PQ impact on grading

[etanick]

I am just curious if there is some rule of thumb I can use as far as PQ is concerned to look at raw books. For example, a cream PQ regardless of how perfect a book is will not get higher than a 9.2? I have 2 really nice 9.2 in a slab that I am guessing if the PQ was better, the grades would have been higher.

 

I have some old books that are tan, cream, and many other shades but ow or w. I am guessing that if a book is tan, the best I can hope for is a 7.0 if all else is near perfect, etc..

 

TIA

 

 

[Boozad]

There is a book on here somewhere (a Copper book) that has COW pages and sits in a 9.8 holder.

 

I'm not sure about tan, but 9.2s won't be affected by PQ if it's COW or better.

[etanick]

thanks Gav

[Boozad]

You're welcome Nick (thumbs u

[HD]

This may also help (it is not exhaustive, but a good start):

 

http://www.bipcomics.com/showcase/CGCWhiteness/

[etanick]

cool..thanks (thumbs u

I didn't know there were such things as light tan or dark tan.

[divad]

Fixed that for ya!

[divad]

There is a book on here somewhere (a Copper book) that has COW pages and sits in a 9.8 holder.

 

I'm not sure about tan, but 9.2s won't be affected by PQ if it's COW or better.

 

Well . . . not to be picky, but here's how I think it works. PQ always has an impact on a book's grade. Even though you cite as an example a 9.8 book with COW pages, that must be one helluva nice book for its impact to only be .1 or .2. The example doesn't mean that COW is "allowed" or "not allowed" in 9.8's, it means that for this book, that was the given grade.

 

Throughout the grade ranges COW PQ (or less) has an impact on the final grade, and is subject to the grader's opinion. Although the PQ is noted separately, it is considered in the overall evaluation of a book's grade.

 

Personally, I generally knock off a half a point for COW for all books which are structurally 9.0 and under. CGC is often harsher than this. Tan or brittle pages even more so.

[Mr. Zipper]

I generally knock off a half a point for COW for all books which are structurally 9.0 and under. CGC is often harsher than this. Tan or brittle pages even more so.

 

Really? I was not aware that C/OW had any impact on CGC Grade other than at the highest levels... especially hard to believe it does on early Silver Age and older.

 

 

Although I do agree that any tan designation does impact the numerical grade in most cases.

[Sal]

isn't it Light Tan that keeps a book from being graded higher than 8.5?

 

there was a double cover Hulk that belonged to BlowUpTheMoon, I think that had LT/ow that was a 9.6 book otherwise that got an 8.5

[Green]

isn't it Light Tan that keeps a book from being graded higher than 8.5?

 

there was a double cover Hulk that belonged to BlowUpTheMoon, I think that had LT/ow that was a 9.6 book otherwise that got an 8.5

Yes

another thing to consider is 'haloing' . Halos are slammed pretty hard. Ive seen books that were otherwise 9.4 get bumped to 8.0 due to page haloing.

[divad]

I generally knock off a half a point for COW for all books which are structurally 9.0 and under. CGC is often harsher than this. Tan or brittle pages even more so.

 

Really? I was not aware that C/OW had any impact on CGC Grade other than at the highest levels... especially hard to believe it does on early Silver Age and older.

 

 

Although I do agree that any tan designation does impact the numerical grade in most cases.

 

Never mind what it does to resale potential . . .

[crazyhips]

i don't think pq knocks off near as much as is should. the exterior is definitely given the most weight. there is a batman 222 (beatles issue) that is in 9.6 an has cream to off white pages. there was also a woverine limited series number 1, frank miller cover, graded at a perfect 10 with off white to white pages.

[Sqeggs]

I generally knock off a half a point for COW for all books which are structurally 9.0 and under. CGC is often harsher than this. Tan or brittle pages even more so.

 

Really? I was not aware that C/OW had any impact on CGC Grade other than at the highest levels... especially hard to believe it does on early Silver Age and older.

 

 

Although I do agree that any tan designation does impact the numerical grade in most cases.

