Why do Anti-Pressers HATE pressing?

[VintageComics]

Another reason the book dropped in price is supply overcame demand.

 

Lot more out there than people first thought

 

Agreed. There is never just one factor changing the landscape for a high volume item.

 

Pressing alone didn't drop the price. Increase in supply did. As did other economic factors, like strong prices bringing more out of the woodwork.

 

[jimbo_707]

I've seen a lot of stong opinions by people for and against pressing.

 

I am just wondering what is the driving force/forces AGAINST pressing?

 

Is it:

 

A) Pressing could potentially harm the comic

B) Pressing floods the market with "High Grade" comics

C) Pressign is really the same thing as Undisclosed Restoration

D) I dont like seeing books I've sold pressed & flipped for more $ than I sold it for

E) Other...(please elaborate)

A is the main one. We know that heat damages comic books—most of us spend money on air conditioning every year to keep our comics cool—yet the pressers heat the books to extremely high temperatures.

 

I also think that pressing causes rusty staples, due to the fact that comic books are humidified before pressing. I have collected comics on and off your over 30 years, and I NEVER saw so many books with rusty staples as what I've seen since the CPR phase began. There may be a delay—the rust may not show up for weeks or months—but it will show up.

 

So, if I'm conned into buying a pressed book, I'm actually paying a higher price for a book that will eventually turn into a pile of garbage.

[namisgr]

Haters gonna hate. Anti-pressers are just trying to be the 'purest of collectors' like that makes them superior or something

 

This. All this.

 

I am a better collector than you!

 

Hardly.

 

Personally, I get the biggest kick out of comics that have survived the many decades that have passed in extraordinary condition, and looking as they did when they left the hands of their original owners. Manipulated books that received higher third party numerical grades, and in so doing are no longer preserved like they once were, don't pack the same thrill for me. I don't see how the way I prefer to collect old high grade books is linked in any way to what any other collector feels about their own collections and what thrills them.

 

In response to the rampant growth of pressing in the hobby, I spent five years liquidating my high grade SA collection. That's done now, leaving me with a BA picture frame Marvel collection, a lone slabbed high grade Marvel key, a few thousand unslabbed books most of which I bought off the rack over 30-40 years ago, and no desire to own bunches of manipulated books or see what effects the growth of manipulation is having upon the high grade vintage collecting portion of the hobby.

 

I'm certainly not the only once-serious collector of vintage high grade who soured at the effects of rampant manipulation and, in response, de-emphasized collecting these books or quit doing so entirely.

[pickycollector]

Pressing alone didn't drop the price. Increase in supply did. As did other economic factors, like strong prices bringing more out of the woodwork.

Pressing did increase the supply of high grade books.

 

Increase in supply did drop the price.

 

If A = B and B = C, then A = C

 

[pickycollector]

And for a pressing thread. It's like 2009 all over again

Hah, bring me some 2009 pressing threads

[seanfingh]

Haters gonna hate. Anti-pressers are just trying to be the 'purest of collectors' like that makes them superior or something

 

I want to address this, as I think it is a super unfair characterization. I have never been anti-pressing. It took me many years after learning about the process before I pressed some books (and at the time there were only a couple of places that could do it). Now, I do it all the time. I have sold books for more money, and I have higher grade in my collection.

 

But it has done something to me as a collector, and I mean this with the greatest amount of sincerity - I don't love high grade comics the way I once did. If I got a gorgeous NM Bronze book off ebay in the 1999-2002 era, it was one of the greatest collecting feelings I could have. I knew at that point that this book had been shepherded or stewarded into the new millennium and had somehow staved off the ravages of time.

 

Now, I know that a damaged book, with the right kind of damage can be transmogrified into a high grade book via pressing. I know because I have done it dozens and dozens of times. I still don't feel there is anything wrong with the procedure, but sometimes I wish I could turn back the hands of time and unlearn the whole thing. The "innocence" of playing in the raw high grade end of the pool was pretty awesome, and I am not sure that all the extra bread was worth it.

 

So when I look at some of the guys that are 10-15 years older than I am, I can't even imagine what it must be like to see all these high grade being "created" in 2016.

 

--S.

