Pedigree Auction Sales and Relistings. Legit?

[joeypost]

No, not really. It's nothing new. Call it turning a blind eye. Call it developing a tolerance for such things. Call it complacency. Call it whatever you like. The way I see it, this thread was just one dealer taking a shot at another dealer. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Sure, Brent will be the Comic Hobby Hero of the day... at least until someone decides to fry his balls for whatever reason... again. I figure we will be back to status quo come the weekend. Oh wait, this is the status quo.

 

You always call it the way you see it. And that's fine. All kidding aside in PMs, this was not a dealer taking a shot at another dealer.

 

Just because Doug has been manipulating GPA data does not mean that he is not also buying books back in his auctions if the right numbers are not achieved. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence such as the endless Avengers 4 and ASM 6 running thru his auctions consecutively, the 100+ books that were pulled from the auction results just this auction (not to mention other auctions), the non-reporting of sales for his "buyers" and others.

 

I don't care to be Comic Book Hobby Hero of the day. I took a lot of heat from you and others who thought this was just a pizzing match. Then Doug comes on and admits nothing. After I pressed him with direct questions, he admitted to data manipulation. That does not mean that he didn't also buy his books back, just means that he's admitted to the data manipulation.

 

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

 

I can see your other points Brent, but why would someone being able to pick up books at a good price and then re-list them bother you? I would assume this is the model every comic dealer uses when they go into business. Only difference I see is slabs sold under GPA are tracked where raw books picked up for pennies on the dollar are not.

[DrWatson]

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

I can certainly relate. I'm tired of a lot of things. I don't care about pressing. I don't care about disclosure. I don't care about market manipulation. Does that make me a bad collector? A bad hobbyist? I don't know. I guess ultimately it does.

 

Is it giving up or giving in? No, I think it's more of a giving out. And frankly, I guess it's time I take to heart the advice you gave Dale earlier in the thread. If I really don't care about it, then I need to just stop posting.

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

I can certainly relate. I'm tired of a lot of things. I don't care about pressing. I don't care about disclosure. I don't care about market manipulation. Does that make me a bad collector? A bad hobbyist? I don't know. I guess ultimately it does.

 

Is it giving up or giving in? No, I think it's more of a giving out. And frankly, I guess it's time I take to heart the advice you gave Dale earlier in the thread. If I really don't care about it, then I need to just stop posting.

 

Not the answer, Jim.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that whilst you don't care...a position you're clearly entitled to take on any of those issues...you're quick enough to denigrate those who do. You've saved your vitriol in this thread for Brent, not Doug. Doug got a shrug of the shoulders from you, but you've pretty much sneered at Brent and called him out.

 

If you don't care, don't care...but please don't look down on those who do.

[qualitycomix]

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

I can certainly relate. I'm tired of a lot of things. I don't care about pressing. I don't care about disclosure. I don't care about market manipulation. Does that make me a bad collector? A bad hobbyist? I don't know. I guess ultimately it does.

 

Is it giving up or giving in? No, I think it's more of a giving out. And frankly, I guess it's time I take to heart the advice you gave Dale earlier in the thread. If I really don't care about it, then I need to just stop posting.

 

Yeah it sucks that we have to accept this stuff that happens. I know you and others are sick and tired of hearing the c ra p that goes on. Drummy's (Dan) post really summed up a lot of collector's feelings on the matter. You've gotten past that and are basically saying "Yup, it's going on, but it just doesn't matter because there's nothing I can do about it".

 

If the players that decide to manipulate the market are a little scared, that's a good thing. Even if, at the end of the day, it's business as usual, at least it won't be so blatant.

[DrWatson]

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

I can certainly relate. I'm tired of a lot of things. I don't care about pressing. I don't care about disclosure. I don't care about market manipulation. Does that make me a bad collector? A bad hobbyist? I don't know. I guess ultimately it does.

 

Is it giving up or giving in? No, I think it's more of a giving out. And frankly, I guess it's time I take to heart the advice you gave Dale earlier in the thread. If I really don't care about it, then I need to just stop posting.

 

Not the answer, Jim.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that whilst you don't care...a position you're clearly entitled to take on any of those issues...you're quick enough to denigrate those who do. You've saved your vitriol in this thread for Brent, not Doug. Doug got a shrug of the shoulders from you, but you've pretty much sneered at Brent and called him out.

 

If you don't care, don't care...but please don't look down on those who do.

