Why do Anti-Pressers HATE pressing?

[Logan510]

Haters gonna hate. Anti-pressers are just trying to be the 'purest of collectors' like that makes them superior or something

 

I want to address this, as I think it is a super unfair characterization. I have never been anti-pressing. It took me many years after learning about the process before I pressed some books (and at the time there were only a couple of places that could do it). Now, I do it all the time. I have sold books for more money, and I have higher grade in my collection.

 

But it has done something to me as a collector, and I mean this with the greatest amount of sincerity - I don't love high grade comics the way I once did. If I got a gorgeous NM Bronze book off ebay in the 1999-2002 era, it was one of the greatest collecting feelings I could have. I knew at that point that this book had been shepherded or stewarded into the new millennium and had somehow staved off the ravages of time.

 

Now, I know that a damaged book, with the right kind of damage can be transmogrified into a high grade book via pressing. I know because I have done it dozens and dozens of times. I still don't feel there is anything wrong with the procedure, but sometimes I wish I could turn back the hands of time and unlearn the whole thing. The "innocence" of playing in the raw high grade end of the pool was pretty awesome, and I am not sure that all the extra bread was worth it.

 

So when I look at some of the guys that are 10-15 years older than I am, I can't even imagine what it must be like to see all these high grade being "created" in 2016.

 

--S.

 

I've been told by people I trust in the hobby that pressing was taking place long before encapsulation. How are we to know that books we bought off of eBay in the late 90's weren't already pressed?

[namisgr]

I've been told by people I trust in the hobby that pressing was taking place long before encapsulation. How are we to know that books we bought off of eBay in the late 90's weren't already pressed?

 

We bought from the original owners, or the dealers who bought from the original owners.

 

Not 100% certainty, but also nothing like the poor likelihood of avoiding pressing today.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have pressed thousands of books in the last 6 years. I am amazed...truly...at what is possible. I get a lot of heat from people when I discuss this process with others, because they think I am bragging about what *I* can do. I am not. I'm simply amazed that it's possible, and what can be done, what these fragile, old pieces of paper, paper that was made to be discarded, can do when coaxed just the right way.

 

Restoration is only frowned upon so much in the "younger hobbies" of comic collecting, sports cards, and the like. In other collector fields, restoration isn't only seen as not bad, but vital to the preservation of certain works that otherwise would be lost to time.

 

Yes, pressing can be a rough venture. And yes, I can and do appreciate the fact that a book survived 20, 30, 40, 50 years with next to no damage. But the balance is this: a worn out piece of rag is still a worn out piece of rag, and all the pressing in the world won't change that. A beautiful, untouched copy, on the other hand, that has a small indentation in the corner doesn't need to have that flaw, and I can make it not be there....and the book is a little better than it was.

 

Pressing isn't magic. It's just help. Aside from situations so rare, they defy all odds, you're not going to turn 6.5s into 9.8s. Even aside from rare situations, you're not going to turn a 9.0 into a 9.8.

 

The underlying copy has already got to be a thing of beauty in the first place. I'm not smashing a book into perfection that wasn't pretty close to it already. Pressing....proper pressing...is an art.

 

And when I'm done, I can say "look at how well this copy survived 50 years in such beautiful condition! Yes, I smoothed out the overflash a bit, and removed a small bend or finger dent, but look how beautiful the book was when it started!" Because let's face it...it's paper, and it's old, and it was never meant to last. How does anyone know that the Batman #171 that is an unpressed 9.6 didn't sustain a small impact bend in one of the corners over the years and someone put it under a stack of encyclopedias for a few years?

 

You don't. So, rather than being saddened by the fact that a book may not have survived all these years without a ding or two that has now been smoothed out, one can still take pleasure in seeing just how well it DID survive, over all. And that's pretty nifty.

 

Is it amazing to hold a coin from 1882 and see it just as the day it was minted? Of course. It's amazing. Totally. But it's also amazing to see a coin that sat on the bottom of the ocean for 150 years be gently coaxed back into its original form by skilled hands. Both situations are pretty amazing. The one who presses very well is an artist just as much as the one who restores the paining, or the 1936 Studebaker, or the one who does professional work on comics.