[PovertyRow]

We know that heat damages comic books—most of us spend money on air conditioning every year to keep our comics cool—yet the pressers heat the books to extremely high temperatures.

 

I also think that pressing causes rusty staples, due to the fact that comic books are humidified before pressing. I have collected comics on and off your over 30 years, and I NEVER saw so many books with rusty staples as what I've seen since the CPR phase began. There may be a delay—the rust may not show up for weeks or months—but it will show up.

 

So, if I'm conned into buying a pressed book, I'm actually paying a higher price for a book that will eventually turn into a pile of garbage.

 

TIME is a key factor you left out. When pressed PROPERLY, the brief amount of time is not a factor in longevity. It is far too brief. And you cite "extremely high temperatures" but a properly pressed book will not use extremely high temperatures. Same with the humidification. Only moderate humidification is used.

 

As far as your assertions that the rust will show up in weeks or months: have you documented that? Have you seen a batch of PROPERLY pressed books with before/after imaging over time to demonstrate this disintegration?

 

Pressed books are like toupees: the bad ones are easy to spot.

[Ryan.]

transmogrified

 

[kav]

Rust happens in real time. All the rusting that will happen from pressing will happen during pressing. Staples do not 'absorb' moisture to be slowly parceled out into rust.

[1Cool]

I think anti-pressers hate pressing the same way people hate players that use steroids - to them it's a form of cheating. Steroids are now blatantly cheating since its against the rules but even before that it was frowned upon since it gave unfair advance to people who juiced. I think the hate for pressing stems from the same place.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Haters gonna hate. Anti-pressers are just trying to be the 'purest of collectors' like that makes them superior or something

 

I want to address this, as I think it is a super unfair characterization. I have never been anti-pressing. It took me many years after learning about the process before I pressed some books (and at the time there were only a couple of places that could do it). Now, I do it all the time. I have sold books for more money, and I have higher grade in my collection.

 

But it has done something to me as a collector, and I mean this with the greatest amount of sincerity - I don't love high grade comics the way I once did. If I got a gorgeous NM Bronze book off ebay in the 1999-2002 era, it was one of the greatest collecting feelings I could have. I knew at that point that this book had been shepherded or stewarded into the new millennium and had somehow staved off the ravages of time.

 

Now, I know that a damaged book, with the right kind of damage can be transmogrified into a high grade book via pressing. I know because I have done it dozens and dozens of times. I still don't feel there is anything wrong with the procedure, but sometimes I wish I could turn back the hands of time and unlearn the whole thing. The "innocence" of playing in the raw high grade end of the pool was pretty awesome, and I am not sure that all the extra bread was worth it.

 

So when I look at some of the guys that are 10-15 years older than I am, I can't even imagine what it must be like to see all these high grade being "created" in 2016.

 

--S.

This is one of THE best posts I have ever read on these forums.

[comicdonna]

Haters gonna hate. Anti-pressers are just trying to be the 'purest of collectors' like that makes them superior or something

 

I want to address this, as I think it is a super unfair characterization. I have never been anti-pressing. It took me many years after learning about the process before I pressed some books (and at the time there were only a couple of places that could do it). Now, I do it all the time. I have sold books for more money, and I have higher grade in my collection.

 

But it has done something to me as a collector, and I mean this with the greatest amount of sincerity - I don't love high grade comics the way I once did. If I got a gorgeous NM Bronze book off ebay in the 1999-2002 era, it was one of the greatest collecting feelings I could have. I knew at that point that this book had been shepherded or stewarded into the new millennium and had somehow staved off the ravages of time.

 

Now, I know that a damaged book, with the right kind of damage can be transmogrified into a high grade book via pressing. I know because I have done it dozens and dozens of times. I still don't feel there is anything wrong with the procedure, but sometimes I wish I could turn back the hands of time and unlearn the whole thing. The "innocence" of playing in the raw high grade end of the pool was pretty awesome, and I am not sure that all the extra bread was worth it.

 

So when I look at some of the guys that are 10-15 years older than I am, I can't even imagine what it must be like to see all these high grade being "created" in 2016.

 

--S.

This is a good post.

[grayzr]

Another reason the book dropped in price is supply overcame demand.

