And people wonder why folks get a little bit peeved...

[Foolkiller]

I'd prefer to take a large amount of your money.

 

Or you could just try dealing with the issues instead of attempting to attack or discredit the individual.

 

Okay Brad, well I'm going to go on assuming it's you until you prove otherwise.

Ok. Have fun with that.

 

Thanks Brad, I will.

You're welcome, Dupcak.

 

That's the difference Brad, everyone knows who I am, but nobody knows who you are. You claim you're not Brad, but you are, so you just look stupid saying Dupcak. Unless of course you simply identify who you are, which you refuse to do.

Shall we settle on a specific dollar amount now?

 

Or are you just going to continue with the childish accusations?

 

I'm just going to continue Brad.

Works for me, Dupcak.

 

See how stupid you look Brad, we all know I'm not Dupcak, but you won't say come out and say who you are if you're not Brad? Why not, what's to hide?

[Dale Roberts]

I'd prefer to take a large amount of your money.

 

Or you could just try dealing with the issues instead of attempting to attack or discredit the individual.

 

Okay Brad, well I'm going to go on assuming it's you until you prove otherwise.

Ok. Have fun with that.

 

Thanks Brad, I will.

You're welcome, Dupcak.

 

That's the difference Brad, everyone knows who I am, but nobody knows who you are. You claim you're not Brad, but you are, so you just look stupid saying Dupcak. Unless of course you simply identify who you are, which you refuse to do.

Shall we settle on a specific dollar amount now?

 

Or are you just going to continue with the childish accusations?

 

I'm just going to continue Brad.

Works for me, Dupcak.

 

You are a complete fool

[Flaming_Telepath]

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

 

That's not their reasoning for not considering it resto, Nick. They consider pressing a non-additive procedure, and that's why they don't consider it resto. It's right in their FAQ.

 

Jeff, to the best of my knowledge, CGC's original stance revolved around their inability to detect it (if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody around...). This evolved...got finessed, if you will...over time and I would ask why this should be? Why did it need finessing?

 

Nick, even if you're right, what does their original stance have to do with anything? Their current FAQ on the topic is not new, it's at least several years old. It's the only policy that holds any relevance.

 

Jeff, this is actually the whole crux of the matter.

 

CGC policy, the attitude of the market, the changes in Overstreet...all of this has been done for simple gravy train expedience. Nothing else.

 

They haven't debated this issue as we have. They haven't viewed the ethical ramifications. They haven't taken into consideration the views of the buying public.

 

This is purely an exercise in making money. It's that simple and changing the argument to justify the end result is how it's been all along.

 

So, just to be clear, your post claiming that CGC can detect pressing but doesn't want to was based on something that hasn't been a part of their FAQ for years?

 

No. If Susan can detect pressing in most cases, I believe CGC can too, with probably the same success rate as they have with trimming.

 

My point is that CGC realised that their original assertion that it's undetectable was looking for trouble, so it was finessed to allow them to continue not to look for it.

 

Because they don't want to look for it, because if they did, there's about two dozen applecarts waiting to be tipped over.

[Domo Arigato]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

 

Brad,

I'm a turd head when it comes to proper debate, but if memory serves,

from my high school days, that burden of proof must be demonstrated by those

forwarding the arguement counter to the standard accepted norm.

If you are saying, as 40+ pages continue, that pressing IS detrimental,

then, where is that proof ? Sorry, Susan's opinion or Brian's, or anyone

else's OPINION doesn't matter. Where is the physical evidence ?

CapFreak,

I agree with the part about you being a turd head. You are claiming that the "pressing causes no harm" is the standard accepted norm. Per your own specifications, the burden of proof now lies on you to back that claim up. Where is your evidence?

[Dale Roberts]

I think I'm also correct in saying that Susan claims that she can tell you if a book has been pressed or not? As she has no monetary dog in the fight, as her reputation is unimpeachable, as her expertise is unsurpassed, let's accept that she can.

 

This is contrary to what we're being told by other individuals/bodies who, coincidentally, do have a monetary dog in the fight.

 

Let me put forward a theory...

 

Various forms of restoration are easier than others to spot. Colour touch, tear seals, cleaning...these are not quite as difficult to spot as trimming or, well, pressing.