The only people I routinely look down on are those who want to have their cake and eat it too. People with true opinions, whether I think they are right or wrong, catch very little flack from me. I don't care what you stand for, as long as you are consistent. The one thing I try not to be is pious. I don't hold anyone to higher standard than what I expect from myself. Perhaps I need to raise the bar.

[G.A.tor]

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

I can certainly relate. I'm tired of a lot of things. I don't care about pressing. I don't care about disclosure. I don't care about market manipulation. Does that make me a bad collector? A bad hobbyist? I don't know. I guess ultimately it does.

 

Is it giving up or giving in? No, I think it's more of a giving out. And frankly, I guess it's time I take to heart the advice you gave Dale earlier in the thread. If I really don't care about it, then I need to just stop posting.

 

Not the answer, Jim.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that whilst you don't care...a position you're clearly entitled to take on any of those issues...you're quick enough to denigrate those who do. You've saved your vitriol in this thread for Brent, not Doug. Doug got a shrug of the shoulders from you, but you've pretty much sneered at Brent and called him out.

 

If you don't care, don't care...but please don't look down on those who do.

The only people I routinely look down on are those who want to have their cake and eat it too. People with true opinions, whether I think they are right or wrong, catch very little flack from me. I don't care what you stand for, as long as you are consistent. The one thing I try not to be is pious. I don't hold anyone to higher standard than what I expect from myself. Perhaps I need to raise the bar.

going to bars only leads to more drinking, doesn't increase your ability to pick up girls... (thumbs u

[tth2]

I need to just stop posting.

[comicwiz]

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

I can certainly relate. I'm tired of a lot of things. I don't care about pressing. I don't care about disclosure. I don't care about market manipulation. Does that make me a bad collector? A bad hobbyist? I don't know. I guess ultimately it does.

 

Is it giving up or giving in? No, I think it's more of a giving out. And frankly, I guess it's time I take to heart the advice you gave Dale earlier in the thread. If I really don't care about it, then I need to just stop posting.

 

Yeah it sucks that we have to accept this stuff that happens. I know you and others are sick and tired of hearing the c ra p that goes on. Drummy's (Dan) post really summed up a lot of collector's feelings on the matter. You've gotten past that and are basically saying "Yup, it's going on, but it just doesn't matter because there's nothing I can do about it".

 

If the players that decide to manipulate the market are a little scared, that's a good thing. Even if, at the end of the day, it's business as usual, at least it won't be so blatant.

 

There are a couple of ways I look at this whole situation. The first being that on an individual basis, we as collectors still have the choice of expressing ourselves with less words, and more wallet.

 

The second being that eventually, as dealers move more and more towards online venues, and base their revenue generating operation through sales and person to person trading primarily in online environments, there will be no place for them to hide.

 

IMHO, it comes down to preparedness, which folks like you, Bob, and a few other dealers who have posted in this thread appear to recognize. For you and all those that see how online environments force upon each one of us a level of transparency that compels us to assume the role of moral and ethical stewards, the spoils.

 

However, this evolutionary step forward will mean that inevitably there will be laggards, more missteps and plenty of reputation rubber-necking. The other inevitable is how some choose to drive past the wrecks and make the conscious effort to keep their attention on enjoying the ride and keeping their own eyes and hands on the wheel.

 

Outside of our choice to let our wallets speak loudest, we might also come to the realization that public denigration and kicking people when they are down takes a toll on us all, and striking the balance between participation and resignation for any hobby with a promising future will depend on whether we use these experiences to act in a manner where we continue to find thrill in casting the stones and carrying the torches, or offer a helping hand to dust-off the most trying and shameful moments.

[qualitycomix]

No, not really. It's nothing new. Call it turning a blind eye. Call it developing a tolerance for such things. Call it complacency. Call it whatever you like. The way I see it, this thread was just one dealer taking a shot at another dealer. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Sure, Brent will be the Comic Hobby Hero of the day... at least until someone decides to fry his balls for whatever reason... again. I figure we will be back to status quo come the weekend. Oh wait, this is the status quo.

 

You always call it the way you see it. And that's fine. All kidding aside in PMs, this was not a dealer taking a shot at another dealer.

 

Just because Doug has been manipulating GPA data does not mean that he is not also buying books back in his auctions if the right numbers are not achieved. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence such as the endless Avengers 4 and ASM 6 running thru his auctions consecutively, the 100+ books that were pulled from the auction results just this auction (not to mention other auctions), the non-reporting of sales for his "buyers" and others.

