Another Collectible Bites the Dust- Parallels to Comics- Quesada: Pay Attention

[HarrisonJohn]

I think the biggest difference between comics and other collectibles such as baseball cards or figurines is that after looking at the cover image of a comic, there is so much more there to be discovered between those covers. There is great art and stories waiting to be discovered. You have writers, artists, color stylists, graphic design all throwing their hats in the ring. Whereas with many other collectibles, it sort of is a "what you see is what you get" package. I don't mean to downplay these other collectibles' value (in fact I have a cool vintage toy collection). My point is that Comics pack a mean punch and have a lot to offer the enthusiast specifically the ability to tell a story, whether it be simple and fun or a complex one over a long period of time! I can't really say the same thing about sports cards.

 

I agree 100%.

[Scrooge]

I think the biggest difference between comics and other collectibles such as baseball cards or figurines is that after looking at the cover image of a comic, there is so much more there to be discovered between those covers. There is great art and stories waiting to be discovered. You have writers, artists, color stylists, graphic design all throwing their hats in the ring. Whereas with many other collectibles, it sort of is a "what you see is what you get" package. I don't mean to downplay these other collectibles' value (in fact I have a cool vintage toy collection). My point is that Comics pack a mean punch and have a lot to offer the enthusiast specifically the ability to tell a story, whether it be simple and fun or a complex one over a long period of time! I can't really say the same thing about sports cards.

 

I think the biggest difference between pulps and collectibles such as baseball cards and figurines is that after looking at the cover image of a pulp, there is so much more there to be discovered between those covers. There is great art and stories waiting to be discovered. You have writers, artists, literary styles, every genre throwing their hats in the ring. ...

 

Yet, pulps are generally dirt cheap in comparison ... Yes, I know there is a difference, comics are still published while pulps went extinct a long time ago. I do not believe though that it's the main reason for the difference in the respective hobbies' prices. Pulps died due to, in part, the paperback market and television. Comics will die due to the increased attraction of television and online entertainment. It will be a slow process but it will happen. To the same degree, maybe not, but barring some unforeseen event, the slide will continue.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Sports cards in my opinion got killed due to the hype of limited stuff, by the time you knew it everything was collectible/limited and you were payin $9 or more a pack and throwing out the thing cause you didnt get the limited one one. I remeber opening a pack of cards and getting a rookie or 2 that was worth something and making a set of all the cards.

 

I think the same is or is starting to happen with comics. So many variant covers $/$5 a piece. People hardly make full runs or sets of the newer stuff. People buy the graphic novels to read the whole thing instead of individual issues usually.

 

I think the old timers and old comics and other stuff got it right. The book was done and drawn and stood on its on two feet for what it was and the art in it and not just cause it was the 14th variant limited edition pizza hut giveaway.

 

Probably not getting my point across correctly but....

 

Yup. Autographed, jersey patch, swatch 1 of 1 yadda, yaddas.

 

You could spend anywhere from 5-10 bucks a pack to $100-300 a pack and you'll get some pretty cool stuff (none of it worth what you paid for the pack of course). On the hopes you'll get a 1 of 1 Babe Ruth sig from a check he signed decades ago, slapped onto a photoshopped image of him on some glossy, embossed, 1/8" thick piece of syte that's supposed to be called a baseball card.

 

I remember when the first autographed cards hit packs and it was a big deal. Now, you can find most players for a buck or 2 a piece in the rummage bin.

 

[Bunky Brian]

Sports cards in my opinion got killed due to the hype of limited stuff, by the time you knew it everything was collectible/limited and you were payin $9 or more a pack and throwing out the thing cause you didnt get the limited one one. I remeber opening a pack of cards and getting a rookie or 2 that was worth something and making a set of all the cards.

 

I think the same is or is starting to happen with comics. So many variant covers $/$5 a piece. People hardly make full runs or sets of the newer stuff. People buy the graphic novels to read the whole thing instead of individual issues usually.