 

The whole PQ thing is kind of curious. Here's my take on it, although I'm sure there are many others on these boards who have followed the issue more closely. PQ has increased in importance over time. If it was as important when CGC started as it is now, I think they would have taken it into account to greater extent when setting the numerical grades. As it is, we are now in a situation where PQ can have a major impact on the price of a book. Which raises the question, if the market is telling us that PQ matters a lot to buyers, then shouldn't it be more fully -- perhaps completely -- reflected in the numerical score? Ideally, all 9.2s, say, of a particular book should receive about the same reception in the marketplace. When one 9.2 is clearly much more desirable to collectors than another 9.2, shouldn't either the more desirable 9.2 be graded higher than 9.2 or the less desirable book be graded less than 9.2?

 

The obvious problem with changing things now is that it would require a change of grading standards that would really screw things up. But I think if we could begin the world anew, PQ would play a bigger role in grading.

[divad]

I generally knock off a half a point for COW for all books which are structurally 9.0 and under. CGC is often harsher than this. Tan or brittle pages even more so.

 

Really? I was not aware that C/OW had any impact on CGC Grade other than at the highest levels... especially hard to believe it does on early Silver Age and older.

 

 

Although I do agree that any tan designation does impact the numerical grade in most cases.

 

[divad]

I generally knock off a half a point for COW for all books which are structurally 9.0 and under. CGC is often harsher than this. Tan or brittle pages even more so.

 

Really? I was not aware that C/OW had any impact on CGC Grade other than at the highest levels... especially hard to believe it does on early Silver Age and older.

 

 

Although I do agree that any tan designation does impact the numerical grade in most cases.

 

The whole PQ thing is kind of curious. Here's my take on it, although I'm sure there are many others on these boards who have followed the issue more closely. PQ has increased in importance over time. If it was as important when CGC started as it is now, I think they would have taken it into account to greater extent when setting the numerical grades. As it is, we are now in a situation where PQ can have a major impact on the price of a book. Which raises the question, if the market is telling us that PQ matters a lot to buyers, then shouldn't it be more fully -- perhaps completely -- reflected in the numerical score? Ideally, all 9.2s, say, of a particular book should receive about the same reception in the marketplace. When one 9.2 is clearly much more desirable to collectors than another 9.2, shouldn't either the more desirable 9.2 be graded higher than 9.2 or the less desirable book be graded less than 9.2?

 

The obvious problem with changing things now is that it would require a change of grading standards that would really screw things up. But I think if we could begin the world anew, PQ would play a bigger role in grading.

 

Well stated (thumbs u

[Bomber-Bob]

I agree that PQ has increased in importance.Nothing says fresh like White Pages.

If the CGC Census and GPA started including PQ in their stats, collectors would start to realize how scarce White Pagers are for pre-1965 books. I have a gut feeling, no proof, that CGC is making PQ more relevant in the grade assigned.

 

[FFB]

I'll bet it was the heavy tanning on the cover that knocked the grade of that book down, not the interior page quality. CR-OW is not uncommon to see on CGC 9.6 SA and BA books. Tanning on the cover is what knocks the grade down to the VF range. I remember during one of Nik's grading contests there was a book that looked to be 9.6 structurally and the real grade was something like 7.5/8.0 because of tanning on the cover.

 

I generally knock off a half a point for COW for all books which are structurally 9.0 and under. CGC is often harsher than this. Tan or brittle pages even more so.

 

Really? I was not aware that C/OW had any impact on CGC Grade other than at the highest levels... especially hard to believe it does on early Silver Age and older.

 

 

Although I do agree that any tan designation does impact the numerical grade in most cases.

 

[divad]

A good point, but in this instance not heavy, but what you see - I'd say moderate at worst. Plus there is no inside cover tanning. That being said, cream to off-white is almost universally associated with some cover tanning. This book was hit at least a full point, if not 1.5. Of course, it was evident, and admittedly, a risk I took. The hit was lessened by the two BA 9.4's that came back in the same box.

 

I'll bet it was the heavy tanning on the cover that knocked the grade of that book down, not the interior page quality. CR-OW is not uncommon to see on CGC 9.6 SA and BA books. Tanning on the cover is what knocks the grade down to the VF range. I remember during one of Nik's grading contests there was a book that looked to be 9.6 structurally and the real grade was something like 7.5/8.0 because of tanning on the cover.

[VintageComics]

I don't think the c/ow paper color is related to the cover stock at all.

 

I believe that when CGC mentions page quality they are simply taking into account interior pages.

 

R.