 

It's all in your perspective.

 

Nice circle jerk

 

 

 

I do wish the ongoing commentary from you about me would end, though. .

 

 

Done

 

 

[Logan510]

I've been told by people I trust in the hobby that pressing was taking place long before encapsulation. How are we to know that books we bought off of eBay in the late 90's weren't already pressed?

 

We bought from the original owners, or the dealers who bought from the original owners.

 

Not 100% certainty, but also nothing like the poor likelihood of avoiding pressing today.

 

I've been buying back issues since the early 80's via LCS and mail order and even now looking back at some of those, I have no idea if they were pressed or not.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have pressed thousands of books in the last 6 years. I am amazed...truly...at what is possible. I get a lot of heat from people when I discuss this process with others, because they think I am bragging about what *I* can do. I am not. I'm simply amazed that it's possible, and what can be done, what these fragile, old pieces of paper, paper that was made to be discarded, can do when coaxed just the right way.

 

Restoration is only frowned upon so much in the "younger hobbies" of comic collecting, sports cards, and the like. In other collector fields, restoration isn't only seen as not bad, but vital to the preservation of certain works that otherwise would be lost to time.

 

Yes, pressing can be a rough venture. And yes, I can and do appreciate the fact that a book survived 20, 30, 40, 50 years with next to no damage. But the balance is this: a worn out piece of rag is still a worn out piece of rag, and all the pressing in the world won't change that. A beautiful, untouched copy, on the other hand, that has a small indentation in the corner doesn't need to have that flaw, and I can make it not be there....and the book is a little better than it was.

 

Pressing isn't magic. It's just help. Aside from situations so rare, they defy all odds, you're not going to turn 6.5s into 9.8s. Even aside from rare situations, you're not going to turn a 9.0 into a 9.8.

 

The underlying copy has already got to be a thing of beauty in the first place. I'm not smashing a book into perfection that wasn't pretty close to it already. Pressing....proper pressing...is an art.

 

And when I'm done, I can say "look at how well this copy survived 50 years in such beautiful condition! Yes, I smoothed out the overflash a bit, and removed a small bend or finger dent, but look how beautiful the book was when it started!" Because let's face it...it's paper, and it's old, and it was never meant to last. How does anyone know that the Batman #171 that is an unpressed 9.6 didn't sustain a small impact bend in one of the corners over the years and someone put it under a stack of encyclopedias for a few years?

 

You don't. So, rather than being saddened by the fact that a book may not have survived all these years without a ding or two that has now been smoothed out, one can still take pleasure in seeing just how well it DID survive, over all. And that's pretty nifty.

 

Is it amazing to hold a coin from 1882 and see it just as the day it was minted? Of course. It's amazing. Totally. But it's also amazing to see a coin that sat on the bottom of the ocean for 150 years be gently coaxed back into its original form by skilled hands. Both situations are pretty amazing. The one who presses very well is an artist just as much as the one who restores the paining, or the 1936 Studebaker, or the one who does professional work on comics.

 

It's all in your perspective.

 

Nice circle jerk

 

 

 

I do wish the ongoing commentary from you about me would end, though. .

 

 

Done

 

 

What? I can't respond to things you post? Get the over yourself. Good grief.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I pressed books in the early 90's. I just didn't do it nearly as effectively.

[jcjames]

You get a book that has a corner cover flap folded over. Is unfolding it also restoration?

 

No, the damage caused by the crease is still there.

 

Same with pressing. If there's a cbc at the site of the pressing, it's still there after flattening.

 

No. Pressing with heat, and humidity is, IMO. It changes the paper fibers.

Technically, so does folding the bent corner-flap back over too.

 

But you do bring up a good point.

 

IMO, any treatment that adds to or removes the original paper, inks, gloss or staples of the book is restoration (or at best conservation). Anything that doesn't, isn't.