 

I don't care to be Comic Book Hobby Hero of the day. I took a lot of heat from you and others who thought this was just a pizzing match. Then Doug comes on and admits nothing. After I pressed him with direct questions, he admitted to data manipulation. That does not mean that he didn't also buy his books back, just means that he's admitted to the data manipulation.

 

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

 

I can see your other points Brent, but why would someone being able to pick up books at a good price and then re-list them bother you? I would assume this is the model every comic dealer uses when they go into business. Only difference I see is slabs sold under GPA are tracked where raw books picked up for pennies on the dollar are not.

 

Take this book for example:

 

Avengers 4 9.4 history according to Doug

1) Bought by Doug from Gary Platt in Oct/Nov 2009

2) Sold in November 2009 Auction to buyer #1 at BELOW Doug's purchase price

3) Buyer #1 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

4) Doug does not report sale to GPA

5) Book is relisted immediately on Pedigree Comics

6) Book does not sell and is put into Pedigree's January Auction

7) Book sells for well below GPA (again) to buyer #2

8) Buyer #2 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

9) Book is pulled from auction results ostensibly so the data would not be reported to GPA

10) Book is relisted on Pedigree Comics immediately

 

What are the chances that 2 separate buyers ask Doug the same question after each auction and then subsequently relist the book immediately?

 

What are the chances that this has happened on hundreds of books in the last 6 months?

[drbanner]

Just skimmed through this thread this morning

 

So comic book prices are actually manipulated............. who knew?

 

 

Yeah, it's amazing what you can learn from the internet!

 

[Paratrooper]

No, not really. It's nothing new. Call it turning a blind eye. Call it developing a tolerance for such things. Call it complacency. Call it whatever you like. The way I see it, this thread was just one dealer taking a shot at another dealer. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Sure, Brent will be the Comic Hobby Hero of the day... at least until someone decides to fry his balls for whatever reason... again. I figure we will be back to status quo come the weekend. Oh wait, this is the status quo.

 

You always call it the way you see it. And that's fine. All kidding aside in PMs, this was not a dealer taking a shot at another dealer.

 

Just because Doug has been manipulating GPA data does not mean that he is not also buying books back in his auctions if the right numbers are not achieved. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence such as the endless Avengers 4 and ASM 6 running thru his auctions consecutively, the 100+ books that were pulled from the auction results just this auction (not to mention other auctions), the non-reporting of sales for his "buyers" and others.

 

I don't care to be Comic Book Hobby Hero of the day. I took a lot of heat from you and others who thought this was just a pizzing match. Then Doug comes on and admits nothing. After I pressed him with direct questions, he admitted to data manipulation. That does not mean that he didn't also buy his books back, just means that he's admitted to the data manipulation.

 

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

 

I can see your other points Brent, but why would someone being able to pick up books at a good price and then re-list them bother you? I would assume this is the model every comic dealer uses when they go into business. Only difference I see is slabs sold under GPA are tracked where raw books picked up for pennies on the dollar are not.

 

Take this book for example:

 

Avengers 4 9.4 history according to Doug

1) Bought by Doug from Gary Platt in Oct/Nov 2009

2) Sold in November 2009 Auction to buyer #1 at BELOW Doug's purchase price

3) Buyer #1 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

4) Doug does not report sale to GPA

5) Book is relisted immediately on Pedigree Comics

6) Book does not sell and is put into Pedigree's January Auction

7) Book sells for well below GPA (again) to buyer #2

8) Buyer #2 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

9) Book is pulled from auction results ostensibly so the data would not be reported to GPA

10) Book is relisted on Pedigree Comics immediately

 

What are the chances that 2 separate buyers ask Doug the same question after each auction and then subsequently relist the book immediately?

 

What are the chances that this has happened on hundreds of books in the last 6 months?

 

But Doug is such a good guy!

[Flaming_Telepath]

No, not really. It's nothing new. Call it turning a blind eye. Call it developing a tolerance for such things. Call it complacency. Call it whatever you like. The way I see it, this thread was just one dealer taking a shot at another dealer. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Sure, Brent will be the Comic Hobby Hero of the day... at least until someone decides to fry his balls for whatever reason... again. I figure we will be back to status quo come the weekend. Oh wait, this is the status quo.

