Pedigree Auction Sales and Relistings. Legit?

[batman_fan]

Hi folks,

 

well, I've been slow to post here because I actually wanted to speak with Doug first, which I was able to do about half an hour ago.

 

So, exactly what he has said earlier, a couple of consigners have pressured him into not reporting a few sales - not good, and I'm certainly not happy about that. He and I had a frank conversation about it and Doug has committed to sending the data and talking to the consigners about reporting their future consigned sales. I do see where he was coming from, but also drove the point home with respects to reporting ALL sales data, and, explaining to the consigners (whom he acknowledges may leave his site) that this is the way to go. He agrees.

 

Furthermore, he has also agreed to something we have been looking to introduce into our system for a while now, direct links back to individual sales on his site and marking his sales as such on GPA. Most other reporting partners have also shown interest in the past on this, so as long there are no technical difficulties (which there shouldn't be) this should be something we can introduce relatively quickly.

 

A few of the dealers I met with in San Diego when we first introduced our service showed interest in sending us sales (prior to us accepting non-auction data). I remember at the time (and Steve B was in agreement during that chat) that my reluctance was due mainly to do with verifying the data and the completeness of the results. And here we are.

 

I personally believe Doug is already taking steps to change the way he is reporting to us and bring the consigners who have pressured him on board. I might just add that Doug (as well as Brent) is one of the few smaller dealers who has gone to great lengths to accommodate the data feeds to us.

 

And as someone far more intelligent than myself stated earlier, Joseph (ComicWiz) has explained exactly what would need to happen to verify and guarantee compliance by every player - nothing short of one unified exchange. Yep, not gonna happen.

 

At the end of the day we can continue to provide further and further information (and as much as is possible without hindering the service) to give collector's more data than they would normally have been privy to, or have had the capability and time to collect on their own. I believe enough data points exist in most books/grades to see the trends, even if individual transactions can vary from time to time.

 

So, I'm here and ready to accept any questions you have specifically of me and my service.

 

George

 

Oh great, Doug is going to report all sales data. You know how I know this? Cause he said so and Doug would never lie

 

Good luck George, you definitely provide a useful service, but I don't envy the challenges you face.

 

I think Doug is a sure win for "person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed of the year, 2010"

[hockey&comicsguy]

george,

 

you should start keeping track of forum CGC sales, since those sales data are legit.

 

regards,

 

elrod

 

Unless the buyer is TFL. In which case the actual sale will not be finalized.

[Point Five]

george,

 

you should start keeping track of forum CGC sales, since those sales data are legit.

 

regards,

 

elrod

 

Unless the buyer is TFL. In which case the actual sale will not be finalized.

Oh snap.

[hockey&comicsguy]

george,

 

you should start keeping track of forum CGC sales, since those sales data are legit.

 

regards,

 

elrod

 

I think the problem with board sales, is the fact that some board members might price things way cheap, in hopes of moving product, and at times 20 people would be willing to line up for those prices. I'm guilty of of that at times.

 

Although there are plenty of top dollar prices paid, many sell to to move product.

 

For example, if I have 3 copies of book X in 9.9 condition.....

 

I might sell one at auction, a second sits on my ebay store or a broker exchange, the the 3rd I put at a low price on the boards, knowing that possible brisk sale will not go into GPA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Should that matter tho? A sale is a sale. I wouldn't look differently upon that scenario as I would two deep-pocketed bidders putting a book into the stratosphere and smashing GPA norms. Gotta have all the data you can. Can't make exceptions for circumstance.

[tth2]

Then what is the point of GPA? It cannot be an accurate picture.

 

We've had a 100-page debate about this before. No, it's not entirely accurate...but it's all we've got. Take it or leave it.

I agree with that. It's just a tool. Too bad many people don't seem to realize that, and slavishly adhere to GPA as if it's the end all and be all.

[tth2]

All independent dealer reportings to GPA are based on the honor system. So, it's automatically handicapped before even leaving the gate, but like fantastic_four said, it is all we've got.

And yet, so many here treat it as gospel truth.

[tth2]

Again, I The problem is some of the purchasers who got them at less than current GPA value ask me not to report the sale for obvious reasons and I respect that. If you bought an ASM 14, for example, at $5,000, knowing you got it on the cheap, want that sale to be purposely made public when you are trying to sell it for $9,000?

 

If this is the norm, then Grade Point Average data is not worth the paper its written on, and is about as reliable as using a thimble to hold a cup of coffee.

GPA is what it is, which is an excellent tool. People just make it out to be more than it is.

[comicartfan]

People just make it out to be more than it is.

 

They pretty much do that on these boards with everything....

 

 

[1koko]

Interesting to see how the conversation has diverted into a GPA data integrity issue rather than the initial debate re whether the business practices of a dealer are seen to be sound or not.

[rockman2008]

Ross Perot used to call it "gorilla dust." This refers to the way a great ape will throw dirt and debris into the air during a fight to distract his opponent. It's obvious to me without wading through every increasingly off-topic page, that this dealer uses deceptive practices in his auctions. The whole detour into GPA debate is another instance of deception.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Interesting to see how the conversation has diverted into a GPA data integrity issue rather than the initial debate re whether the business practices of a dealer are seen to be sound or not.

 

Indeed.

 

A few people demanded 'evidence' that Mr Schmell had been up to no good.

 

Mr Schmell admitted that he had.

 

Everybody moved the discussion quickly on to an 'easier target' for fear of derailing the gravy train.

 

Did I miss anything?

[Freddie-migration]

Interesting to see how the conversation has diverted into a GPA data integrity issue rather than the initial debate re whether the business practices of a dealer are seen to be sound or not.