 

Trimming, when done well, is almost impossible to detect...CGC know this all too well, as they've previously dropped the ball. However, they still attempt to detect it and note the slab accordingly when they are successful.

 

I would suggest that pressing is very, very similar, in that it can be detected, but maybe not in every case...the very, very good jobs might just slip the net.

 

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

 

And they can't reliably detect trimming, either, so why not stop trying with this, too?

 

I suspect that the reason why pressing is not looked for is that they don't want to look for it. Not that they can't, but that they won't.

 

Why not? The premier restorer/conservator in the industry deems it restoration and says she can spot it...and not just the weak 'if it's a poor job, we'll see damage and downgrade it'. No, we're talking about the good jobs, the jobs that you're all happy with. Susan says she can still spot them.

 

So what has she got to gain by making these claims?

 

And what has CGC got to gain by denying them?

 

1) This summer, I sat in a hotel room with a couple of people who actively press. The topic of pressing came up with another dealer who had books pressed and did not consider it restoration. The two pressers both vigorously stated that pressing is absolutely restoration. To say that those who press don't consider it restoration is a patently wrong generalization.

 

2) I have an old price guide or CBM (for the life of me, I can't remember which, but I'm pretty sure it was an OSPG) with an article by Susan C. on restoration. In that article she discussed pressing and stated that it is undetectable. I'd like to know what changed so that she now feels it is.

 

I think I liked you better when you just called everyone a dirtbag.

 

Here is what a Pro-Presser thinks: Pressing is restoration. Most of us know it, and won't argue the point otherwise. If well done, it is difficult to detect, though certainly not impossible. However, most of the folks I know consider it to be so incredibly uninvasive as to make the whole point moot. Might one decent press take a few years off of the "life" of a book...possibly, I can accept that. But since that lifespan will still far exceed mine, or anyone else's on these Boards today, I'm willing to chance it. If I sell the book, I'll sell it with full Disclosure of what was done.

 

Do you think I would personally be sending my irreplacable Golden Age books (of which, I've only had a very small amount Pressed) off to be "worked" on if I for a minute thought it would come back looking like a scorched waffle? Or if those White pages would come back looking like they've sat in attic for 20 years? For some reason, its conveniently forgotten that not everyone who presses does it for profit...some of us will trade a higher grade and appeal for our personal books for what might be a shorter lifespan.

 

As for CGC, it is 100% in CGC's best interest to keep the game the way it currently is. We all know it. And as far as I'm concerned, if I'm a buyer of a high grade book, I need to assume its been pressed, with or without disclosure. Sadly, that fact has caused some of our brethren to pack it in and leave the hobby, or limit their enjoyment of it. And that sucks, it really does.

 

As for the Mound City books, you might've just witnessed one of the last few "unpressed" OO collections that will come to market for years. Could we say the same if the books went through C-Link or Heritage? I was surprised some of the books went for GPA or less, considering all the hub-bub around the issue of Pressing. I wouldn't be surprised if these books fetch premiums in the marketplace going forward...provided they remain in their original cases and with their original grades.

 

 

 

I would be 1,000.00 that some of those books purchased yesterday have already been pressed today.

[nearmint]

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

 

That's not their reasoning for not considering it resto, Nick. They consider pressing a non-additive procedure, and that's why they don't consider it resto. It's right in their FAQ.

 

Jeff, to the best of my knowledge, CGC's original stance revolved around their inability to detect it (if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody around...). This evolved...got finessed, if you will...over time and I would ask why this should be? Why did it need finessing?

 

Nick, even if you're right, what does their original stance have to do with anything? Their current FAQ on the topic is not new, it's at least several years old. It's the only policy that holds any relevance.

 

Jeff, this is actually the whole crux of the matter.

 

CGC policy, the attitude of the market, the changes in Overstreet...all of this has been done for simple gravy train expedience. Nothing else.

 

They haven't debated this issue as we have. They haven't viewed the ethical ramifications. They haven't taken into consideration the views of the buying public.

 

This is purely an exercise in making money. It's that simple and changing the argument to justify the end result is how it's been all along.