 

But the question of whether the paper fibers themselves are altered at the site of the bend that is pressed flat (as opposed to the corner flap that is bent back to original configuration) seems a very gray area - nowhere near as cut and dry as some folks here are making it.

 

 

 

[gaz973]

Like some of the previous posters, I was also one of those people who was just blown away at the thought of decades old comics that had somehow survived to the present day in high grade. To see those kinds of books was really something and the idea of owning some of them seemed like the ultimate experience in comic collecting to me.

 

As I learnt more and more of these books weren't actually the amazing examples of preservation that I thought they were and more and more high graded copies were being produced from lower grades, it just destroyed the sense of excitement that I got from them before. Furthermore, since it was dificult to tell the genuine article from those that had been manipulated and CGC wouldn't distinguish between them, it made trying to collect the genuine unmanipulated high grade books a minefield.

 

The reason I always disliked pressing had absolutely nothing to do with what anyone else collected, it was because it killed the way I (and others) wanted to collect permanently.

[jcjames]

I think anti-pressers hate pressing the same way people hate players that use steroids - to them it's a form of cheating. Steroids are now blatantly cheating since its against the rules but even before that it was frowned upon since it gave unfair advance to people who juiced. I think the hate for pressing stems from the same place.

 

Pressing is so obviously a form of restoration, that to deny it....is disingenuous at best.

 

It's not so much the practice itself that stirs hatred, but the all the lies & wildly_fanciful_statement we've been subjected to since the process was revealed.

You get a book that has a corner cover flap folded over. Is unfolding it also restoration?

 

 

We've discussed these scenarios ad nauseam over the years.

 

 

Hopefully someone with more patience than I will be along to address this.......

 

 

 

Thanks for your patience in helping folks who are newer than you learn more abo

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have pressed thousands of books in the last 6 years. I am amazed...truly...at what is possible. I get a lot of heat from people when I discuss this process with others, because they think I am bragging about what *I* can do. I am not. I'm simply amazed that it's possible, and what can be done, what these fragile, old pieces of paper, paper that was made to be discarded, can do when coaxed just the right way.

 

Restoration is only frowned upon so much in the "younger hobbies" of comic collecting, sports cards, and the like. In other collector fields, restoration isn't only seen as not bad, but vital to the preservation of certain works that otherwise would be lost to time.

 

Yes, pressing can be a rough venture. And yes, I can and do appreciate the fact that a book survived 20, 30, 40, 50 years with next to no damage. But the balance is this: a worn out piece of rag is still a worn out piece of rag, and all the pressing in the world won't change that. A beautiful, untouched copy, on the other hand, that has a small indentation in the corner doesn't need to have that flaw, and I can make it not be there....and the book is a little better than it was.

 

Pressing isn't magic. It's just help. Aside from situations so rare, they defy all odds, you're not going to turn 6.5s into 9.8s. Even aside from rare situations, you're not going to turn a 9.0 into a 9.8.

 

The underlying copy has already got to be a thing of beauty in the first place. I'm not smashing a book into perfection that wasn't pretty close to it already. Pressing....proper pressing...is an art.

 

And when I'm done, I can say "look at how well this copy survived 50 years in such beautiful condition! Yes, I smoothed out the overflash a bit, and removed a small bend or finger dent, but look how beautiful the book was when it started!" Because let's face it...it's paper, and it's old, and it was never meant to last. How does anyone know that the Batman #171 that is an unpressed 9.6 didn't sustain a small impact bend in one of the corners over the years and someone put it under a stack of encyclopedias for a few years?

 

You don't. So, rather than being saddened by the fact that a book may not have survived all these years without a ding or two that has now been smoothed out, one can still take pleasure in seeing just how well it DID survive, over all. And that's pretty nifty.

 

Is it amazing to hold a coin from 1882 and see it just as the day it was minted? Of course. It's amazing. Totally. But it's also amazing to see a coin that sat on the bottom of the ocean for 150 years be gently coaxed back into its original form by skilled hands. Both situations are pretty amazing. The one who presses very well is an artist just as much as the one who restores the paining, or the 1936 Studebaker, or the one who does professional work on comics.

