When did this cover reach 30k ?

[tylerdurden-migration]

http://cgi.ebay.com/SPIDER-MAN-155-COVER-JOHN-ROMITA-SR-GREAT-ACTION_W0QQitemZ330398052876QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4ced42320c

[comix4fun]

http://cgi.ebay.com/SPIDER-MAN-155-COVER-JOHN-ROMITA-SR-GREAT-ACTION_W0QQitemZ330398052876QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4ced42320c

 

 

At the same time someone hits the BIN on it....give or take 10 seconds.

[dem1138]

Never. That poor cover has become the "red headed stepchild" of the Romita ASM covers. It's a nice cover but for whatever reason, it seems like the last several owners tired of it quickly and have sold it within about 18 months of owning it. The current owner just bought it in a recent Heritage auction.

 

It was previously owned by a board member, who as I recall sold it to another collector, who then turned around and sold it on Heritage where is was bought by another board member. This other board member then sold it on Heritage for quite a loss (especially when Heritage fees were taken out).

 

The line on that cover for as long as I've known of it is that "someone needs to bury that cover for a few years and just appreciate owning it." Unfortunately, no one who buys that cover seems to heed that advice.

 

[malvin]

and when was this cover a 15K cover?

Romita Byrne Webspinners Cover

 

Malvin

 

[tylerdurden-migration]

and when was this cover a 15K cover?

Romita Byrne Webspinners Cover

 

Malvin

 

Geez thats just ridiculous

 

I like Romita as well as the next guy but thats just plain silly

[CollectingFool]

On the ASM 155 cover, it sold in:

 

Summer, 2003 - $12,000

January, 2007 - $15,535 (Heritage w/ buyer's premium)

November, 2009 - $14,340 (Heritage w/ buyer's premium)

 

I was the one that sold it in 2003. When I was collecting Marvel 70's covers I was happy to have this as my ASM example. If I remember correctly when I got it, it was fresh to the market having been in a Canadian collector's collection and he had it for many years. I believe that was the same story with my FF cover. I sold it when I decided to get out of the dog-eat-dog world of 70's Marvel covers which had/has/is in my opinion used mainly as a profit making mill recycling the same pieces to the same people manipulating and fabricating price increases. This was a boom market and could be supported as long as new collectors keep entering the market looking to fill specific examples (70's Romita ASM, Kirby Cap, Kirby Thor, Trimpe Hullk, etc). IMO two main things have hurt prices on this cover:

 

The people entering the market willing to spend decent money are trending a few years younger and their nostalgia point is early/mid 80's driving those prices insane.

 

Once a cover goes through a certain number of "the same old guys" and they've profited from it, unless it's a highly coveted piece, it loses interest and falls out of what I used to call the "Comic Art Price Accelerator". In theory it resembles a particle accelerator. A piece enters the accelerator and goes round and round the same group of people being propelled up in price through inflated trade. Once it hits maximum velocity it exits the circle and impacts a collector that's new in the hobby or venturing into this part of it. Upon impact a lot of it's kinetic energy is disbursed and it loses momentum. It usually takes the collector impacted a long time to be able to move the cover without taking a loss. I've seen it happen too many times to count. In some cases many times to the same collector.

 

The current price is a result of the "buy it, double it and wait" philosophy that is becoming more prevalent among certain people. There have always been people who did this but when prices were lower and the market was adjusting up faster it wasn't as noticeable. First time I heard about this practice was when someone mentioned a collector nicknamed "The Doubler". I knew the guy but didn't know that was his nickname. Everything about his prices made sense to me after that.

 

As long as I'm mentioning common trends and tactics another one that irks me and is becoming more widespread is the use of eBay for advertising with insanely priced OA pieces. No rational person could expect the pieces to sell "Buy it Now" at those ridiculous prices but I guess there's always that .0001% chance you'll catch someone with a big wallet and little OA market knowledge. This used to be the domain of one dealer but now it's spreading to at least 4 I've noticed. Makes eBay near impossible to navigate. I think the effectiveness of this technique was perfected first on CAF and now has spilled out onto eBay. I would LOVE to see CAF and eBay put a "block seller" option up in their searches but they know where their bread is buttered.