 

So, just to be clear, your post claiming that CGC can detect pressing but doesn't want to was based on something that hasn't been a part of their FAQ for years?

 

No. If Susan can detect pressing in most cases, I believe CGC can too, with probably the same success rate as they have with trimming.

 

My point is that CGC realised that their original assertion that it's undetectable was looking for trouble, so it was finessed to allow them to continue not to look for it.

 

Because they don't want to look for it, because if they did, there's about two dozen applecarts waiting to be tipped over.

 

Anything is possible, Nick. Knowing the guys at CGC, I don't believe what you're saying is true. But since neither of us can offer proof, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Domo Arigato]

I'd prefer to take a large amount of your money.

 

Or you could just try dealing with the issues instead of attempting to attack or discredit the individual.

 

Okay Brad, well I'm going to go on assuming it's you until you prove otherwise.

Ok. Have fun with that.

 

Thanks Brad, I will.

You're welcome, Dupcak.

 

That's the difference Brad, everyone knows who I am, but nobody knows who you are. You claim you're not Brad, but you are, so you just look stupid saying Dupcak. Unless of course you simply identify who you are, which you refuse to do.

Shall we settle on a specific dollar amount now?

 

Or are you just going to continue with the childish accusations?

 

I'm just going to continue Brad.

Works for me, Dupcak.

 

See how stupid you look Brad, we all know I'm not Dupcak, but you won't say come out and say who you are if you're not Brad? Why not, what's to hide?

I don't look as dumb as you do, Dupcak. You can't debate the issue without resorting to this childish name calling and pathetic peer pressure to try to cloud the issue in a sad attempt to discredit someone.

 

Grow up.

[Domo Arigato]

I'd prefer to take a large amount of your money.

 

Or you could just try dealing with the issues instead of attempting to attack or discredit the individual.

 

Okay Brad, well I'm going to go on assuming it's you until you prove otherwise.

Ok. Have fun with that.

 

Thanks Brad, I will.

You're welcome, Dupcak.

 

That's the difference Brad, everyone knows who I am, but nobody knows who you are. You claim you're not Brad, but you are, so you just look stupid saying Dupcak. Unless of course you simply identify who you are, which you refuse to do.

Shall we settle on a specific dollar amount now?

 

Or are you just going to continue with the childish accusations?

 

I'm just going to continue Brad.

Works for me, Dupcak.

 

You are a complete fool

And yet I'm still able to look down on you with contempt.

[buttock]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

 

No, you are the infamous Redhook. You can deny it Brad, but it's you.

 

I don't think this is Brad. Clearly it's someone's shill, but RedHook was generally quite intelligent and could form a reasonable argument (albeit blinded by ideals at times). This guy couldn't think his way out of a paper bag.

[nearmint]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

 

No, you are the infamous Redhook. You can deny it Brad, but it's you.

 

I don't think this is Brad. Clearly it's someone's shill, but RedHook was generally quite intelligent and could form a reasonable argument (albeit blinded by ideals at times). This guy couldn't think his way out of a paper bag.

 

Agreed.

[VintageComics]

Nick, there is no way pressing is detectable on a book that is a good pressing candidate and the press job is done correctly. No way.

 

I am not aware of Susan's exact statement on the matter but I would really be surprised (and would not believe her even though I consider her almost a friend and highly esteemed as we have interacted several times) if she told me she could detect every pressed book with accuracy.

 

Maybe NASA will one way find a way to detect it on a molecular level relatively cheap but with the current technology, and the current costs involved there is no way.

 

I would bet the farm on that.

[The Question?]

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

 

That's not their reasoning for not considering it resto, Nick. They consider pressing a non-additive procedure, and that's why they don't consider it resto. It's right in their FAQ.

 

Jeff, to the best of my knowledge, CGC's original stance revolved around their inability to detect it (if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody around...). This evolved...got finessed, if you will...over time and I would ask why this should be? Why did it need finessing?

 

Nick, even if you're right, what does their original stance have to do with anything? Their current FAQ on the topic is not new, it's at least several years old. It's the only policy that holds any relevance.

 

Jeff, this is actually the whole crux of the matter.

 

CGC policy, the attitude of the market, the changes in Overstreet...all of this has been done for simple gravy train expedience. Nothing else.