 

You always call it the way you see it. And that's fine. All kidding aside in PMs, this was not a dealer taking a shot at another dealer.

 

Just because Doug has been manipulating GPA data does not mean that he is not also buying books back in his auctions if the right numbers are not achieved. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence such as the endless Avengers 4 and ASM 6 running thru his auctions consecutively, the 100+ books that were pulled from the auction results just this auction (not to mention other auctions), the non-reporting of sales for his "buyers" and others.

 

I don't care to be Comic Book Hobby Hero of the day. I took a lot of heat from you and others who thought this was just a pizzing match. Then Doug comes on and admits nothing. After I pressed him with direct questions, he admitted to data manipulation. That does not mean that he didn't also buy his books back, just means that he's admitted to the data manipulation.

 

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

 

I can see your other points Brent, but why would someone being able to pick up books at a good price and then re-list them bother you? I would assume this is the model every comic dealer uses when they go into business. Only difference I see is slabs sold under GPA are tracked where raw books picked up for pennies on the dollar are not.

 

Take this book for example:

 

Avengers 4 9.4 history according to Doug

1) Bought by Doug from Gary Platt in Oct/Nov 2009

2) Sold in November 2009 Auction to buyer #1 at BELOW Doug's purchase price

3) Buyer #1 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

4) Doug does not report sale to GPA

5) Book is relisted immediately on Pedigree Comics

6) Book does not sell and is put into Pedigree's January Auction

7) Book sells for well below GPA (again) to buyer #2

8) Buyer #2 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

9) Book is pulled from auction results ostensibly so the data would not be reported to GPA

10) Book is relisted on Pedigree Comics immediately

 

What are the chances that 2 separate buyers ask Doug the same question after each auction and then subsequently relist the book immediately?

 

What are the chances that this has happened on hundreds of books in the last 6 months?

 

But Doug is such a good guy!

 

Who's never been caught in a similarly remarkable set of coincidences before!

[buttock]

Just skimmed through this thread this morning

 

So comic book prices are actually manipulated............. who knew?

 

 

Yeah, it's amazing what you can learn from the internet!

 

 

You got that from the internet, didn't you...

[Paratrooper]

No, not really. It's nothing new. Call it turning a blind eye. Call it developing a tolerance for such things. Call it complacency. Call it whatever you like. The way I see it, this thread was just one dealer taking a shot at another dealer. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Sure, Brent will be the Comic Hobby Hero of the day... at least until someone decides to fry his balls for whatever reason... again. I figure we will be back to status quo come the weekend. Oh wait, this is the status quo.

 

You always call it the way you see it. And that's fine. All kidding aside in PMs, this was not a dealer taking a shot at another dealer.

 

Just because Doug has been manipulating GPA data does not mean that he is not also buying books back in his auctions if the right numbers are not achieved. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence such as the endless Avengers 4 and ASM 6 running thru his auctions consecutively, the 100+ books that were pulled from the auction results just this auction (not to mention other auctions), the non-reporting of sales for his "buyers" and others.

 

I don't care to be Comic Book Hobby Hero of the day. I took a lot of heat from you and others who thought this was just a pizzing match. Then Doug comes on and admits nothing. After I pressed him with direct questions, he admitted to data manipulation. That does not mean that he didn't also buy his books back, just means that he's admitted to the data manipulation.

 

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

 

I can see your other points Brent, but why would someone being able to pick up books at a good price and then re-list them bother you? I would assume this is the model every comic dealer uses when they go into business. Only difference I see is slabs sold under GPA are tracked where raw books picked up for pennies on the dollar are not.

 

Take this book for example:

 

Avengers 4 9.4 history according to Doug

1) Bought by Doug from Gary Platt in Oct/Nov 2009

2) Sold in November 2009 Auction to buyer #1 at BELOW Doug's purchase price

3) Buyer #1 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

4) Doug does not report sale to GPA

5) Book is relisted immediately on Pedigree Comics

6) Book does not sell and is put into Pedigree's January Auction

7) Book sells for well below GPA (again) to buyer #2

8) Buyer #2 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

9) Book is pulled from auction results ostensibly so the data would not be reported to GPA

10) Book is relisted on Pedigree Comics immediately

 

What are the chances that 2 separate buyers ask Doug the same question after each auction and then subsequently relist the book immediately?

 

What are the chances that this has happened on hundreds of books in the last 6 months?

