The Most Overpriced Art???

[tonytiger]

Is there any doubt that Peanuts would take this top position.

 

 

[Claudio]

there is doubt.

[thehumantorch]

Is there any doubt that Peanuts would take this top position.

 

 

Can't agree. Love Peanuts art.

[comix4fun]

Is there any doubt that Peanuts would take this top position.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh wait, are you serious?

[Bronty]

Aw come on guys, I like peanuts too but its overpriced for what it is. Exit the estate being an active buyer and the prices would be a lot cheaper. Plenty of strips that I like just as much can be had for a fraction.

 

Would I call it the most overpriced art ever, no.. but if values were 50% of what they are now that would be a lot saner in my view.

[tonytiger]

Aw come on guys, I like peanuts too but its overpriced for what it is. Exit the estate being an active buyer and the prices would be a lot cheaper. Plenty of strips that I like just as much can be had for a fraction.

 

Would I call it the most overpriced art ever, no.. but if values were 50% of what they are now that would be a lot saner in my view.

 

 

The bulk of the market is shill bidding against Schultz's widow.

[Bronty]

exactly. I mean its a great strip and well loved because of the longevity, but 100k for a sunday is bananas. 30, 40, 50k relative to other pieces I could understand but at 100k I agree with you that its overpriced relative to the rest of the market

 

I think our Great Pumpkin invitations just got misplaced btw

 

 

--- so what does everyone else think is overpriced?

[comix4fun]

It just never makes sense to me to call something "overpriced" when we are talking about 1) unique items and 2) items that are selling (through sale and auction) at the prices that are then being deemed "overpriced".

 

The art that is "overpriced" is the art that does not sell, doesn't get bidders at auction, and languishes on dealer sites for years on end.

 

Anything that can and does sell at a fixed price or at auction is by definition not "overpriced". If it were, it would not continue find a buyer over and over and over again.

 

While I will agree Peanuts has seen an amazing spurt of price increase, over the last 10 years especially, I can't say that the pieces are overpriced until we see prices decline or pieces failing to sell.

 

Even with the Estate in play you need an underbidder to reach the final bid. There seem to be plenty of underbidders for Peanuts.

 

Best,

Chris

[comix4fun]

Aw come on guys, I like peanuts too but its overpriced for what it is. Exit the estate being an active buyer and the prices would be a lot cheaper. Plenty of strips that I like just as much can be had for a fraction.

 

Would I call it the most overpriced art ever, no.. but if values were 50% of what they are now that would be a lot saner in my view.

 

 

The bulk of the market is shill bidding against Schultz's widow.

 

 

Do you have any idea how few pieces the Estate has actually bid on at public auction in the last 2 years?

 

They might have been in most auctions several years ago, but that's not the case anymore.

 

Also, anytime I hear about grand conspiracy theories like this one that are supposed to stretch across several auction houses, over several years, involving several hundred thousand dollars, and several shill bidders all willing to enter into illegal activities to cost someone, that they are not even sure is involved in the bidding, money I tend to get just a wee bit skeptical. Especially from unsigned posts on a message board.

 

Best,

Chris

 

 

[Bronty]

It just never makes sense to me to call something "overpriced" when we are talking about 1) unique items and 2) items that are selling (through sale and auction) at the prices that are then being deemed "overpriced".

 

The art that is "overpriced" is the art that does not sell, doesn't get bidders at auction, and languishes on dealer sites for years on end.

 

Anything that can and does sell at a fixed price or at auction is by definition not "overpriced". If it were, it would not continue find a buyer over and over and over again.

 

While I will agree Peanuts has seen an amazing spurt of price increase, over the last 10 years especially, I can't say that the pieces are overpriced until we see prices decline or pieces failing to sell.

 

Even with the Estate in play you need an underbidder to reach the final bid. There seem to be plenty of underbidders for Peanuts.

 

Best,

Chris

 

unclench the law muscles will ya ?