 

Lot more out there than people first thought

 

Why has walking dead #1 9.8 continued to increase in price over the years?

I remember when there was less then 500 on the census now there is over 2000 and the price continues to go up

 

I can't claim to have my finger on the pulse of that book, but the discussions I've seen lately have all focused on the holding pattern in WD #1 with a slight downward trend. When was the last time WD #1 sold for the latest record price? I don't think it is very recent.

 

Yes the book is not shooting through the roof atm but it has been slowly increasing in price over the last few years so to say its on a downward trend doesn't make sense.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I have pressed thousands of books in the last 6 years. I am amazed...truly...at what is possible. I get a lot of heat from people when I discuss this process with others, because they think I am bragging about what *I* can do. I am not. I'm simply amazed that it's possible, and what can be done, what these fragile, old pieces of paper, paper that was made to be discarded, can do when coaxed just the right way.

 

Restoration is only frowned upon so much in the "younger hobbies" of comic collecting, sports cards, and the like. In other collector fields, restoration isn't only seen as not bad, but vital to the preservation of certain works that otherwise would be lost to time.

 

Yes, pressing can be a rough venture. And yes, I can and do appreciate the fact that a book survived 20, 30, 40, 50 years with next to no damage. But the balance is this: a worn out piece of rag is still a worn out piece of rag, and all the pressing in the world won't change that. A beautiful, untouched copy, on the other hand, that has a small indentation in the corner doesn't need to have that flaw, and I can make it not be there....and the book is a little better than it was.

 

Pressing isn't magic. It's just help. Aside from situations so rare, they defy all odds, you're not going to turn 6.5s into 9.8s. Even aside from rare situations, you're not going to turn a 9.0 into a 9.8.

 

The underlying copy has already got to be a thing of beauty in the first place. I'm not smashing a book into perfection that wasn't pretty close to it already. Pressing....proper pressing...is an art.

 

And when I'm done, I can say "look at how well this copy survived 50 years in such beautiful condition! Yes, I smoothed out the overflash a bit, and removed a small bend or finger dent, but look how beautiful the book was when it started!" Because let's face it...it's paper, and it's old, and it was never meant to last. How does anyone know that the Batman #171 that is an unpressed 9.6 didn't sustain a small impact bend in one of the corners over the years and someone put it under a stack of encyclopedias for a few years?

 

You don't. So, rather than being saddened by the fact that a book may not have survived all these years without a ding or two that has now been smoothed out, one can still take pleasure in seeing just how well it DID survive, over all. And that's pretty nifty.

 

Is it amazing to hold a coin from 1882 and see it just as the day it was minted? Of course. It's amazing. Totally. But it's also amazing to see a coin that sat on the bottom of the ocean for 150 years be gently coaxed back into its original form by skilled hands. Both situations are pretty amazing. The one who presses very well is an artist just as much as the one who restores the paining, or the 1936 Studebaker, or the one who does professional work on comics.

 

It's all in your perspective.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think anti-pressers hate pressing the same way people hate players that use steroids - to them it's a form of cheating. Steroids are now blatantly cheating since its against the rules but even before that it was frowned upon since it gave unfair advance to people who juiced. I think the hate for pressing stems from the same place.

 

Pressing is so obviously a form of restoration, that to deny it....is disingenuous at best.

 

It's not so much the practice itself that stirs hatred, but the all the lies & wildly_fanciful_statement we've been subjected to since the process was revealed.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have pressed thousands of books in the last 6 years. I am amazed...truly...at what is possible. I get a lot of heat from people when I discuss this process with others, because they think I am bragging about what *I* can do. I am not. I'm simply amazed that it's possible, and what can be done, what these fragile, old pieces of paper, paper that was made to be discarded, can do when coaxed just the right way.

 

Restoration is only frowned upon so much in the "younger hobbies" of comic collecting, sports cards, and the like. In other collector fields, restoration isn't only seen as not bad, but vital to the preservation of certain works that otherwise would be lost to time.

 

Yes, pressing can be a rough venture. And yes, I can and do appreciate the fact that a book survived 20, 30, 40, 50 years with next to no damage. But the balance is this: a worn out piece of rag is still a worn out piece of rag, and all the pressing in the world won't change that. A beautiful, untouched copy, on the other hand, that has a small indentation in the corner doesn't need to have that flaw, and I can make it not be there....and the book is a little better than it was.