 

It's all in your perspective.

 

Nice circle jerk

 

 

 

I do wish the ongoing commentary from you about me would end, though. .

 

 

Done

 

 

What? I can't respond to things you post? Get the over yourself. Good grief.

 

 

I would appreciate it if you didn't. We don't agree on much of anything, so interacting only leads to "conflict." "Conflict" leads to anger (from other people.) Anger (from other people) leads to...banning.

 

 

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have pressed thousands of books in the last 6 years. I am amazed...truly...at what is possible. I get a lot of heat from people when I discuss this process with others, because they think I am bragging about what *I* can do. I am not. I'm simply amazed that it's possible, and what can be done, what these fragile, old pieces of paper, paper that was made to be discarded, can do when coaxed just the right way.

 

Restoration is only frowned upon so much in the "younger hobbies" of comic collecting, sports cards, and the like. In other collector fields, restoration isn't only seen as not bad, but vital to the preservation of certain works that otherwise would be lost to time.

 

Yes, pressing can be a rough venture. And yes, I can and do appreciate the fact that a book survived 20, 30, 40, 50 years with next to no damage. But the balance is this: a worn out piece of rag is still a worn out piece of rag, and all the pressing in the world won't change that. A beautiful, untouched copy, on the other hand, that has a small indentation in the corner doesn't need to have that flaw, and I can make it not be there....and the book is a little better than it was.

 

Pressing isn't magic. It's just help. Aside from situations so rare, they defy all odds, you're not going to turn 6.5s into 9.8s. Even aside from rare situations, you're not going to turn a 9.0 into a 9.8.

 

The underlying copy has already got to be a thing of beauty in the first place. I'm not smashing a book into perfection that wasn't pretty close to it already. Pressing....proper pressing...is an art.

 

And when I'm done, I can say "look at how well this copy survived 50 years in such beautiful condition! Yes, I smoothed out the overflash a bit, and removed a small bend or finger dent, but look how beautiful the book was when it started!" Because let's face it...it's paper, and it's old, and it was never meant to last. How does anyone know that the Batman #171 that is an unpressed 9.6 didn't sustain a small impact bend in one of the corners over the years and someone put it under a stack of encyclopedias for a few years?

 

You don't. So, rather than being saddened by the fact that a book may not have survived all these years without a ding or two that has now been smoothed out, one can still take pleasure in seeing just how well it DID survive, over all. And that's pretty nifty.

 

Is it amazing to hold a coin from 1882 and see it just as the day it was minted? Of course. It's amazing. Totally. But it's also amazing to see a coin that sat on the bottom of the ocean for 150 years be gently coaxed back into its original form by skilled hands. Both situations are pretty amazing. The one who presses very well is an artist just as much as the one who restores the paining, or the 1936 Studebaker, or the one who does professional work on comics.

 

It's all in your perspective.

 

Nice circle jerk

 

 

 

I do wish the ongoing commentary from you about me would end, though. .

 

 

Done

 

 

What? I can't respond to things you post? Get the over yourself. Good grief.

 

 

I would appreciate it if you didn't. We don't agree on much of anything, so interacting only leads to "conflict." "Conflict" leads to anger (from other people.) Anger (from other people) leads to...banning.

 

 

mess happens.

 

Your post was a circle jerk IMO

 

I let you know.

 

Life goes on......

 

 

[gaz973]

You get a book that has a corner cover flap folded over. Is unfolding it also restoration?

 

No, the damage caused by the crease is still there.

 

Same with pressing. If there's a cbc at the site of the pressing, it's still there after flattening.

 

 

I don't see the relevance. The pressing won't affect a colour breaking crease but it will affect other defects. Unfolding a crease doesn't affect any defect, it's just moving the book. In fact, it's probably just damaging the book further by weakening the crease.