 

I think the old timers and old comics and other stuff got it right. The book was done and drawn and stood on its on two feet for what it was and the art in it and not just cause it was the 14th variant limited edition pizza hut giveaway.

 

Probably not getting my point across correctly but....

 

(thumbs u

[comicalgems]

Sports cards in my opinion got killed due to the hype of limited stuff, by the time you knew it everything was collectible/limited and you were payin $9 or more a pack and throwing out the thing cause you didnt get the limited one one. I remeber opening a pack of cards and getting a rookie or 2 that was worth something and making a set of all the cards.

 

I think the same is or is starting to happen with comics. So many variant covers $/$5 a piece. People hardly make full runs or sets of the newer stuff. People buy the graphic novels to read the whole thing instead of individual issues usually.

 

I think the old timers and old comics and other stuff got it right. The book was done and drawn and stood on its on two feet for what it was and the art in it and not just cause it was the 14th variant limited edition pizza hut giveaway.

 

Probably not getting my point across correctly but....

 

Yup. Autographed, jersey patch, swatch 1 of 1 yadda, yaddas.

 

You could spend anywhere from 5-10 bucks a pack to $100-300 a pack and you'll get some pretty cool stuff (none of it worth what you paid for the pack of course). On the hopes you'll get a 1 of 1 Babe Ruth sig from a check he signed decades ago, slapped onto a photoshopped image of him on some glossy, embossed, 1/8" thick piece of syte that's supposed to be called a baseball card.

 

I remember when the first autographed cards hit packs and it was a big deal. Now, you can find most players for a buck or 2 a piece in the rummage bin.

 

It sounds like getting your books CGC SS'd to me. How many years from now before the Sig Series becomes a "meh" for the most part unless it's someone who's dead?

[Darth Corgi]

I think the biggest difference between comics and other collectibles such as baseball cards or figurines is that after looking at the cover image of a comic, there is so much more there to be discovered between those covers.

 

But once a comic is encapsulated, that "so much more there" is no longer accessible. So in essence, a 3D object with a storyline and 32/64/128 pages of colored artwork becomes a 2D slab.

 

Slabbing only happens to a handful of books in the big picture, and even though a book is in a slab, it still has all that neat stuff in there. It doesn't go away once in is encased. Also, it's not like slabbing can't be reversed. I crack out and read about half the books I buy slabbed.

 

Personally, I save slabs for my highgrade rarer books and use midgrade reading copies or those handy trade reprints to reference.

[joe_collector]

I think the biggest difference between comics and other collectibles....

 

It never ceases to amaze me how comic collectors self-delude themselves into believing the fantasy that "their hobby" is somehow superior to someone else's.

 

Here's a newsflash: There is absolutely no logical reason why a grown adult would pay hundreds of thousands of dollars on a piece of old newsprint, or an old piece of cardboard, or a hunk of common metal, or small piece of paper with glue on the back.

 

Trying to argue that one collectible is inherently 'better' and therefore 'less prone to economic upheaval" is insane.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

It sounds like getting your books CGC SS'd to me. How many years from now before the Sig Series becomes a "meh" for the most part unless it's someone who's dead?

 

 

I think CGC sigs would maybe not face the same problems b/c with cards, you're talking mass production of packs with most of the high end packs containing a minimum of 1 autographed card. Then you're talking about multiple card manufacturers and even within 1 manufacturer, they might put out multiple products.

 

I think Upper Deck once put out 4 different hockey products for 1 season. That's 4 different products that contain autographs of the same players across the product lines. Then they add in limited edition runs of those autographs. I know there was one product that had the same guy, same card, same autograph only the color of the border on the card went from red to blue to gold. The red had maybe 100 copies. The blue 25 and the gold 10 or less or something. That's for just 1 of the products and for just 1 player. Literally the market gets flooded with thousands upon thousands of signed cards. If you check ebay for "auto" cards, you'll get pages upon pages. And that's mostly the stuff people want. Not so much the drek.

 

With comics, there's some hoop jumping to go through to get that sig still. At least I assume there is since I don't seek them out myself.

