So there are more TMNT #1`s in existent then Action 1 and Detective 27 combined?

[MR.COMICBOOK]

I have been told that even though TMNT #1 first print has a low print run of 3000 copies that it`s still more than the combined copies of Action 1-10 and Detective 27-37 combined that still exist. is this true? if it is how could comicbooks with gigantic print runs be so rare? Golden age keys than are a lot rarer than I thought if they make TMNT#1 look like a common modern.

[TheWatcher]

Because kids back then read the comics, shared them with friends, rolled them up and put them in their back pockets, didn't look at comics as commodities to be preserved for a future payoff, had war time paper drives that destroyed many books

[fantastic_four]

war time paper drives that destroyed many books

 

This is the big reason.

[rjpb]

I'm not sure this is true, both Action 1 & Detective 27 show around 40 copies in the census including Poor copies, but what is telling is how few of these copies are in G/VG or less. Given that many long time dealers believe that G/VG is the median grade for early GA books, that would indicate that nicer copies are more heavily represented, and it is known that there are some very nice copies of these books that remain unslabbed.

 

While I can't say for sure, it's a fairly safe bet that there are still over 100 existing copies of both these books. Extrapolate that to all 21 issues in question and you are already at a minimum of 2100 copies. While the majority of the 3000 copy run of TMNT 1st print are likely still around, some have likely been tossed or destroyed over the year. It may be close, but I don't think anyone could make the claim with certainty that there are more existing copies of the Turtle book than Action 1-10 & Tec 27-37 combined.

 

But the larger point is taken, regardless of the actual numbers any given issue of these early GA books are far more scarce than even the low print run independents of the copper age. That might have something to do with why even beater copies of the non-key books sell for four figures and up.

[the blob]

100 copies each of Action 1 and Detective 27 doesn't seem far fetched at all. I would think there are more than 100 each. Particularly of Detective 27, which was an established title. Seriously, they're expensive because of what they are, not because they're so "rare". Someone who has had one of these in their collection for 20 or 30 years isn't necessarily going to go out and slab them to then stick them back in the vault.

 

Look at relatively early Four Colors (true, series 2 is a couple of years after these 2 DC books), it's not like those are terribly hard to find either. Heck, I own a copy of Four Color #1, big whoopdeedo! Four Color may have had bigger print-runs, but they were subject to the same trashing and war paper drives.

[VintageComics]

There's more than 100 each of Action #1 and Detectve # 27. Lots more. I'd put money on it.

[Bronty]

for sure. Even still, let's say the number is 300, which I think is a better guess. That would still mean that there are probably about the same # of tmnt 1's as action 1-10 all combined... does put things in perspective.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have been told that even though TMNT #1 first print has a low print run of 3000 copies that it`s still more than the combined copies of Action 1-10 and Detective 27-37 combined that still exist. is this true? if it is how could comicbooks with gigantic print runs be so rare? Golden age keys than are a lot rarer than I thought if they make TMNT#1 look like a common modern.

 

Which part? You have two different questions in your original post.

 

If it's ONLY Detective #27, and Action #1, then:

 

God yes.

 

Absolutely.

 

I'd be really surprised if more than 10% of the entire run of Turtles #1 has been lost to time. It was nearly an instant hit, and became very valuable, in a very short period of time.

 

Whereas, Action #1 and Detective combied, I'd be real surprised if .2% (notice the point) of their respective print runs survived.

 

If, however, it's the COMBINED total of Action #1-10, and Detective #27-37, I'd say, averaging 150 copies survival rate per issue....which is a total guesstimate, but not an entirely uneducated one...then there are likely more copies total of Action #1-10 AND Tec #27-37 than Turtles #1.

[RockMyAmadeus]

There's more than 100 each of Action #1 and Detectve # 27. Lots more. I'd put money on it.

 

Me too.

 

In fact, my estimate is 200 for Action #1 and 300 for Tec #27.

[Schmakt]

I think this thread is really cool... I never would have made the comparison in my mind before. Thanks!

[kimik]

There's more than 100 each of Action #1 and Detectve # 27. Lots more. I'd put money on it.

 

Definitely. Rick has owned almost that many copies over the past 5 years.

[G.A.tor]

There's more than 100 each of Action #1 and Detectve # 27. Lots more. I'd put money on it.

 

Definitely. Rick has owned almost that many copies over the past 5 years.

 

I would say 75-100ish copies of action 1 and maybe 75-100+ of Detective 27...

 

books that have that kind of value, tend not to stay hidden for too long... my guess is that most long time GA folks have seen a good # of action 1's and tec 27's...but that, like happens on this board, most of them (the comics) are just recirculating from one to another...

 

for there to be about 40 of each cgc'd, given their value, would only represent 1/2 of my estimate, and IMO, at least 50% of folks that have them, would (like me) want them slabbed... I think that is a pretty safe bet

[rjpb]

There's more than 100 each of Action #1 and Detectve # 27. Lots more. I'd put money on it.

 

Me too.

 

In fact, my estimate is 200 for Action #1 and 300 for Tec #27.

 

What were the relative print runs of Action #1 and Tec #27? I'd heard 150,000 for Action #1 somewhere, but haven't seen any figure for Tec #27. There are fairly equivelent numbers of both in the census, and I would imagine that surviving percentages of each print run would be pretty similar.

[tth2]

I'd be really surprised if more than 10% of the entire run of Turtles #1 has been lost to time. It was nearly an instant hit, and became very valuable, in a very short period of time.

I'd be really surprised if more than 1% of the Turtles #1 1st prints have been lost or destroyed. It would be staggering if 10%, or 300 copies, had disappeared.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The number quoted for Action #1 is always 200,000 copies.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I'd be really surprised if more than 10% of the entire run of Turtles #1 has been lost to time. It was nearly an instant hit, and became very valuable, in a very short period of time.

I'd be really surprised if more than 1% of the Turtles #1 1st prints have been lost or destroyed. It would be staggering if 10%, or 300 copies, had disappeared.

 

Well, yes, but I was, as always, hedging just in case.

 

 

I'd bet the number is somewhere between 1%-10%. 30 copies seems awful low, to account for reader tossing and spoilage....there were, even by 1984, people who still just bought comcis, read them, and then tossed them.

 

Strange as it may seem to us....

[kimik]

Wasn't there some speculation that the print run of TMNT #1 was higher than 300?

[Bronty]

typo I assume. Its 3000. and no there was never any such spec that I've heard

[tth2]

30 copies seems awful low, to account for reader tossing and spoilage....there were, even by 1984, people who still just bought comcis, read them, and then tossed them.

For your average comic book that was still sold through regular retail channels to casual readers, yes. But that's not how TMNT #1 was sold and that wasn't the audience that purchased those early copies.

 

Plus, it became popular pretty quickly and the price of a 1st edition skyrocketed.

[RockMyAmadeus]

30 copies seems awful low, to account for reader tossing and spoilage....there were, even by 1984, people who still just bought comcis, read them, and then tossed them.

For your average comic book that was still sold through regular retail channels to casual readers, yes. But that's not how TMNT #1 was sold and that wasn't the audience that purchased those early copies.

 

Plus, it became popular pretty quickly and the price of a 1st edition skyrocketed.

 

All true, especially the point about early value, which I mentioned above.

 

But Turtles #1 DID sell on comic book store shelves.

 

The guy who got the 9.8, for example, had to be convinced by the store owner to buy one (at cover price.) He managed to keep it, but he just as easily could have read it and tossed it.

 

But, until we can get an accurate count of extant copies, it could be as little as zero copies have been lost to time, or as many as 1000. Who knows?