[Logan510]

Like some of the previous posters, I was also one of those people who was just blown away at the thought of decades old comics that had somehow survived to the present day in high grade. To see those kinds of books was really something and the idea of owning some of them seemed like the ultimate experience in comic collecting to me.

 

As I learnt more and more of these books weren't actually the amazing examples of preservation that I thought they were and more and more high graded copies were being produced from lower grades, it just destroyed the sense of excitement that I got from them before. Furthermore, since it was dificult to tell the genuine article from those that had been manipulated and CGC wouldn't distinguish between them, it made trying to collect the genuine unmanipulated high grade books a minefield.

 

The reason I always disliked pressing had absolutely nothing to do with what anyone else collected, it was because it killed the way I (and others) wanted to collect permanently.

 

I completely respect your right to collect the way you want.

 

It bothered me a bit when I first learned of the process, kind of like how it bothered me that so many good books were sold at conventions before the doors ever opened to the public.

 

Neither bothers me now and if a book looks great, it personally doesn't bother me if it had help getting there.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think anti-pressers hate pressing the same way people hate players that use steroids - to them it's a form of cheating. Steroids are now blatantly cheating since its against the rules but even before that it was frowned upon since it gave unfair advance to people who juiced. I think the hate for pressing stems from the same place.

 

Pressing is so obviously a form of restoration, that to deny it....is disingenuous at best.

 

It's not so much the practice itself that stirs hatred, but the all the lies & wildly_fanciful_statement we've been subjected to since the process was revealed.

You get a book that has a corner cover flap folded over. Is unfolding it also restoration?

 

 

We've discussed these scenarios ad nauseam over the years.

 

 

Hopefully someone with more patience than I will be along to address this.......

 

 

 

Thanks for your patience in helping folks who are newer than you learn more abo

 

Not trying to be a jerk. These discussions always get heated. Just trying to avoid another 20 pages of flame wars

[THE_BEYONDER]

Like some of the previous posters, I was also one of those people who was just blown away at the thought of decades old comics that had somehow survived to the present day in high grade. To see those kinds of books was really something and the idea of owning some of them seemed like the ultimate experience in comic collecting to me.

 

As I learnt more and more of these books weren't actually the amazing examples of preservation that I thought they were and more and more high graded copies were being produced from lower grades, it just destroyed the sense of excitement that I got from them before. Furthermore, since it was dificult to tell the genuine article from those that had been manipulated and CGC wouldn't distinguish between them, it made trying to collect the genuine unmanipulated high grade books a minefield.

 

The reason I always disliked pressing had absolutely nothing to do with what anyone else collected, it was because it killed the way I (and others) wanted to collect permanently.

 

I completely respect your right to collect the way you want.

 

It bothered me a bit when I first learned of the process, kind of like how it bothered me that so many good books were sold at conventions before the doors ever opened to the public.

 

Neither bothers me now and if a book looks great, it personally doesn't bother me if it had help getting there.

 

 

Do you now press books for profit & get access to the convention floor before the general public?

[Logan510]

Like some of the previous posters, I was also one of those people who was just blown away at the thought of decades old comics that had somehow survived to the present day in high grade. To see those kinds of books was really something and the idea of owning some of them seemed like the ultimate experience in comic collecting to me.

 

As I learnt more and more of these books weren't actually the amazing examples of preservation that I thought they were and more and more high graded copies were being produced from lower grades, it just destroyed the sense of excitement that I got from them before. Furthermore, since it was dificult to tell the genuine article from those that had been manipulated and CGC wouldn't distinguish between them, it made trying to collect the genuine unmanipulated high grade books a minefield.

 

The reason I always disliked pressing had absolutely nothing to do with what anyone else collected, it was because it killed the way I (and others) wanted to collect permanently.

 

I completely respect your right to collect the way you want.

 

It bothered me a bit when I first learned of the process, kind of like how it bothered me that so many good books were sold at conventions before the doors ever opened to the public.

 

Neither bothers me now and if a book looks great, it personally doesn't bother me if it had help getting there.

 

 

Do you now press books for profit & get access to the convention floor before the general public?