 

 

 

[jjonahjameson1]

and when was this cover a 15K cover?

Romita Byrne Webspinners Cover

 

Malvin

 

Geez thats just ridiculous

 

I like Romita as well as the next guy but thats just plain silly

 

Yeah, but the auction is not just for the Romita Spidey cover...

"If you use the Buy It Now feature, I will also include a Fantastic Four #288 page 8 by John Byrne and Joe Sinnott, featuring She-Hulk, Doctor Doom, Reed Richards, the Human Torch, and the Wasp"

 

And the freebie Byrne FF page should surely justify the $15K asking price

[jjonahjameson1]

and when was this cover a 15K cover?

Romita Byrne Webspinners Cover

 

Malvin

 

Geez thats just ridiculous

 

I like Romita as well as the next guy but thats just plain silly

 

Yeah, but the auction is not just for the Romita Spidey cover...

"If you use the Buy It Now feature, I will also include a Fantastic Four #288 page 8 by John Byrne and Joe Sinnott, featuring She-Hulk, Doctor Doom, Reed Richards, the Human Torch, and the Wasp"

 

And the freebie Byrne FF page should surely justify the $15K asking price

 

Wait a sec...the buy-it-now price is $20K so you get a late-run Byrne FF page for $5K. Wotta deal!

[CollectingFool]

And the freebie Byrne FF page should surely justify the $15K asking price

 

Actually you only get the Byrne FF page with the BIN and that price is $20K. So the Byrne FF page is really $5K. The only real "freebies" you get are two prints and for that you have to pay the full $20K BIN price AND pick the pieces up in person with a cashier's check. Bargain of the century.

 

Oops, I guess you were posting your response as I was writing mine!

[Spider-Variant]

On the ASM 155 cover, it sold in:

 

Summer, 2003 - $12,000

January, 2007 - $15,535 (Heritage w/ buyer's premium)

November, 2009 - $14,340 (Heritage w/ buyer's premium)

 

I was the one that sold it in 2003. When I was collecting Marvel 70's covers I was happy to have this as my ASM example. If I remember correctly when I got it, it was fresh to the market having been in a Canadian collector's collection and he had it for many years. I believe that was the same story with my FF cover. I sold it when I decided to get out of the dog-eat-dog world of 70's Marvel covers which had/has/is in my opinion used mainly as a profit making mill recycling the same pieces to the same people manipulating and fabricating price increases. This was a boom market and could be supported as long as new collectors keep entering the market looking to fill specific examples (70's Romita ASM, Kirby Cap, Kirby Thor, Trimpe Hullk, etc). IMO two main things have hurt prices on this cover:

 

The people entering the market willing to spend decent money are trending a few years younger and their nostalgia point is early/mid 80's driving those prices insane.

 

Once a cover goes through a certain number of "the same old guys" and they've profited from it, unless it's a highly coveted piece, it loses interest and falls out of what I used to call the "Comic Art Price Accelerator". In theory it resembles a particle accelerator. A piece enters the accelerator and goes round and round the same group of people being propelled up in price through inflated trade. Once it hits maximum velocity it exits the circle and impacts a collector that's new in the hobby or venturing into this part of it. Upon impact a lot of it's kinetic energy is disbursed and it loses momentum. It usually takes the collector impacted a long time to be able to move the cover without taking a loss. I've seen it happen too many times to count. In some cases many times to the same collector.

 

The current price is a result of the "buy it, double it and wait" philosophy that is becoming more prevalent among certain people. There have always been people who did this but when prices were lower and the market was adjusting up faster it wasn't as noticeable. First time I heard about this practice was when someone mentioned a collector nicknamed "The Doubler". I knew the guy but didn't know that was his nickname. Everything about his prices made sense to me after that.

 

As long as I'm mentioning common trends and tactics another one that irks me and is becoming more widespread is the use of eBay for advertising with insanely priced OA pieces. No rational person could expect the pieces to sell "Buy it Now" at those ridiculous prices but I guess there's always that .0001% chance you'll catch someone with a big wallet and little OA market knowledge. This used to be the domain of one dealer but now it's spreading to at least 4 I've noticed. Makes eBay near impossible to navigate. I think the effectiveness of this technique was perfected first on CAF and now has spilled out onto eBay. I would LOVE to see CAF and eBay put a "block seller" option up in their searches but they know where their bread is buttered.

