feeling if I were to get it bleached!! then, everytime I looked at it I would think "damn thing is bleached"

 

something to chew on

Museums do not bleach. They only arrest any significant issues, and back items if needed. That's it. They may do cleaning, acid buffering, they would never bleach.

They are more interested in maintaining the authenticity of the piece, not the aesthetic appearance and this is a perspective I agree with.

 

Rich

[buyatari]

 

 

Think of this:

in comic books, restoration is now considered a very bad thing

why would you consider restoring anything unless it was going to fall apart otherwise???

 

 

Comic books are different. You pay more for the condition than you do for the book. With some rare exceptions, I feel that the art has more intrinsic value.

 

A better comparsion might be fine art. Is a Picasso with restoration worth a fraction or slighty less than it would otherwise be?

 

[NelsonAI]

Good Luck to the Seller. Less than a day to go.

 

OT

 

Good points everyone regarding restoration.

 

However, I have to say I was nervous when I first heard about the "cleaning" of the Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel. After seeing the painstaking process they used with Q-tips, the art just looks even more amazing cleaned. The wax and dirt build up had masked the brilliance and original colors. It is one of the most amazing things I have ever seen artistically in person.

 

I haven't had any art professionally cleaned yet but I have thought about it.

 

Cheers!

N.

[comicartcom]

 

 

Think of this:

in comic books, restoration is now considered a very bad thing

why would you consider restoring anything unless it was going to fall apart otherwise???

 

 

Comic books are different. You pay more for the condition than you do for the book. With some rare exceptions, I feel that the art has more intrinsic value.

 

A better comparsion might be fine art. Is a Picasso with restoration worth a fraction or slighty less than it would otherwise be?

 

a painting and a line drawing have nothing in common

paintings that are dteriorating need restoration to prevent from getting worse, Cracking paint cannot be stopped, it can be arrested however and missing areas would be repainted and yes, a painting with restoration is worth less than a non-restored painting. A real good example is not 1/2 mile from my office (where I'm sitting) .. Steve Wynn's "La Reve" which he had sold for $250mil or something like that. While showing it to the person who already committed to a deal, Wynn poked his elbow into the painting and made a hole about the size of a quarter.

 

The painting has been restored, and the buyer backed out of the sale

[buyatari]

 

 

Think of this:

in comic books, restoration is now considered a very bad thing

why would you consider restoring anything unless it was going to fall apart otherwise???

 

 

Comic books are different. You pay more for the condition than you do for the book. With some rare exceptions, I feel that the art has more intrinsic value.

 

A better comparsion might be fine art. Is a Picasso with restoration worth a fraction or slighty less than it would otherwise be?

 

a painting and a line drawing have nothing in common

paintings that are dteriorating need restoration to prevent from getting worse, Cracking paint cannot be stopped, it can be arrested however and missing areas would be repainted and yes, a painting with restoration is worth less than a non-restored painting. A real good example is not 1/2 mile from my office (where I'm sitting) .. Steve Wynn's "La Reve" which he had sold for $250mil or something like that. While showing it to the person who already committed to a deal, Wynn poked his elbow into the painting and made a hole about the size of a quarter.

 

The painting has been restored, and the buyer backed out of the sale

 

Sure restoration affects value but how much. Is a $250m painting with restoration now worth $25m or $200m.

 

If a painting is different than drawings than why did you pick it to compare? I just said Picasso. This is all pure guess but I am guessing that art with repairs isn't as important as a comic book with repairs. With art people are happy to own a one of a kind original and can live with the defect. It is what it is. With comic book printing in the thousands they need the very best looking copy to have an edge on bragging rights.

 

Now I would guess that if that the painting you mentioned was damaged long beforehand out of sight and the restoration mentioned the sale might still have happened. I can't imagine anyone not being somewhat soured over an item you are about to buy mishandled right in front of you.