 

But Doug is such a good guy!

 

Who's never been caught in a similarly remarkable set of coincidences before!

 

You mean to tell me there's an apparent repeating pattern of behavior? Who saw that coming

[skypinkblu]

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

I can certainly relate. I'm tired of a lot of things. I don't care about pressing. I don't care about disclosure. I don't care about market manipulation. Does that make me a bad collector? A bad hobbyist? I don't know. I guess ultimately it does.

 

Is it giving up or giving in? No, I think it's more of a giving out. And frankly, I guess it's time I take to heart the advice you gave Dale earlier in the thread. If I really don't care about it, then I need to just stop posting.

 

Not the answer, Jim.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that whilst you don't care...a position you're clearly entitled to take on any of those issues...you're quick enough to denigrate those who do. You've saved your vitriol in this thread for Brent, not Doug. Doug got a shrug of the shoulders from you, but you've pretty much sneered at Brent and called him out.

 

If you don't care, don't care...but please don't look down on those who do.

The only people I routinely look down on are those who want to have their cake and eat it too. People with true opinions, whether I think they are right or wrong, catch very little flack from me. I don't care what you stand for, as long as you are consistent. The one thing I try not to be is pious. I don't hold anyone to higher standard than what I expect from myself. Perhaps I need to raise the bar.

I like you, Jim...so I'm not saying this to bash you...but I want to explain my point of view.

 

A friend told me yesterday, when I showed him the thread, that "ignorance is bliss". I know that he didn't mean that in a bad way, but I think he was disgusted.

 

I know that there has been a lot of posts saying "Ho Hum" so someone is doing something less than up front? so what?

 

THAT really bothers me...I suppose I'm a perfect example of someone who learns from these threads.

 

I have only been collecting for about 12 years, before that I was merely accumulating some books. I don't have $10k books, but I have more books than I usually admit. It adds up.

 

When I came to this forum, I had NEVER heard of pressing. I knew very little about restoration.

 

I did and do buy Overstreet. Never used it as a bible, but it was always a good reference tool for me for books I was not familiar with.

 

When I got here,I knew enough that mid grade DCs and Marvels did not go for guide, and Timelys did...but that's about it. I bought most of my books on Ebay. Never heard of GPA when I got here. Still don't really use it myself because only 20 percent or so of my collection is CGC'd and I usually prefer books I can look at.

 

What I also did not know when I got here, is that there were books I had in my collection that went way OVER Overstreet guide, so when I came here, and a few people "needed" some books that I had, I did sell a few at my cost, only to see them flipped immediately.

 

Now..I might still have sold those books...but I would have felt a lot less icky, if I had known the information upfront. So I read a lot. I might STILL make the same decisions, but now I read a lot. I really don't like it when people post about how everything is old, there was a thread years ago, yadda yadda, because unless you KNOW what to look for, you don't know to look for those old threads. I have a feeling I'm not the only one who was never in the "know".

 

Brent and I don't always see eye to eye (he's a lot taller than I am;) However, I'm glad he brought this issue up, no matter how it got turned and twisted, simply because

INFORMATION IS KEY...

 

You just can't have too much of the truth about the hobby available. So, thank you to everyone who provides information! Even if it bores some people, there are some of us who are happy to have it.

 

[buttock]

I'm still waiting for doug to answer the one glaring question here. He has said to "ask away", but has only chosen to answer a select few questions.

 

The one that still lingers is:

 

Has he shilled or bid on books in his own auctions?

 

If so, that goes far beyond market manipulation to just outright chicanery.

[trmoore54]

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

I can certainly relate. I'm tired of a lot of things. I don't care about pressing. I don't care about disclosure. I don't care about market manipulation. Does that make me a bad collector? A bad hobbyist? I don't know. I guess ultimately it does.

 

Is it giving up or giving in? No, I think it's more of a giving out. And frankly, I guess it's time I take to heart the advice you gave Dale earlier in the thread. If I really don't care about it, then I need to just stop posting.

 

Not the answer, Jim.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that whilst you don't care...a position you're clearly entitled to take on any of those issues...you're quick enough to denigrate those who do. You've saved your vitriol in this thread for Brent, not Doug. Doug got a shrug of the shoulders from you, but you've pretty much sneered at Brent and called him out.

 

If you don't care, don't care...but please don't look down on those who do.