 

 

 

Wow, very impressive summation to the the OP's question. I also enjoyed your additional paragraphs about the "Doubler" and the insane eBay prices.

 

My other pet peeve is the "Make an Offer". Fine if you have a grail peice that you don't really want to get rid of but would entertain "Krazy" money. But putting that on every auction you have just makes you look like a gold-digger, IMHO.

[batman_fan]

I was a little shocked when I saw it listed so soon on Ebay after the Auction. One thing that amazes me is people that buy something like that and then decide to turn it so quick at a lost (maybe they are hoping it won't be a lost) do not try to move it here. I have seen it time and again. If the second to the last person that owned it had offered it here for their cost, they may have broke even rather than selling it through Heritage at a lost. I was negotiating with someone for an expensive cover and had made what I considered a reasonable offer, but they told be they had another offer higher but if I matched it, cover was mine. I passed and they ended up listing it on Heritage and got less than my offer when you factor in buyers fees.

 

30k for this cover is just ridiculus. I considered bidding on it when it was listed on Heritage, but felt the price was too high on Heritage. I guess at 30k it is way too high. Does anyone know the seller?

[bocaratondefense]

On the ASM 155 cover, it sold in:

 

Summer, 2003 - $12,000

January, 2007 - $15,535 (Heritage w/ buyer's premium)

November, 2009 - $14,340 (Heritage w/ buyer's premium)

 

I was the one that sold it in 2003. When I was collecting Marvel 70's covers I was happy to have this as my ASM example. If I remember correctly when I got it, it was fresh to the market having been in a Canadian collector's collection and he had it for many years. I believe that was the same story with my FF cover. I sold it when I decided to get out of the dog-eat-dog world of 70's Marvel covers which had/has/is in my opinion used mainly as a profit making mill recycling the same pieces to the same people manipulating and fabricating price increases. This was a boom market and could be supported as long as new collectors keep entering the market looking to fill specific examples (70's Romita ASM, Kirby Cap, Kirby Thor, Trimpe Hullk, etc). IMO two main things have hurt prices on this cover:

 

The people entering the market willing to spend decent money are trending a few years younger and their nostalgia point is early/mid 80's driving those prices insane.

 

Once a cover goes through a certain number of "the same old guys" and they've profited from it, unless it's a highly coveted piece, it loses interest and falls out of what I used to call the "Comic Art Price Accelerator". In theory it resembles a particle accelerator. A piece enters the accelerator and goes round and round the same group of people being propelled up in price through inflated trade. Once it hits maximum velocity it exits the circle and impacts a collector that's new in the hobby or venturing into this part of it. Upon impact a lot of it's kinetic energy is disbursed and it loses momentum. It usually takes the collector impacted a long time to be able to move the cover without taking a loss. I've seen it happen too many times to count. In some cases many times to the same collector.

 

The current price is a result of the "buy it, double it and wait" philosophy that is becoming more prevalent among certain people. There have always been people who did this but when prices were lower and the market was adjusting up faster it wasn't as noticeable. First time I heard about this practice was when someone mentioned a collector nicknamed "The Doubler". I knew the guy but didn't know that was his nickname. Everything about his prices made sense to me after that.

 

As long as I'm mentioning common trends and tactics another one that irks me and is becoming more widespread is the use of eBay for advertising with insanely priced OA pieces. No rational person could expect the pieces to sell "Buy it Now" at those ridiculous prices but I guess there's always that .0001% chance you'll catch someone with a big wallet and little OA market knowledge. This used to be the domain of one dealer but now it's spreading to at least 4 I've noticed. Makes eBay near impossible to navigate. I think the effectiveness of this technique was perfected first on CAF and now has spilled out onto eBay. I would LOVE to see CAF and eBay put a "block seller" option up in their searches but they know where their bread is buttered.

 

 

 

 

Great post. I agree with your take on the hobby, although I am convinced that the dog-eat-dog world of dealers manipulating and fabricating price increases extends beyond 1970s covers.