 

Indeed.

 

A few people demanded 'evidence' that Mr Schmell had been up to no good.

 

Mr Schmell admitted that he had.

 

Everybody moved the discussion quickly on to an 'easier target' for fear of derailing the gravy train.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

No. An accurate summary.

The thread is an eye opener. Three things that jump out for me.

1. The auction house in question and perhaps a couple of others seem to have their own rulebook and operate under a veil of secrecy.

2. Consequently GPA data is essentially flawed and is not Gospel as some people seem to believe. (Thru' no fault of the person that operates it)

3. That many people are aware of 1. but choose for whatever reason (best known to themselves) to completely ignore it, and prefer to talk about the weather.

[DrWatson]

Interesting to see how the conversation has diverted into a GPA data integrity issue rather than the initial debate re whether the business practices of a dealer are seen to be sound or not.

 

Indeed.

 

A few people demanded 'evidence' that Mr Schmell had been up to no good.

 

Mr Schmell admitted that he had.

 

Everybody moved the discussion quickly on to an 'easier target' for fear of derailing the gravy train.

 

Did I miss anything?

That's a load of . No one "moved" the conversation in any direction. It was a natural progression.

 

The selective reporting of sales to GPA is what came out of this thread, not some grand auction manipulation master plan as Brent had hoped.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Interesting to see how the conversation has diverted into a GPA data integrity issue rather than the initial debate re whether the business practices of a dealer are seen to be sound or not.

 

Indeed.

 

A few people demanded 'evidence' that Mr Schmell had been up to no good.

 

Mr Schmell admitted that he had.

 

Everybody moved the discussion quickly on to an 'easier target' for fear of derailing the gravy train.

 

Did I miss anything?

That's a load of . No one "moved" the conversation in any direction. It was a natural progression.

 

The selective reporting of sales to GPA is what came out of this thread, not some grand auction manipulation master plan as Brent had hoped.

 

That's a load of . The conversation was directed towards the integrity of GPA data instead of the integrity of the culprit.

 

Furthermore, your use of the phrase 'not some grand auction manipulation master plan as Brent had hoped' adds further fuel to the fire of minimisation.

 

We have no clue whether the rest of what Mr Schmell sold us is actually factual, but even if it was, he admitted to deliberate data manpulation for the financial gain of his consignor and himself.

 

Not 'grand' enough for you, Jim?

[DrWatson]

No, not really. It's nothing new. Call it turning a blind eye. Call it developing a tolerance for such things. Call it complacency. Call it whatever you like. The way I see it, this thread was just one dealer taking a shot at another dealer. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Sure, Brent will be the Comic Hobby Hero of the day... at least until someone decides to fry his balls for whatever reason... again. I figure we will be back to status quo come the weekend. Oh wait, this is the status quo.

[drbanner]

Yeah, the thread evolved allright, now do we not only know that the Pedigree auctions aren't all they're "cracked" up to be (pun intended), but that Doug is selectively reporting his data to GPA.

 

Wah, wah, wah...sorry to all the whiners that seem to think GPA is just as good as it's gonna get and we can take it or leave it and should just let it lay ("...a tool, not the end all be all..."), but Doug throwing out the low sales and only reporting the high sales is BS. I agree with drummy on his ostrich clan comment on this one.

 

GPA is an invaluable tool, and I laud George for his followup here and his efforts to make GPA as good as it can be. Thanks!

[capt_comics]

Just skimmed through this thread this morning

 

 

So comic book prices are actually manipulated............. who knew?

 

 

 

 

 

[capt_comics]

Yeah, the thread evolved allright, now do we not only know that the Pedigree auctions aren't all they're "cracked" up to be (pun intended), but that Doug is selectively reporting his data to GPA.

 

Wah, wah, wah...sorry to all the whiners that seem to think GPA is just as good as it's gonna get and we can take it or leave it and should just let it lay ("...a tool, not the end all be all..."), but Doug throwing out the low sales and only reporting the high sales is BS. I agree with drummy on his ostrich clan comment on this one.

 

GPA is an invaluable tool, and I laud George for his followup here and his efforts to make GPA as good as it can be. Thanks!

 

 

It will never be as good as it could be without full disclosure on all sales

 

Can or will this happen? Can it even be achieved?

 

 

And I do applaud GPA for trying

 

 

 

[qualitycomix]

No, not really. It's nothing new. Call it turning a blind eye. Call it developing a tolerance for such things. Call it complacency. Call it whatever you like. The way I see it, this thread was just one dealer taking a shot at another dealer. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Sure, Brent will be the Comic Hobby Hero of the day... at least until someone decides to fry his balls for whatever reason... again. I figure we will be back to status quo come the weekend. Oh wait, this is the status quo.

 

You always call it the way you see it. And that's fine. All kidding aside in PMs, this was not a dealer taking a shot at another dealer.

 

Just because Doug has been manipulating GPA data does not mean that he is not also buying books back in his auctions if the right numbers are not achieved. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence such as the endless Avengers 4 and ASM 6 running thru his auctions consecutively, the 100+ books that were pulled from the auction results just this auction (not to mention other auctions), the non-reporting of sales for his "buyers" and others.

 

I don't care to be Comic Book Hobby Hero of the day. I took a lot of heat from you and others who thought this was just a pizzing match. Then Doug comes on and admits nothing. After I pressed him with direct questions, he admitted to data manipulation. That does not mean that he didn't also buy his books back, just means that he's admitted to the data manipulation.

 

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

[drbanner]

Thanks for stepping out on this one Brent, I know "calling out" another dealer can't be something that you would take lightly, but you were right to do so. (thumbs u