 

at the end of the day collectibles pricing generally comes down to, quite simply, how nice an item is it? (barring unique situations like this, or extreme rarity). Yes everyone's taste is different, but for the most part people can generally agree on these things. Most everyone would rather have a ditko spidey cover than a ditko ghostly haunts cover. Its just cooler on your wall and so the price reflects that. For what you have to pay for a nice peanuts, I think you can get something better, because the existence of the estate throws the value proposition off for all but the most ardent peanuts lovers

[Bronty]

Aw come on guys, I like peanuts too but its overpriced for what it is. Exit the estate being an active buyer and the prices would be a lot cheaper. Plenty of strips that I like just as much can be had for a fraction.

 

Would I call it the most overpriced art ever, no.. but if values were 50% of what they are now that would be a lot saner in my view.

 

 

The bulk of the market is shill bidding against Schultz's widow.

 

 

Do you have any idea how few pieces the Estate has actually bid on at public auction in the last 2 years?

 

They might have been in most auctions several years ago, but that's not the case anymore.

 

Also, anytime I hear about grand conspiracy theories like this one that are supposed to stretch across several auction houses, over several years, involving several hundred thousand dollars, and several shill bidders all willing to enter into illegal activities to cost someone, that they are not even sure is involved in the bidding, money I tend to get just a wee bit skeptical. Especially from unsigned posts on a message board.

 

Best,

Chris

 

 

If the estate is done buying then honestly my expectation would be that prices will come back down slowly or at least stop going up. I certainly don't know the market all that well other than what I watch going on at heritage. But to me the value proposition is JUST not there.

 

Dan

[comix4fun]

Aw come on guys, I like peanuts too but its overpriced for what it is. Exit the estate being an active buyer and the prices would be a lot cheaper. Plenty of strips that I like just as much can be had for a fraction.

 

Would I call it the most overpriced art ever, no.. but if values were 50% of what they are now that would be a lot saner in my view.

 

 

The bulk of the market is shill bidding against Schultz's widow.

 

 

Do you have any idea how few pieces the Estate has actually bid on at public auction in the last 2 years?

 

They might have been in most auctions several years ago, but that's not the case anymore.

 

Also, anytime I hear about grand conspiracy theories like this one that are supposed to stretch across several auction houses, over several years, involving several hundred thousand dollars, and several shill bidders all willing to enter into illegal activities to cost someone, that they are not even sure is involved in the bidding, money I tend to get just a wee bit skeptical. Especially from unsigned posts on a message board.

 

Best,

Chris

 

 

If the estate is done buying then honestly my expectation would be that prices will come back down slowly or at least stop going up. I certainly don't know the market all that well other than what I watch going on at heritage. But to me the value proposition is JUST not there.

 

Dan

 

 

I wasn't directing the "unsigned post" thing at you BTW. You know your stuff and I know you are not a shill.

 

I agree that personal value on these things varies a great deal. Most folks can't hit these numbers that the Sundays are up to. I can't, I won't.

 

I don't think the Estate is done buying, maybe being more selective about eras, composition and subject matter. Not done though.

 

The thing that I was getting at with underbidders, and there are a lot of them on Peanuts auctions obviously, is that if the market for vintage Sundays was $20k and only the Estate was willing to bid $50k, the pieces would not all get to $50k. They would only reach an increment above $20k.

 

I don't buy secret society tinfoil hat conspiracies that every auction result on Peanuts is won by the estate and every underbidder is a shill. It's just not the case.

 

Peanuts, as a piece of Americana, is tough to beat. I know several hard core Super Hero Only OA collectors who feel their collection is not complete without a Peanuts piece. That's a pretty common theme across this hobby. The respect for Peanuts and the feeling that it's a lynch pin of the hobby is something pretty much everyone agrees.

 

There is a lot A LOT of modern art that is dramatically overpriced. I just have a hard time lumping Peanuts in with them.

 

Best,

Chris

[Overthetopinc]

Chris you don't need to apologize what you said is 100% correct.

When I talked to the musuem years back when I had an original they were trying to buy them back and were very upset with what it was costing them. I doubt they really care if the originals go for the kinda money they do other then in a negative way because of wanting to buy them back. They gets lots of $$$$$$$ and are not in some global consiparacy to raise the prices on originals.