 

Also you may have missed a few transactions on #155. I owned it for about one year before selling in 2007. Despite changing hands frequently, it is still a nice cover, and I would buy it back at the Heritage price, although not at the new ebay price.

 

 

[CollectingFool]

I agree with your take on the hobby, although I am convinced that the dog-eat-dog world of dealers manipulating and fabricating price increases extends beyond 1970s covers.

 

Also you may have missed a few transactions on #155. I owned it for about one year before selling in 2007. Despite changing hands frequently, it is still a nice cover, and I would buy it back at the Heritage price, although not at the new ebay price.

 

On the #155 cover transactions... I only included ones where I knew for a fact what the sale price was. I also wanted to show that the price really had nowhere near the growth from 2003 - 2007 other similar covers had.

 

Also, on the 70's covers, I know there's price manipulation on a whole range of stuff. It was just so unique and pervasive in the 70's cover market people were buying EVERYTHING 70's and having a go at it. It was almost an easy way to double your money within a few months if you managed to find a piece from someone that wasn't "in the know". Didn't matter what it was from the greatest ASM or FF cover to the crappiest Western cover, prices were climbing at an accelerated rate.

 

I was having a conversation with someone recently and we were discussing different artists and not understanding how some well respected artists who's artwork is hard to find don't go up in value as much as others. I hadn't realized one important thing about this market that applies to most other markets. You can't really build up a market or manipulate prices without a decent inventory. You need the track record of sales (or perceived sales) to comfort people into believing they aren't overspending. (Warhol?) There were tons of 70's covers available and they were in the nostalgia sweet spot so they were easier to deal. I think that's why we see Kirby pages go up 3 to 10 times in price in only the last 7 years. Seven years ago I was offered an entire FF Kirby BOOK for what one average earlier twice-up page goes for now. IMO that is not just supply vs demand. Same goes for Romita art. It's cooled off now but for a while you couldn't touch the stuff. So what if there were literally PILES of it lying around.

 

Obviously this doesn't apply to EVERY artist who's art has gone up in value or EVERY artist who's artwork is hard to find. I just noticed it happening too often for it to be a coincidence. I've also seen how the phenomenon moves on to a new artist or type of art when the old one has been maxed out.

 

 

[comicartcom]

I agree with your take on the hobby, although I am convinced that the dog-eat-dog world of dealers manipulating and fabricating price increases extends beyond 1970s covers.

 

Also you may have missed a few transactions on #155. I owned it for about one year before selling in 2007. Despite changing hands frequently, it is still a nice cover, and I would buy it back at the Heritage price, although not at the new ebay price.

 

On the #155 cover transactions... I only included ones where I knew for a fact what the sale price was. I also wanted to show that the price really had nowhere near the growth from 2003 - 2007 other similar covers had.

 

Also, on the 70's covers, I know there's price manipulation on a whole range of stuff. It was just so unique and pervasive in the 70's cover market people were buying EVERYTHING 70's and having a go at it. It was almost an easy way to double your money within a few months if you managed to find a piece from someone that wasn't "in the know". Didn't matter what it was from the greatest ASM or FF cover to the crappiest Western cover, prices were climbing at an accelerated rate.

 

I was having a conversation with someone recently and we were discussing different artists and not understanding how some well respected artists who's artwork is hard to find don't go up in value as much as others. I hadn't realized one important thing about this market that applies to most other markets. You can't really build up a market or manipulate prices without a decent inventory. You need the track record of sales (or perceived sales) to comfort people into believing they aren't overspending. (Warhol?) There were tons of 70's covers available and they were in the nostalgia sweet spot so they were easier to deal. I think that's why we see Kirby pages go up 3 to 10 times in price in only the last 7 years. Seven years ago I was offered an entire FF Kirby BOOK for what one average earlier twice-up page goes for now. IMO that is not just supply vs demand. Same goes for Romita art. It's cooled off now but for a while you couldn't touch the stuff. So what if there were literally PILES of it lying around.