 

For every SS book, there are probably hundreds of certified autograph cards, maybe even a thousand to 1 ratio or more wouldn't surprise me.

 

SS is probably safe in its current role.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Trying to argue that one collectible is inherently 'better' and therefore 'less prone to economic upheaval" is insane.

 

 

That's an oversimplification and I'm pretty sure something that could be proven otherwise.

 

I'm not going to do it though because I am lazy and I suck.

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

Trying to argue that one collectible is inherently 'better' and therefore 'less prone to economic upheaval" is insane.

 

 

That's an oversimplification and I'm pretty sure something that could be proven otherwise.

 

I actually left out a very important term:

 

Trying to argue that one pop culture collectible is inherently 'better' and therefore 'less prone to economic upheaval" is insane.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Trying to argue that one collectible is inherently 'better' and therefore 'less prone to economic upheaval" is insane.

 

 

That's an oversimplification and I'm pretty sure something that could be proven otherwise.

 

I actually left out a very important term:

 

Trying to argue that one pop culture collectible is inherently 'better' and therefore 'less prone to economic upheaval" is insane.

 

 

as Pootie Tang would say: Sa da tay!

[dupont2005]

The article could parallel the secondary collectible market of moderns, but even if the "collectible" values of comics fell, I would be happy because I could afford more. Not like moderns have any collectible value to begin with for the most part. According to the article, the figures are still being made. Just by a new company and in smaller quantities. Marvel already has a new owner, I feel like after the inevitable second crash they will change things up, trim a LOT of titles from their roster, and continue to publish their flagship titles like ASM, Avengers, Hulk, FF, and UXM. Comics will still exist and GA will still be collectible. Those modern variant covers, Probably not.

[HarrisonJohn]

The article could parallel the secondary collectible market of moderns, but even if the "collectible" values of comics fell, I would be happy because I could afford more. Not like moderns have any collectible value to begin with for the most part. According to the article, the figures are still being made. Just by a new company and in smaller quantities. Marvel already has a new owner, I feel like after the inevitable second crash they will change things up, trim a LOT of titles from their roster, and continue to publish their flagship titles like ASM, Avengers, Hulk, FF, and UXM. Comics will still exist and GA will still be collectible. Those modern variant covers, Probably not.

 

I agree, the Hummel comparison is best made to modern comics. But we all already knew variant covers hold little interest.

[NewWorldOrder]

I think the biggest difference between comics and other collectibles....

 

It never ceases to amaze me how comic collectors self-delude themselves into believing the fantasy that "their hobby" is somehow superior to someone else's.

 

Here's a newsflash: There is absolutely no logical reason why a grown adult would pay hundreds of thousands of dollars on a piece of old newsprint, or an old piece of cardboard, or a hunk of common metal, or small piece of paper with glue on the back.

 

Trying to argue that one collectible is inherently 'better' and therefore 'less prone to economic upheaval" is insane.

 

Joe,

 

This is only my opinion, but the main difference is comic books keep transcending generations unlike collecting stamps, hummels (good god why), and even sport cards.

 

I made a decision when I was a kid that it was either baseball cards or comic books. I woke up one day and realized that all baseball cards were small pictures with out of date stats on the back of them. Man if I grew up today sports cards would be even more worthless in my eyes.

 

Just thinking in terms of just comic books for character stability is not thinking outside the box. I see kids of all ages with Batman, Spider-man, Superman t-shirts on all the time. The characters are being merchandized in all mediums now, mainly with Hollywood having hundreds of primo storylines to make millions.

 

Simple formula is as long as the characters are known everyday vintage comic books will stay vintage.

 

When sports players retire they are forgotten and their value goes down.

 

We never have to worry about spider-man taking steroids or batting over .300.

 

I don’t see the comic book market in terms of vintage comics not being sought after/collective in our life time.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

John

 

[the blob]

whatever is happening to print runs of monthly floppies...the [big] characters themselves have a lot of popularity, even if kids don't read comics like 30 or 40 years ago. i think that will help sustain the underlying substantive material for some time. maybe.