As always Chris your posts are right on the money

thanks,

Matthew

[aardvark88]

If one plays the new hot artist market, you can get burned. e.g. Liefeld's complete OA to the top selling X-force #1 (sold twice as many copies as Todd's Spider-man #1, and guaranteed to keep going up and UP in Ostreet) hammered at about $36k 1 month after comic was published at Sotheby's. Roll the dice.

[Claudio]

If one plays the new hot artist market, you can get burned. e.g. Liefeld's complete OA to the top selling X-force #1 (sold twice as many copies as Todd's Spider-man #1, and guaranteed to keep going up and UP in Ostreet) hammered at about $36k 1 month after comic was published at Sotheby's. Roll the dice.

So, you think it's worth les now?

[Bronty]

[Bronty]

Aw come on guys, I like peanuts too but its overpriced for what it is. Exit the estate being an active buyer and the prices would be a lot cheaper. Plenty of strips that I like just as much can be had for a fraction.

 

Would I call it the most overpriced art ever, no.. but if values were 50% of what they are now that would be a lot saner in my view.

 

 

The bulk of the market is shill bidding against Schultz's widow.

 

 

Do you have any idea how few pieces the Estate has actually bid on at public auction in the last 2 years?

 

They might have been in most auctions several years ago, but that's not the case anymore.

 

Also, anytime I hear about grand conspiracy theories like this one that are supposed to stretch across several auction houses, over several years, involving several hundred thousand dollars, and several shill bidders all willing to enter into illegal activities to cost someone, that they are not even sure is involved in the bidding, money I tend to get just a wee bit skeptical. Especially from unsigned posts on a message board.

 

Best,

Chris

 

 

If the estate is done buying then honestly my expectation would be that prices will come back down slowly or at least stop going up. I certainly don't know the market all that well other than what I watch going on at heritage. But to me the value proposition is JUST not there.

 

Dan

 

 

I wasn't directing the "unsigned post" thing at you BTW. You know your stuff

 

 

you're probably giving me too much credit I didn't really take the unsigned post thing as being directed at me. More just because I don't think tonytiger's a shill either? whatever. Not a biggie, just a fun discussion and ultimately I know you're more tuned in with this stuff than I am. Nontheless for my money peanuts is overpriced. Sounds like you feel the same way to an extent

[Nexus]

The art that is "overpriced" is the art that does not sell, doesn't get bidders at auction, and languishes on dealer sites for years on end.

 

Bingo (thumbs u

 

If it's selling (especially at auction), then it's not overpriced. It might be more than you or I would want to spend, but that alone does not make something "overpriced".

 

Silver Age splashes with six-figure price tags? Most likely overpriced. How many have actually sold (for cold, hard CASH not trade or cash/trade) at that level? Of the two most recent examples to appear on dealers sites, one just got less than half at auction, and the other still sits unsold. Pretty clear case of "overpriced", to me.

[CollectingFool]

The key issue is that the popularity of Peanuts is so great that the market extends beyond the comic art market. Non comic art buyers are willing to pay good money for Peanuts strips and it is much more a part of the fabric of pop culture than superhero art.

 

The family isn't the only buyer. Far from it. Their limit has been exceeded on many auctions so don't think it's all shills trying to get more money from Mrs. Schulz. As a matter of fact, I know if she feels that's happened to her she'll flat out stop buying from that seller or that venue completely.

 

Simple truth is the larger the pool of potential buyers, the better the chance is of prices going higher. Why do you think crappy comic pages sell so much better than some amazingly drawn older strip art? No nostalgia effect and the pieces aren't that well known. Smaller pool of buyers for strip art (in general) means smaller prices regardless of quality. Same goes for regular comic art vs Peanuts.

 

As for what I think is the most overpriced? I think mainstream comic art is on a runaway train and as much as I love it, Kirby art is just insane. Pages that people were flat out ignoring at $1500 a few years ago are well into the $10K+ range. That's just nuts.

[jjonahjameson1]

Is there any doubt that Peanuts would take this top position.

 

 

Honestly, I don't understand the appeal/prices on Krazy Kat strips. To me, their more overpriced relative to Peanuts art.