 

Obviously this doesn't apply to EVERY artist who's art has gone up in value or EVERY artist who's artwork is hard to find. I just noticed it happening too often for it to be a coincidence. I've also seen how the phenomenon moves on to a new artist or type of art when the old one has been maxed out.

 

 

as someone who has been invloved a s adealer since 1966 I can say that this is nothing new. In the 1970s the market always was like this in some area.

First Marvels were hot, then DCs were hot, then ECs were hot, then golden age DC, then Timely etc until it got back to the Marvels again and continued the cycle over & over. Most of you are either too young to have been involved or weren't even born yet, so it looks like a new phenomenon to you.. It isn't

 

 

[comicartcom]

by the way.. dealer hate is misplaced. Many people hate dealers because they think dealers manipulate the market. yes there may be some manipulating, but 99% of them are not.

 

Others hate dealers because we get to buy more stuff than collectors do and we get to buy those items first most of the time. If this is why you hate dealers, again, your anger is misplaced.

 

without dealers, you have no market source as we are the people who spend money in advertising and gasoline finding this material while you are working your jobs..

 

there are dealers who deserve your hate... the Dan Dupcaks of the world.. But the rest of them, believe me - you couldn't do without them.

 

 

[bocaratondefense]

On the #155 cover transactions... I only included ones where I knew for a fact what the sale price was. I also wanted to show that the price really had nowhere near the growth from 2003 - 2007 other similar covers had.

 

 

The same can be said for other Romita ASM covers that have sold publicly recently. Prices seem stagnant relative to the rapid increases for other OA. Aren't ASM covers what Krazy Kat characterize as the blue chips of the hobby?

 

ASM #95

$20K Heritage July 2002

$31K CLINK March 2009

 

ASM #155

$15535 Heritage January 2007

$14340 Heritage November 2009

 

ASM #156

$8050 Heritage July 2003

$8600 CLINK March 2009

 

 

 

[CollectingFool]

by the way.. dealer hate is misplaced.

 

Who said anything about hating dealers? This is just the way the market works. Many of the people involved that I think contributed to the insanely escalating prices for no reason are "collectors" that move more art than a lot of dealers or use dealers to move their art for them.

 

The coin market works exactly the same way. Slabbing just made it easier. Same with comics IMO. The reason I like OA and not comics is because of the less mature market. Same with coins. I collect only unslabbed coins and focus on US Continental coins and ancient Roman coins where the slabbing is at a minimum. In other collectible markets it's almost impossible for a collector to wheel and deal.

 

Don't get a complex. No one is advocating torches and pitchforks for the masses to go after dealers. It's just good to have certain things in mind when deciding what to go after or how to negotiate on that next coveted piece.

 

 

[comicartcom]

Ruben.. you take my comment too far.. I don't see any pitchforks, but there is a constant demonization of dealers on all collectibles boards and including in this thread.. To the vast # of dealers, it is a dis-service and you as a former dealer know what I'm talking about.

 

to get back on subject.. I do not in any way agree that the comic art market is not matured, but if you wish to compare it to the comic book hobby - it's apples and oranges.

 

The comic art hobby will never be as big as comic books because:

#1) there isn't enough art to support as many collectors as comic books have

#2) seeing as there is no "entry-level" art* at under $25 to speak of, it doesn't engender that many new collectors to the field every month

 

*if there are $25 comic pages around that the current crop of collectors are interested, there certainly aren't that many

 

when I look at the comic art hobby today & I see the prices I see, I can't imagine the hobby isn't fully mature right now. These prices may look cheap to certain collectors in the field, but to 99% of the "collectorate" more than 99% of the art in the hobby is entirely un-obtainable

 

Rich

[jjonahjameson1]

. These prices may look cheap to certain collectors in the field, but to 99% of the "collectorate" more than 99% of the art in the hobby is entirely un-obtainable

 

Rich

 

Wow, 99%? Really?

[SuperBird]

. These prices may look cheap to certain collectors in the field, but to 99% of the "collectorate" more than 99% of the art in the hobby is entirely un-obtainable

 

Rich

 

Wow, 99%? Really?

 

I agree with this, actually. Anything worth owning is pretty much $100 and up. Anything with any *real* demand is $1k and up. It's a hard hobby to get into at the entry level, with prices what they are