 

whereas the hummels... unless you and your grandmother really enjoyed collecting them, yeah, that's going to drop off. that sort of kitchy sentimentality is dead for Gen Xers. plus, every old lady has a bunch of them sitting around. it was always cheap kitch (though more expensive than some other kitch). Lladro was higher end. I wonder where those have gone? (Though I don't recall those being marketed so much as "limited edition collectibles", but rather, trying to market them as art/sculpture.

[joe_collector]

Simple formula is as long as the characters are known everyday vintage comic books will stay vintage.

 

Then we disagree, as I don't see the correlation between liking the Spider-man movies and spending big bucks on vintage Spider-man comics. The superhero movies brought a lot of "old collectors" back to the fold, but don't confuse that phenomenon with what you're referring to.

[hockey&comicsguy]

When sports players retire they are forgotten and their value goes down.

 

 

 

 

Just to address this point. I think that's debatable.

 

 

Mickey Mantle

Sandy Koufax

Gordie Howe

etc....

 

The value of the cards printed from their playing days certainly have not gone down in value. If you know where I can find a box of 1950's/60's baseball cards, especially Mantles, for cheap, please let me know. I'll even pay you a finder's fee.

 

I would beg to differ that they are forgotten as well.

[Schmakt]

I think the biggest difference between comics and other collectibles such as baseball cards or figurines is that after looking at the cover image of a comic, there is so much more there to be discovered between those covers. There is great art and stories waiting to be discovered. You have writers, artists, color stylists, graphic design all throwing their hats in the ring. Whereas with many other collectibles, it sort of is a "what you see is what you get" package. I don't mean to downplay these other collectibles' value (in fact I have a cool vintage toy collection). My point is that Comics pack a mean punch and have a lot to offer the enthusiast specifically the ability to tell a story, whether it be simple and fun or a complex one over a long period of time! I can't really say the same thing about sports cards.

 

I agree 100%.

 

yep. Comics are entertainment.

Certainly doesn't mean that they will continue to command high dollar values, but it certainly does help the argument that the hobby is much less likely to disappear than something you just hold.

 

Same reason that CGC's remain more valuable than plain sports cards, I think.

 

The manufactured collectibillty of a comic sucks b/c they're not adding anything more to the entertainment value of the book.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

 

Same reason that CGC's remain more valuable than plain sports cards, I think.

 

Not sure I follow.

 

It depends on what you're talking about and what you're comparing. If you're comparing slabbed keys to mass produced 1989 Donruss baseball cards that's one thing.

 

If you're comparing slabbed moderns to a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle, not so much.

[Griz]

I don't post much but I have always found this topic fascinating and wanted to throw in my 2 cents. In my opinion, some of us comic collectors are somewhat guilty of a "whistling past the graveyard" mentality.

 

I by no means think the great crash is coming, or the end of comic collecting is nigh. There are still years of strong interest in the hobby ahead, in my opinion. However, I do think the trends this article highlights are suggestive.

 

I have heard arguments many times about how characters like SpiderMan, Batman and Superman are iconic and will be part of American culture forever. And it will all be OK in the long run because kids are familiar with these characters through movies, etc. However, I think it is assuming a great deal that the familiarity of children with these characters will lead to sustaining the comic hobby across generations.

 

Let me use myself as an example. I am a Gen-Xer. I was familiar with (and even avidly liked some) of the following characters as a child. These characters, in their time, were all very famous, yet I have no interest in collecting any material about them now:

 

Tarzan (used to see the old movies, just an iconic character);

Flash Gordon (I used to watch the old serials on WGN and oved the awful movie with the Queen score; but I knew who Flash was)

Buck Rogers (tv show)

Lone Ranger (watched the old TV show on WGN every Sunday)

Cisco Kid (same as Lone Ranger)

The Shadow (familiar from a few references in old movies, occasionally heard an old radio program, etc)

 

My personal experience makes me skeptical about the belief that the comic hobby is different from others. I still enjoy it. But I do it for myself and I don't think that it will necesssarily mean anything to later generations.