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How in the world did this go unnoticed???

Started by Guardian Comics,

1,945 posts in this topic

hikeeba-migration

hikeeba-migration

Posted
Posted
ECX7Collection Alex DeLarge GoonChild Jasmine Luke Thomas Hughes Paul Robert Freddie, why don't you take your multiple personalities and shed-load of lies and peddle it all somewhere else?

 

Is this the same guy that trimmed an EC with a pair of scissors, then got a Blue label on it when CGC screwed up? And then he wouldn't return it to CGC when Steve asked him to?

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Mr. Zipper

Mr. Zipper

Posted
Posted
ECX7Collection Alex DeLarge GoonChild Jasmine Luke Thomas Hughes Paul Robert Freddie, why don't you take your multiple personalities and shed-load of lies and peddle it all somewhere else?

 

Is this the same guy that trimmed an EC with a pair of scissors, then got a Blue label on it when CGC screwed up? And then he wouldn't return it to CGC when Steve asked him to?

 

Yes.

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kc120us

kc120us

Posted
Posted
Alright. (thumbs u Delicately, very delicately, :grin: ...I'm going to ask if both you guys could comment on those other points on the list?

 

Agree or disagree, I'm just curious what you both think, if those efforts, along with the one you both agreed on, were actually in play. Again, they were:

 

  • Ask. Put a yes/no field on the submission form for first-hand knowledge of any alterations prior to submission, plus a space to list them. Alterations listed go on the label and grading notes. Yes, I agree with that
     
  • Require any books being submitted by a known professional restoration company to have accompanying detailed worksheets for each book. Whatever treatment is on the worksheet goes on the label and grading notes.
    Again, I agree.
     
  • Call submitters that checked "no" for alterations if an alteration is suspected during examination. Ask again to verify and discuss possibilities for the suspected alteration being present. No, we must assume the submitter is acting truthfully when he checked the "no". He either does not know, or, is lying. Either way his response would be either no or at best I don't know. So then CGC is back to guessing and the phone call is a waste of time.
     
  • Communicate the prevalence of altering books for "The Crack Out Game" and disparage the practice. Communicate the intent to discern alterations through both fact-gathering and skilled detection, even if it's not 100% foolproof.

huh?

Whadaya think? :wishluck:

 

see my response in bold. Also, since CGC does not consider pressing to be restoration, it is a non issue and thus the reason they feel no need to ask.

Thank you for your reply on this. (thumbs u It's just good to see some common ground, even if CGC never ever makes an effort against the phenomenon.

 

The one you marked "huh?" is poorly written, my fault. That one is mainly saying CGC could also take a verbal stance, in conjunction with those efforts you agreed with. A "company position" stated on the their website, press releases and interviews.

 

Dav, I don't think CGC makes any effort because they don't feel any real pressure to do so. Aside from some grumblings here, what other forces are acting upon them to change their position. There is still no hobbywide consensus on pressing as there is on trimming.

 

 

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
This is absurd.

 

Not only does it require a gigantic leap of "faith", but it is disproven by the before and after scans of the book in my possession.

Sorry, I didn't catch your edit.

 

You chose to believe that CGC arbitrarily went from a blue label to a trimmed PLOD label. I believe something happened between the time you gave it to Matt and it was given to the graders at CGC.

 

I'm not sure which one of us is taking the bigger leap.

 

It's a huge leap. It'd be like one of us rolling out that Joey trimmed a book before it went to CGC. I know Joey wouldn't trim it and I know Matt wouldn't either.

 

I say Kenny did it.

 

He is the type of character that would do so for the pure fun of it! :devil:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:jokealert:

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
Indeed, just a few years ago the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide/Gemstone defined pressing as restoration. Now, basically for "political" reasons, it waffles on the definition.

Anyone interested in reading about that discussion can do so here:

 

The Restoration of the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide's Definition of Restoration

 

Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that for a few years "the Overstreet Comic Book Price Guide/Gemstone defined pressing as restoration"? Because, as far as I know, only the 2003-2005 OSPG's included "pressing out wrinkles" as part of their definition of restoration? :shrug:

 

I'm not sure of the true relevance of including the distinction "for a few years" because the fact is the OSPG definition was that pressing is restoration and then it suddenly changed as the "public" controversy arose. You are correct that for many years it did not say as such. Not that it said to the contrary, it just did not address the issue at all. The definitional section of the book changed significantly over the years and started to take on a much more detailed look in the last decade.

 

I am glad you raised this point though. I would say it is actually more significant that the views of whomever made the decision at Gemstone to modify the restoration definition to specifically include pressing finally did so in 2003 (or whenever it was, I trust that you have the date right, I don't recall off the top of my head).

 

Here we have the OSPG in existence since 1970, the creation of CGC in 1999, and the beginning prevalence of the current form of pressing (the fact is that while it was being done to some extent pre-CGC, even if just by placement of a heavy dictionary on a book to do away with a spine roll, it was really CGC's existence that created the "desire" to maximize a 9.2 into a 9.6 through the application of heat, pressure and whatever else is utilized) taking shape and suddenly the OSPG definition for restoration includes pressing. I was always told that policy modifications - and I would say this was not a modification but simply a clarification - within OSPG are methodically undertaken and only with the approval, if not at the behest, of Bob Overstreet himself.

 

That says to me that the powers that be in the community, at the time at least, were of the opinion that pressing is restoration.