The only people I routinely look down on are those who want to have their cake and eat it too. People with true opinions, whether I think they are right or wrong, catch very little flack from me. I don't care what you stand for, as long as you are consistent. The one thing I try not to be is pious. I don't hold anyone to higher standard than what I expect from myself. Perhaps I need to raise the bar.

 

This reminds me of an exchange I had with my son (he's 12...7th grade) the other day. I had picked him up from school and he said "how was your day?" I said, "pretty good, but I had to have a talk with an employee about their work performance..." He said "what was the problem?" I said "his performance level wasn't up to my high expectations..." He paused for a moment, and then said "maybe you oughta lower your expectations..."

[skypinkblu]

No, not really. It's nothing new. Call it turning a blind eye. Call it developing a tolerance for such things. Call it complacency. Call it whatever you like. The way I see it, this thread was just one dealer taking a shot at another dealer. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Sure, Brent will be the Comic Hobby Hero of the day... at least until someone decides to fry his balls for whatever reason... again. I figure we will be back to status quo come the weekend. Oh wait, this is the status quo.

 

You always call it the way you see it. And that's fine. All kidding aside in PMs, this was not a dealer taking a shot at another dealer.

 

Just because Doug has been manipulating GPA data does not mean that he is not also buying books back in his auctions if the right numbers are not achieved. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence such as the endless Avengers 4 and ASM 6 running thru his auctions consecutively, the 100+ books that were pulled from the auction results just this auction (not to mention other auctions), the non-reporting of sales for his "buyers" and others.

 

I don't care to be Comic Book Hobby Hero of the day. I took a lot of heat from you and others who thought this was just a pizzing match. Then Doug comes on and admits nothing. After I pressed him with direct questions, he admitted to data manipulation. That does not mean that he didn't also buy his books back, just means that he's admitted to the data manipulation.

 

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

 

I can see your other points Brent, but why would someone being able to pick up books at a good price and then re-list them bother you? I would assume this is the model every comic dealer uses when they go into business. Only difference I see is slabs sold under GPA are tracked where raw books picked up for pennies on the dollar are not.

 

Joe, I consider you a very honest person. How can it not bother you when someone else is making a profit by not being honest? It's not the profit that is the problem, it's masking the facts.

[buttock]

No, not really. It's nothing new. Call it turning a blind eye. Call it developing a tolerance for such things. Call it complacency. Call it whatever you like. The way I see it, this thread was just one dealer taking a shot at another dealer. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

Sure, Brent will be the Comic Hobby Hero of the day... at least until someone decides to fry his balls for whatever reason... again. I figure we will be back to status quo come the weekend. Oh wait, this is the status quo.

 

You always call it the way you see it. And that's fine. All kidding aside in PMs, this was not a dealer taking a shot at another dealer.

 

Just because Doug has been manipulating GPA data does not mean that he is not also buying books back in his auctions if the right numbers are not achieved. There is plenty of circumstantial evidence such as the endless Avengers 4 and ASM 6 running thru his auctions consecutively, the 100+ books that were pulled from the auction results just this auction (not to mention other auctions), the non-reporting of sales for his "buyers" and others.

 

I don't care to be Comic Book Hobby Hero of the day. I took a lot of heat from you and others who thought this was just a pizzing match. Then Doug comes on and admits nothing. After I pressed him with direct questions, he admitted to data manipulation. That does not mean that he didn't also buy his books back, just means that he's admitted to the data manipulation.

 

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

 

I can see your other points Brent, but why would someone being able to pick up books at a good price and then re-list them bother you? I would assume this is the model every comic dealer uses when they go into business. Only difference I see is slabs sold under GPA are tracked where raw books picked up for pennies on the dollar are not.

 

Take this book for example:

 

Avengers 4 9.4 history according to Doug

1) Bought by Doug from Gary Platt in Oct/Nov 2009

2) Sold in November 2009 Auction to buyer #1 at BELOW Doug's purchase price

3) Buyer #1 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

4) Doug does not report sale to GPA

5) Book is relisted immediately on Pedigree Comics

6) Book does not sell and is put into Pedigree's January Auction

7) Book sells for well below GPA (again) to buyer #2

8) Buyer #2 asks Doug not to disclose sale to GPA

9) Book is pulled from auction results ostensibly so the data would not be reported to GPA

10) Book is relisted on Pedigree Comics immediately

 

What are the chances that 2 separate buyers ask Doug the same question after each auction and then subsequently relist the book immediately?