 

They haven't debated this issue as we have. They haven't viewed the ethical ramifications. They haven't taken into consideration the views of the buying public.

 

This is purely an exercise in making money. It's that simple and changing the argument to justify the end result is how it's been all along.

 

So, just to be clear, your post claiming that CGC can detect pressing but doesn't want to was based on something that hasn't been a part of their FAQ for years?

 

No. If Susan can detect pressing in most cases, I believe CGC can too, with probably the same success rate as they have with trimming.

 

My point is that CGC realised that their original assertion that it's undetectable was looking for trouble, so it was finessed to allow them to continue not to look for it.

 

Because they don't want to look for it, because if they did, there's about two dozen applecarts waiting to be tipped over.

 

 

 

 

a 1000% BINGO!

[buttock]

I think I'm also correct in saying that Susan claims that she can tell you if a book has been pressed or not? As she has no monetary dog in the fight, as her reputation is unimpeachable, as her expertise is unsurpassed, let's accept that she can.

 

This is contrary to what we're being told by other individuals/bodies who, coincidentally, do have a monetary dog in the fight.

 

Let me put forward a theory...

 

Various forms of restoration are easier than others to spot. Colour touch, tear seals, cleaning...these are not quite as difficult to spot as trimming or, well, pressing.

 

Trimming, when done well, is almost impossible to detect...CGC know this all too well, as they've previously dropped the ball. However, they still attempt to detect it and note the slab accordingly when they are successful.

 

I would suggest that pressing is very, very similar, in that it can be detected, but maybe not in every case...the very, very good jobs might just slip the net.

 

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

 

And they can't reliably detect trimming, either, so why not stop trying with this, too?

 

I suspect that the reason why pressing is not looked for is that they don't want to look for it. Not that they can't, but that they won't.

 

Why not? The premier restorer/conservator in the industry deems it restoration and says she can spot it...and not just the weak 'if it's a poor job, we'll see damage and downgrade it'. No, we're talking about the good jobs, the jobs that you're all happy with. Susan says she can still spot them.

 

So what has she got to gain by making these claims?

 

And what has CGC got to gain by denying them?

 

1) This summer, I sat in a hotel room with a couple of people who actively press. The topic of pressing came up with another dealer who had books pressed and did not consider it restoration. The two pressers both vigorously stated that pressing is absolutely restoration. To say that those who press don't consider it restoration is a patently wrong generalization.

 

2) I have an old price guide or CBM (for the life of me, I can't remember which, but I'm pretty sure it was an OSPG) with an article by Susan C. on restoration. In that article she discussed pressing and stated that it is undetectable. I'd like to know what changed so that she now feels it is.

 

I think I liked you better when you just called everyone a dirtbag.

 

Here is what a Pro-Presser thinks: Pressing is restoration. Most of us know it, and won't argue the point otherwise. If well done, it is difficult to detect, though certainly not impossible. However, most of the folks I know consider it to be so incredibly uninvasive as to make the whole point moot. Might one decent press take a few years off of the "life" of a book...possibly, I can accept that. But since that lifespan will still far exceed mine, or anyone else's on these Boards today, I'm willing to chance it. If I sell the book, I'll sell it with full Disclosure of what was done.

 

Do you think I would personally be sending my irreplacable Golden Age books (of which, I've only had a very small amount Pressed) off to be "worked" on if I for a minute thought it would come back looking like a scorched waffle? Or if those White pages would come back looking like they've sat in attic for 20 years? For some reason, its conveniently forgotten that not everyone who presses does it for profit...some of us will trade a higher grade and appeal for our personal books for what might be a shorter lifespan.

 

As for CGC, it is 100% in CGC's best interest to keep the game the way it currently is. We all know it. And as far as I'm concerned, if I'm a buyer of a high grade book, I need to assume its been pressed, with or without disclosure. Sadly, that fact has caused some of our brethren to pack it in and leave the hobby, or limit their enjoyment of it. And that sucks, it really does.

 

As for the Mound City books, you might've just witnessed one of the last few "unpressed" OO collections that will come to market for years. Could we say the same if the books went through C-Link or Heritage? I was surprised some of the books went for GPA or less, considering all the hub-bub around the issue of Pressing. I wouldn't be surprised if these books fetch premiums in the marketplace going forward...provided they remain in their original cases and with their original grades.

