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CGC fair market value rules

Started by Tsimanga,

38 posts in this topic

Tsimanga

Tsimanga

Posted
Posted

 

I've tried posting this a couple times in the 'Ask CGC' forum but they wont seem to want to post it... something to hide maybe?

 

Anyways... here's a question I have..

 

I'm curious as to how the Fair market value thing works. It says when you submit books in person for a walk-thru you are charged 2.5 percent of FMV. Just how is the FMV calculated?

 

For instance if I show up in Sarasota with Our Army At War #1-10 in NM+ condition, how is fair market value decided. Overstreet only goes up to 9.2 and there are no recorded sales of NM+ or better books of that issue numbers and title.

 

Anyone know? Thanks

 

Martin

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted

GPA, if it exists.

 

It actually does for *most* Gold, Silver, and the like, in *some* grade that's relatively close.

 

Remember, it's capped at $1500, so if you're subbing a book that is worth $100,000, it's still only $1500.

 

I do not like charges based on the value of the item. It takes the same amount of work...maybe even a little more...to grade a $100 Star Spangled Comics #47 in VG as it does a $75,000 VF Batman #1, or a $35 Batman #426 in 9.6 vs. a $600 Spiderman #300 in 9.8.

 

When I mentioned this, I was told by a customer service rep that "Well, you're going to make a lot more when you sell it"...which, of course, assumes I'm going to sell it (which is not always the case), and not CGC's business. Does CGC refund the upcharge if I don't sell the book, and it plummets in value? Of course not. (This is actually a common occurrence in late Bronze/Copper/Modern these days.)

 

To their credit, they've overlooked the upcharge many times.

 

But there should be no upcharge based on FMV. It's bad business.

 

And yeah, I know the arguments in favor of FMV upcharges. I don't buy them.

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500Club

500Club

Posted
Posted

I do not like charges based on the value of the item. It takes the same amount of work...maybe even a little more...to grade a $100 Star Spangled Comics #47 in VG as it does a $75,000 VF Batman #1, or a $35 Batman #426 in 9.6 vs. a $600 Spiderman #300 in 9.8.

 

When I mentioned this, I was told by a customer service rep that "Well, you're going to make a lot more when you sell it"...which, of course, assumes I'm going to sell it (which is not always the case), and not CGC's business.

 

I don't like them, either.

 

My issue is it ties the grade given to the amount charged. This is conflict of interest.

 

That having been said, I have never seen an example where this has been a problem, so I am not questioning CGCs ethics. It's more the issue of allowing any question of impropriety.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
You guys are RE-Tards.. GPA does exists. www.gpanalysis.com

 

lol

 

lol lol lol

 

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

 

As a card carrying subscriber to GPA, I invite you to READ THE POST AGAIN....only this time, read it in the context of the FIRST post, and see if you can figure out what was actually said.

 

Focus on the word "it", and see if it refers to GPA itself....or rather price data for a specific book in a specific grade ON GPA.

 

lol

 

You crack me up, LB. ;)

 

The "does exists" is really what put it over the top for me. I wish Sean was back from Vegas to see this one.

 

:insane:

 

 

 

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted

For instance if I show up in Sarasota with Our Army At War #1-10 in NM+ condition, how is fair market value decided.

If you have those don't bother going to Sarasota. Just give me a call and I will help you establish FMV on them by way of an offer.

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Topnotchman

Topnotchman

Posted
Posted

I had a friend who got an early Silver Age Marvel book come back as a 9.8, there was no recorded sale ever in 9.8. The overstreet was 1800.00 in 9.2. They said it was worth 20,000.00, so they charged him what would of been 2.5 per cent of that, or $500 to grade it. The book sold for 90,000.00. So I would say paying the $500.00 grading fee was a wise decision. Wish I had the luck of falling into a collection with a book of that caliber.

 

If you have Hulk 181 come back 9.8, they will charge the lowest sale which is 15,000.00 so 2.5 of that 375.00.

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comicwiz

comicwiz

Posted
Posted
GPA calculates all e-bay market sales, and ComicLink sales.

 

Actually, they don't record sales data from ComicLink.

 

From the GPA Website, here is where they get their sales data from:

 

CGC Online Auction Sites

 

* Heritage Auction Galleries

* Pedigree Grand Auctions

* Hakes

* ComicConnect Auction

* Vintage Collectables

* Mound City Auctions

* eBay

* Legendary Auctions

* All Star Auctions

 

Dealer/Consignment Sites

 

* World Wide Comics

* Heritage Auctions Comic Market

* Metropolis Comics

* Pedigree Comics

* ComicConnect

* Paradise Comics

* Investment Collectibles

* Vintage Collectables

* Esquire Comics

* Mile High Comics

* Archangels

* Lewis Wayne Gallery

 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
I had a friend who got an early Silver Age Marvel book come back as a 9.8, there was no recorded sale ever in 9.8. The overstreet was 1800.00 in 9.2. They said it was worth 20,000.00, so they charged him what would of been 2.5 per cent of that, or $500 to grade it. The book sold for 90,000.00. So I would say paying the $500.00 grading fee was a wise decision. Wish I had the luck of falling into a collection with a book of that caliber.

 

If you have Hulk 181 come back 9.8, they will charge the lowest sale which is 15,000.00 so 2.5 of that 375.00.

 

Whether or not it's a wise decision for the submitter doesn't have anything to with the discussion of whether or not it's legitimate to charge sliding rates based on "value." CGC said it was "worth" $20K (how did they know?)...what if the book only sold for $1,000? What if the submitter had no intention of EVER selling it?

 

On top of that, it makes decisions about what to submit very, very difficult, especially for "cusp" books. If I'm going to be charged $54 just to submit my modern X-Book #327 that happens to be "worth" $350 in 9.8 (which now falls under "standard"), but only $50 in 9.6, which is $17...I can't figure out what my bill will be, and it makes a significant difference between $17 and $54 times 100 books subbed that might fall into this.

 

Yes, CGC has been very, very gracious in not being a stickler about it...but it is IN WRITING, and they easily could do exactly that. Now my potential $1700 bill is $5400, and I have ZERO way of paying it....it's incredibly unnerving using a service and not knowing what the final bill will actually be.

 

This is my one major, major bone with CGC. Love the company, love what it's done for the hobby. It also helps that I grew up as a supporter of NGC, which is owned by the same company as CGC. It has revolutionized collecting comics, no doubt, and is/was staffed by some of the nicest, most professional people I've run across in the hobby (hi Steve!)

 

But I think this is a very real problem.

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Tsimanga

Tsimanga

Posted
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Posted
that's it I'm out :fear:

 

don't let the door hit you in the mister useless...

 

The point of my post was... if CGC can make quite a bit more money by uping the grades on your walk thru books by just a point or two, then maybe they would be swayed to do so. By giving your Spidey #1 a 9.4 instead of a 9.2 they just made themselves an extra grand. Multiply that by multiple high grade submissions and it could turn a days worth of grading your books and making 3 grand into 15 or twenty grand.

 

Big difference....

 

 

 

 

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TheWatcher

TheWatcher

Posted
Posted
I remember an article on the web where ComicLink and GPA were joining forces to establish market sales..

 

CLink wanted to report some of its results, not all of them. George told them it was all or nothing as only giving certain results could skew the data

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