 

But then controversy over the practice began to take roots here on the boards in 2004-2005 and, as many people know, got really heated (no pun intended) at times. Many of the senior OSPG personnel, and several advisors (i.e., dealers and including some CGC staff), were participants at that time on the boards and were well aware of the controversy. And then almost as suddenly as the definition had been clarified to include pressing it was taken out.

 

Coincidence? hm

 

Don't think so. :gossip:

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
This is absurd.

 

Not only does it require a gigantic leap of "faith", but it is disproven by the before and after scans of the book in my possession.

Sorry, I didn't catch your edit.

 

You chose to believe that CGC arbitrarily went from a blue label to a trimmed PLOD label. I believe something happened between the time you gave it to Matt and it was given to the graders at CGC.

 

I'm not sure which one of us is taking the bigger leap.

 

It's a huge leap. It'd be like one of us rolling out that Joey trimmed a book before it went to CGC. I know Joey wouldn't trim it and I know Matt wouldn't either.

 

I say Kenny did it.

 

He is the type of character that would do so for the pure fun of it! :devil:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:jokealert:

 

 

Mark, I don't have the stomach to do that sort of thing.

 

But..my daughter does!!!

 

It was Ellen, she trimmed the book. :o

 

 

 

 

 

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
This is absurd.

 

Not only does it require a gigantic leap of "faith", but it is disproven by the before and after scans of the book in my possession.

Sorry, I didn't catch your edit.

 

You chose to believe that CGC arbitrarily went from a blue label to a trimmed PLOD label. I believe something happened between the time you gave it to Matt and it was given to the graders at CGC.

 

I'm not sure which one of us is taking the bigger leap.

 

It's a huge leap. It'd be like one of us rolling out that Joey trimmed a book before it went to CGC. I know Joey wouldn't trim it and I know Matt wouldn't either.

 

I say Kenny did it.

 

He is the type of character that would do so for the pure fun of it! :devil:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:jokealert:

 

 

Mark, I don't have the stomach to do that sort of thing.

 

But..my daughter does!!!

 

It was Ellen, she trimmed the book. :o

 

 

 

 

 

OMG, do you know what this means? :o

 

Dr. Watson was - choke - right! :o

 

meh

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
ECX7Collection Alex DeLarge GoonChild Jasmine Luke Thomas Hughes Paul Robert Freddie, why don't you take your multiple personalities and shed-load of lies and peddle it all somewhere else?

 

Is this the same guy that trimmed an EC with a pair of scissors, then got a Blue label on it when CGC screwed up? And then he wouldn't return it to CGC when Steve asked him to?

 

Yes.

 

Yup. (thumbs u

 

Nasty piece of work and a banned member.

 

Now he's back as Freddie to sew some more trouble. doh!

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slym2none

slym2none

Posted
Posted
ECX7Collection Alex DeLarge GoonChild Jasmine Luke Thomas Hughes Paul Robert Freddie, why don't you take your multiple personalities and shed-load of lies and peddle it all somewhere else?

 

Is this the same guy that trimmed an EC with a pair of scissors, then got a Blue label on it when CGC screwed up? And then he wouldn't return it to CGC when Steve asked him to?

 

AYFKM? People like that need to be shot - not killed, just a good .38 round right in their kneecap.

 

 

 

-slym

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
You forgot about the "rogue CGC employee" theory. Those little trimming devils...

 

Was this an actual "plausible" theory that someone put forward?

 

 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
This is absurd.

 

Not only does it require a gigantic leap of "faith", but it is disproven by the before and after scans of the book in my possession.

Sorry, I didn't catch your edit.

 

You chose to believe that CGC arbitrarily went from a blue label to a trimmed PLOD label. I believe something happened between the time you gave it to Matt and it was given to the graders at CGC.

 

I'm not sure which one of us is taking the bigger leap.

 

I think the more realistic option is that they called it wrong. (shrug)

 

The other option is that somebody covertly trimmed the book between Bob handing it over to Matt and Matt handing it to CGC. Whilst it's not impossible, it's pretty implausable.

 

Actually, it's pretty ludicrous.

 

Thank you.

 

(thumbs u

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted
You forgot about the "rogue CGC employee" theory. Those little trimming devils...

 

Was this an actual "plausible" theory that someone put forward?

 

 

About the only "theory" that wasn't proposed was that little green men snuck into my room and snipped the right edge with their laser scissors. I mean, the book did spend 4 years in California...

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
You forgot about the "rogue CGC employee" theory. Those little trimming devils...

 

Was this an actual "plausible" theory that someone put forward?

 

 

About the only "theory" that wasn't proposed was that little green men snuck into my room and snipped the right edge with their laser scissors.

 

doh!

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kc120us

kc120us

Posted
Posted
I posted this many years ago:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315487#Post315487

 

I still think it is a viable thing, although in those early days the thread kind of degenerated (unlike today - yeah right! )

 

I also posted a similar idea that was quickly shot down by Steve Borock. He explained that collectors do not want their books marked.

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Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted
I posted this many years ago:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315487#Post315487

 

I still think it is a viable thing, although in those early days the thread kind of degenerated (unlike today - yeah right! )

 

I also posted a similar idea that was quickly shot down by Steve Borock. He explained that collectors do not want their books marked.

So, just to keep up,... collectors would hate a tiny restorer's mark visible under UV light, but then those same collectors "don't care" about every non-additive trick in the book? hm

 

Knowing collector's "do not want their books marked " didn't seem to slow their roll with that $ig $eries concept. meh

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