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Like some of the previous posters, I was also one of those people who was just blown away at the thought of decades old comics that had somehow survived to the present day in high grade. To see those kinds of books was really something and the idea of owning some of them seemed like the ultimate experience in comic collecting to me.

 

As I learnt more and more of these books weren't actually the amazing examples of preservation that I thought they were and more and more high graded copies were being produced from lower grades, it just destroyed the sense of excitement that I got from them before. Furthermore, since it was dificult to tell the genuine article from those that had been manipulated and CGC wouldn't distinguish between them, it made trying to collect the genuine unmanipulated high grade books a minefield.

 

The reason I always disliked pressing had absolutely nothing to do with what anyone else collected, it was because it killed the way I (and others) wanted to collect permanently.

 

I completely respect your right to collect the way you want.

 

It bothered me a bit when I first learned of the process, kind of like how it bothered me that so many good books were sold at conventions before the doors ever opened to the public.

 

Neither bothers me now and if a book looks great, it personally doesn't bother me if it had help getting there.

 

 

Do you now press books for profit & get access to the convention floor before the general public?

 

 

 

[jcjames]

I understand and I'm not trying to start arguments, I'm trying to learn and and asking questions is the best way for me.

 

What was said about using heat/humidity to flatten the paper fibers is interesting, but then the same could be said about re-folding a bent cornerflap over and setting a heavy book on it.

 

I'm very comfortable with the idea that adding or removing any of the original materials of the book is definitely restoration or conservation (that's also another discussion).

 

I'm just genuinely interested on where in the gray-zone does one draw the line between blowing dust off, dry-erasing a smudge, folding and flattening a bent cornerflap and pressing is. I think there definitely is a gray zone there and that's where opinions differ, and that's where discussion helps those who are newer to the hobby to learn.

 

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

I understand and I'm not trying to start arguments, I'm trying to learn and and asking questions is the best way for me.

 

What was said about using heat/humidity to flatten the paper fibers is interesting, but then the same could be said about re-folding a bent cornerflap over and setting a heavy book on it.

 

I'm very comfortable with the idea that adding or removing any of the original materials of the book is definitely restoration or conservation (that's also another discussion).

 

I'm just genuinely interested on where in the gray-zone does one draw the line between blowing dust off, dry-erasing a smudge, folding and flattening a bent cornerflap and pressing is. I think there definitely is a gray zone there and that's where opinions differ, and where discussion helps those who are newer to the hobby to learn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I look at it this way:

 

Did pressing remove the crease? Did removing the crease "restore" the book to a previous state?

 

The answer to both questions is "yes".

 

The "nothing added/nothing taken away" argument never held water for me.

 

But, if you must use it.....

 

Heat, moisture & pressure were added

 

The crease/bend/whatever was taken away

 

Pressing is restoration

[Logan510]

Like some of the previous posters, I was also one of those people who was just blown away at the thought of decades old comics that had somehow survived to the present day in high grade. To see those kinds of books was really something and the idea of owning some of them seemed like the ultimate experience in comic collecting to me.

 

As I learnt more and more of these books weren't actually the amazing examples of preservation that I thought they were and more and more high graded copies were being produced from lower grades, it just destroyed the sense of excitement that I got from them before. Furthermore, since it was dificult to tell the genuine article from those that had been manipulated and CGC wouldn't distinguish between them, it made trying to collect the genuine unmanipulated high grade books a minefield.

 

The reason I always disliked pressing had absolutely nothing to do with what anyone else collected, it was because it killed the way I (and others) wanted to collect permanently.

 

I completely respect your right to collect the way you want.

 

It bothered me a bit when I first learned of the process, kind of like how it bothered me that so many good books were sold at conventions before the doors ever opened to the public.

 

Neither bothers me now and if a book looks great, it personally doesn't bother me if it had help getting there.

 

 

Do you now press books for profit & get access to the convention floor before the general public?

 

 

 

 

If it makes you feel better I flip books so I can buy the books I want for myself.