 

 

Dirtbag.

[Domo Arigato]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

 

No, you are the infamous Redhook. You can deny it Brad, but it's you.

 

I don't think this is Brad. Clearly it's someone's shill, but RedHook was generally quite intelligent and could form a reasonable argument (albeit blinded by ideals at times). This guy couldn't think his way out of a paper bag.

I've been able to make you look pretty silly.

[Transplant]

Here is what a Pro-Presser thinks: Pressing is restoration. Most of us know it, and won't argue the point otherwise. If well done, it is difficult to detect, though certainly not impossible. However, most of the folks I know consider it to be so incredibly uninvasive as to make the whole point moot. Might one decent press take a few years off of the "life" of a book...possibly, I can accept that. But since that lifespan will still far exceed mine, or anyone else's on these Boards today, I'm willing to chance it. If I sell the book, I'll sell it with full Disclosure of what was done.

 

Do you think I would personally be sending my irreplacable Golden Age books (of which, I've only had a very small amount Pressed) off to be "worked" on if I for a minute thought it would come back looking like a scorched waffle? Or if those White pages would come back looking like they've sat in attic for 20 years? For some reason, its conveniently forgotten that not everyone who presses does it for profit...some of us will trade a higher grade and appeal for our personal books for what might be a shorter lifespan.

 

As for CGC, it is 100% in CGC's best interest to keep the game the way it currently is. We all know it. And as far as I'm concerned, if I'm a buyer of a high grade book, I need to assume its been pressed, with or without disclosure. Sadly, that fact has caused some of our brethren to pack it in and leave the hobby, or limit their enjoyment of it. And that sucks, it really does.

 

As for the Mound City books, you might've just witnessed one of the last few "unpressed" OO collections that will come to market for years. Could we say the same if the books went through C-Link or Heritage? I was surprised some of the books went for GPA or less, considering all the hub-bub around the issue of Pressing. I wouldn't be surprised if these books fetch premiums in the marketplace going forward...provided they remain in their original cases and with their original grades.

 

Dang. I knew there was a reason I like you, other than your doll proclivity. A well stated, calm opinion.

[Foolkiller]

I suggest we just call Domo Brad until we find out who he really is. I'm sure it's a banned member, and as we just saw, it's so easy to get Domo off his point with something so simple it's entertaining.

 

He's like a little simple toy for our amusement, I enjoyed this. It was so easy to tweak him it's comical.

 

That said, I've got to go back to work, this was fun and entertaining to so easily toy with such a insufficiently_thoughtful_person, it's completely ruined any credibility he ever had. And God, it was just so easy.

[KingOfRulers]

I'd prefer to take a large amount of your money.

 

Or you could just try dealing with the issues instead of attempting to attack or discredit the individual.

 

Okay Brad, well I'm going to go on assuming it's you until you prove otherwise.

Ok. Have fun with that.

 

Thanks Brad, I will.

You're welcome, Dupcak.

 

That's the difference Brad, everyone knows who I am, but nobody knows who you are. You claim you're not Brad, but you are, so you just look stupid saying Dupcak. Unless of course you simply identify who you are, which you refuse to do.

Shall we settle on a specific dollar amount now?

 

Or are you just going to continue with the childish accusations?

 

I'm just going to continue Brad.

Works for me, Dupcak.

 

You are a complete fool

And yet I'm still able to look down on you with contempt.

 

Watch your words, sir--for your own sake. An angry Dale Roberts could tear these boards asunder.

[Dale Roberts]

This is the reason that CGC give for not considering it restoration...it can't be detected...but that seems to be untrue.

 

That's not their reasoning for not considering it resto, Nick. They consider pressing a non-additive procedure, and that's why they don't consider it resto. It's right in their FAQ.

 

Jeff, to the best of my knowledge, CGC's original stance revolved around their inability to detect it (if a tree falls in the forest and there's nobody around...). This evolved...got finessed, if you will...over time and I would ask why this should be? Why did it need finessing?