 

Pressing isn't magic. It's just help. Aside from situations so rare, they defy all odds, you're not going to turn 6.5s into 9.8s. Even aside from rare situations, you're not going to turn a 9.0 into a 9.8.

 

The underlying copy has already got to be a thing of beauty in the first place. I'm not smashing a book into perfection that wasn't pretty close to it already. Pressing....proper pressing...is an art.

 

And when I'm done, I can say "look at how well this copy survived 50 years in such beautiful condition! Yes, I smoothed out the overflash a bit, and removed a small bend or finger dent, but look how beautiful the book was when it started!" Because let's face it...it's paper, and it's old, and it was never meant to last. How does anyone know that the Batman #171 that is an unpressed 9.6 didn't sustain a small impact bend in one of the corners over the years and someone put it under a stack of encyclopedias for a few years?

 

You don't. So, rather than being saddened by the fact that a book may not have survived all these years without a ding or two that has now been smoothed out, one can still take pleasure in seeing just how well it DID survive, over all. And that's pretty nifty.

 

Is it amazing to hold a coin from 1882 and see it just as the day it was minted? Of course. It's amazing. Totally. But it's also amazing to see a coin that sat on the bottom of the ocean for 150 years be gently coaxed back into its original form by skilled hands. Both situations are pretty amazing. The one who presses very well is an artist just as much as the one who restores the paining, or the 1936 Studebaker, or the one who does professional work on comics.

 

It's all in your perspective.

 

Nice circle jerk

[jcjames]

I think anti-pressers hate pressing the same way people hate players that use steroids - to them it's a form of cheating. Steroids are now blatantly cheating since its against the rules but even before that it was frowned upon since it gave unfair advance to people who juiced. I think the hate for pressing stems from the same place.

 

Pressing is so obviously a form of restoration, that to deny it....is disingenuous at best.

 

It's not so much the practice itself that stirs hatred, but the all the lies & wildly_fanciful_statement we've been subjected to since the process was revealed.

You get a book that has a corner cover flap folded over. Is unfolding it also restoration?

 

 

[gaz973]

I think anti-pressers hate pressing the same way people hate players that use steroids - to them it's a form of cheating. Steroids are now blatantly cheating since its against the rules but even before that it was frowned upon since it gave unfair advance to people who juiced. I think the hate for pressing stems from the same place.

 

Pressing is so obviously a form of restoration, that to deny it....is disingenuous at best.

 

It's not so much the practice itself that stirs hatred, but the all the lies & wildly_fanciful_statement we've been subjected to since the process was revealed.

You get a book that has a corner cover flap folded over. Is unfolding it also restoration?

 

No, the damage caused by the crease is still there.

[comicdonna]

I think anti-pressers hate pressing the same way people hate players that use steroids - to them it's a form of cheating. Steroids are now blatantly cheating since its against the rules but even before that it was frowned upon since it gave unfair advance to people who juiced. I think the hate for pressing stems from the same place.

 

Pressing is so obviously a form of restoration, that to deny it....is disingenuous at best.

 

It's not so much the practice itself that stirs hatred, but the all the lies & wildly_fanciful_statement we've been subjected to since the process was revealed.

You get a book that has a corner cover flap folded over. Is unfolding it also restoration?

 

No. Pressing with heat, and humidity is, IMO. It changes the paper fibers.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think anti-pressers hate pressing the same way people hate players that use steroids - to them it's a form of cheating. Steroids are now blatantly cheating since its against the rules but even before that it was frowned upon since it gave unfair advance to people who juiced. I think the hate for pressing stems from the same place.

 

Pressing is so obviously a form of restoration, that to deny it....is disingenuous at best.

 

It's not so much the practice itself that stirs hatred, but the all the lies & wildly_fanciful_statement we've been subjected to since the process was revealed.

You get a book that has a corner cover flap folded over. Is unfolding it also restoration?

 

 

We've discussed these scenarios ad nauseam over the years.

 

 

Hopefully someone with more patience than I will be along to address this.......