 

What are the chances that this has happened on hundreds of books in the last 6 months?

 

But Doug is such a good guy!

 

Who's never been caught in a similarly remarkable set of coincidences before!

 

You mean to tell me there's an apparent repeating pattern of behavior? Who saw that coming

 

It only became apparent after Brent pointed out that it had been trimmed. The first time Doug managed to slide it by CGC.

 

 

oh wait, wrong discussion.

[trmoore54]

I'm really tired of seeing the same really expensive books run thru his auctions at no reserve and the the ones that sell below GPA end up on his site the next day.

I can certainly relate. I'm tired of a lot of things. I don't care about pressing. I don't care about disclosure. I don't care about market manipulation. Does that make me a bad collector? A bad hobbyist? I don't know. I guess ultimately it does.

 

Is it giving up or giving in? No, I think it's more of a giving out. And frankly, I guess it's time I take to heart the advice you gave Dale earlier in the thread. If I really don't care about it, then I need to just stop posting.

 

Not the answer, Jim.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that whilst you don't care...a position you're clearly entitled to take on any of those issues...you're quick enough to denigrate those who do. You've saved your vitriol in this thread for Brent, not Doug. Doug got a shrug of the shoulders from you, but you've pretty much sneered at Brent and called him out.

 

If you don't care, don't care...but please don't look down on those who do.

The only people I routinely look down on are those who want to have their cake and eat it too. People with true opinions, whether I think they are right or wrong, catch very little flack from me. I don't care what you stand for, as long as you are consistent. The one thing I try not to be is pious. I don't hold anyone to higher standard than what I expect from myself. Perhaps I need to raise the bar.

I like you, Jim...so I'm not saying this to bash you...but I want to explain my point of view.

 

A friend told me yesterday, when I showed him the thread, that "ignorance is bliss". I know that he didn't mean that in a bad way, but I think he was disgusted.

 

I know that there has been a lot of posts saying "Ho Hum" so someone is doing something less than up front? so what?

 

THAT really bothers me...I suppose I'm a perfect example of someone who learns from these threads.

 

I have only been collecting for about 12 years, before that I was merely accumulating some books. I don't have $10k books, but I have more books than I usually admit. It adds up.

 

When I came to this forum, I had NEVER heard of pressing. I knew very little about restoration.

 

I did and do buy Overstreet. Never used it as a bible, but it was always a good reference tool for me for books I was not familiar with.

 

When I got here,I knew enough that mid grade DCs and Marvels did not go for guide, and Timelys did...but that's about it. I bought most of my books on Ebay. Never heard of GPA when I got here. Still don't really use it myself because only 20 percent or so of my collection is CGC'd and I usually prefer books I can look at.

 

What I also did not know when I got here, is that there were books I had in my collection that went way OVER Overstreet guide, so when I came here, and a few people "needed" some books that I had, I did sell a few at my cost, only to see them flipped immediately.

 

Now..I might still have sold those books...but I would have felt a lot less icky, if I had known the information upfront. So I read a lot. I might STILL make the same decisions, but now I read a lot. I really don't like it when people post about how everything is old, there was a thread years ago, yadda yadda, because unless you KNOW what to look for, you don't know to look for those old threads. I have a feeling I'm not the only one who was never in the "know".

 

Brent and I don't always see eye to eye (he's a lot taller than I am;) However, I'm glad he brought this issue up, no matter how it got turned and twisted, simply because

INFORMATION IS KEY...

 

You just can't have too much of the truth about the hobby available. So, thank you to everyone who provides information! Even if it bores some people, there are some of us who are happy to have it.

 

 

Good post Sharon!

 

Let's face it...not just in comic-collecting, but in all of life, in ALL of our relationships...personal, husband, wife, work, neighbors, the dry-cleaner...NO ONE wants to be manipulated. We try all of our life to be smart, and not let people take advantage of us. When it happens, we feel like s hit...but the good thing, the silver lining if you will is we LEARN from it, and hopefully get smarter.

 

People gaming the system engage in sliding the line...back and forth some time but in a lot of cases, inching it outward...again...and again. Once a gamer, always a gamer more often than not. Sure we can forgive people and should when they are truly honest and remorseful for their actions, because they took advantage of someone through dishonesty.

 

Life's a short trip. I'd rather spend it with people that are straight up and not be worried someone's pizzin' down my shirt telling me it's raining...