 

Nick, even if you're right, what does their original stance have to do with anything? Their current FAQ on the topic is not new, it's at least several years old. It's the only policy that holds any relevance.

 

Jeff, this is actually the whole crux of the matter.

 

CGC policy, the attitude of the market, the changes in Overstreet...all of this has been done for simple gravy train expedience. Nothing else.

 

They haven't debated this issue as we have. They haven't viewed the ethical ramifications. They haven't taken into consideration the views of the buying public.

 

This is purely an exercise in making money. It's that simple and changing the argument to justify the end result is how it's been all along.

 

So, just to be clear, your post claiming that CGC can detect pressing but doesn't want to was based on something that hasn't been a part of their FAQ for years?

 

No. If Susan can detect pressing in most cases, I believe CGC can too, with probably the same success rate as they have with trimming.

 

My point is that CGC realised that their original assertion that it's undetectable was looking for trouble, so it was finessed to allow them to continue not to look for it.

 

Because they don't want to look for it, because if they did, there's about two dozen applecarts waiting to be tipped over.

 

Nick, It is not 2 dozen applecarts. Do you realize that it would destroy the credibility of CGC to change their stance on pressing at this point? No certification would be worth a grain of salt. All of the hundreds of millions of dollars which have poured into the hobby and into certified books would be worthless. It would completely destroy not only their business, but the viability of the hobby itself.

 

If Susan can do this, why doesn't she start up her own certification business?

 

[nearmint]

I suggest we just call Domo Brad until we find out who he really is. I'm sure it's a banned member, and as we just saw, it's so easy to get Domo off his point with something so simple it's entertaining.

 

He's like a little simple toy for our amusement, I enjoyed this. It was so easy to tweak him it's comical.

 

That said, I've got to go back to work, this was fun and entertaining to so easily toy with such a insufficiently_thoughtful_person, it's completely ruined any credibility he ever had. And God, it was just so easy.

 

I'm actually getting back to work, too. I spent so much time in this thread yesterday that I didn't get any comics pressed - Oops! I mean I didn't get any work done.

[towards2112]

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

But the fact still remains true and is appropriate for this discussion since many in here are claiming otherwise. Likely the most highly regarded, most experienced comic book restoration expert in the world considers pressing to be restoration and should be proactively disclosed.

 

If she had gone to work for CGC (a job for which she was turned down for per Borock) would her position be the same?

 

Susan is a highly regarded professional, I but I no longer consider her to be the most highly regarded, though I do believe she is obviously in the top tier.

How is anyone supposed to guess what someone elses position might have been if a particular situation had been different? After demanding specific proof from the other side of the room, that's the kind of silly question you come up with to try and make a point?

 

And you may not consider her to be the most highly regarded, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't be in the minority.

 

Brad,

 

While I realize that you love Susan and worship her, and while I hold her in high regard, you can no more support your assertion that she's considered the "best" than I can, so stop making it sound like you can.

 

I'm demanding specific proof because you're the one making the claim as you've been screaming for years. There's nothing new here. Do you know what's happened since you began your campaign?

 

More people have started pressing books.

My name isn't Brad...so you're going to have to try barking up a different tree, FK.

 

And you must not be a morning person, because the arguments you were making last night were far more coherent than todays. And as I mentioned before, the pressers are the one manipulating the books and claiming little or no damage. The burden of proof lies on them to back up THEIR claims. Not us.

 

Brad,

I'm a turd head when it comes to proper debate, but if memory serves,

from my high school days, that burden of proof must be demonstrated by those

forwarding the arguement counter to the standard accepted norm.

If you are saying, as 40+ pages continue, that pressing IS detrimental,

then, where is that proof ? Sorry, Susan's opinion or Brian's, or anyone

else's OPINION doesn't matter. Where is the physical evidence ?

CapFreak,

I agree with the part about you being a turd head. You are claiming that the "pressing causes no harm" is the standard accepted norm. Per your own specifications, the burden of proof now lies on you to back that claim up. Where is your evidence?

Brad,

Evidence is in my third bedroom in my personal collection of comic books

and many many many were pressed 30 years ago. I don't see any problems

with them today. And they have not decayed. I'm especially proud of the

Tom and Jerry's and Our Gang. Sorry, I see no problem.