htmlcomics.com Does this change EVERYTHING?

[scottish]

In a (somewhat) same vein - how does a retailer like Half Price Books work? Do they have to pay a royalty to the publisher(s) and creator(s) of what they sell?

I'm not familiar with them. Most of those discount book stores are just buying overstock.

 

Obviously a bit different from what is being discussed here. I agree that it's a concern in regard to intellectual rights. I was in agreement with the claim from the site owner that it operated as a 'library' of sorts.

It is doubtful that their claim of being a library would hold up in any country in the world.

 

A library buys a book and then people can freely read it at no cost. How is that different here? If a fellow collector who had purchased every comic known to exist (such as Levine with DC) and then posted them online much like htmlcomics has, how is that different from a traditional library?

Well, for one they didn't buy all these comics. When a book is purchased by a library they only gain the rights to that book in its book form. That is why you don't see your local library scanning their books and putting them online. The library gets the rights to lend the book, but not distribute. A library also wont make a photocopy of an entire book and pass them out either. Thats what a digital scan is.

 

Most libraries have DVDs and audio tapes available too. Would you believe the argument if I posted The Blind Side for example online for all to watch free, that I am just a library and I have a right to do that?

 

If the site has been shutdown, I'm sure the owner is going to eventually be finacially destroyed for life with legal bills and fines. That doesn't happen to most libraries.

 

Sorry I'm not great with interspersing the quote function.

 

Half Price Books buy from private individuals. I can take old books I have and they will pay a small price for them. I don't think they buy overstock, but could be wrong.

 

I know the site owner didn't buy all of the comics listed, but one of my arguments was what if they did - how are they different from a library?

 

I can refute your comment on libraries and digital distribution. We have at least two in our area (King County for certain) that allows people to digitally download books from home to read. My wife has already done this numerous times. Obviously it isn't a permanent copy - there is a time limit in which she has to read the book, but they certainly do it now.

[ComicConnoisseur]

The reason why Marvel/DC probally haven`t taken any action is because they make most of comicbook money from the new stuff, the old stuff are very poor sellers, the essentials/masterworks/omni`s only sell between 1,000 to 2,000 copies. Marvel/DC probally look at it as a win, this guy is getting thier old stuff into hands of people that would have never read it. Free publicity of the characters. Think about how comic sales are so low that this doesn`t really have a affect on them but keeps interest in thier characters alive so people will go see thier superhero movies and play the videogames were the real money is. This guy is getting the Marvel/DC stuff out for free and instead of Marvel and DC paying some company do it.

Just thoughts.

[RichardWrite-migration]

....and yet, there's no denying that reading a library copy is also cutting into the author's profits. So yes, legally it's more acceptable.....but why is it morally any better? Especially since most libraries get donations which they do NOT pay for.

[Cimm]

heh... online comics... who'da thunk that would be the sticking point wherein illegal and immoral become separate entities... I am a lifelong collector of comics, I am a comic scanner... I scan so as to share books I love with a wider audience... the morality of the thing never even occurred to me when I started, and to this day seems like a stretch... I do not agree with Disney-esque "copyright in perpetuity"... Once the actual person who created a piece, be it a story, a poem, a work of art, whatever, once they're dead - copyRIGHT ends. All else is just a money grab by people without the ingenuity to make a living on their own creations... and the work in question becomes the property of the human race, to be enjoyed, shared, or discarded, as per the merits of the individual piece... I scan and share what I love, and what I love is vintage comics, pulps, and art.

 

As for the scanning and sharing of modern books... that is a much more ambiguous area... on the one hand, it puts the books in front of eyes that may never have seen them otherwise, and thus MAY be generating more sales for the quality work... but for the most part, on the other hand, it is taking books that no one will ever read more than once, and putting them into a format that will generate very little to no sales (52, anyone?)...

-Cimmerian32

[scottish]

....and yet, there's no denying that reading a library copy is also cutting into the author's profits. So yes, legally it's more acceptable.....but why is it morally any better? Especially since most libraries get donations which they do NOT pay for.

 

I would have to say it's morally better because it isn't illegal. I understand your argument, but I think the bottom line is that one venue is legal and the other is not. To many people that legal line is also the moral one and should not be crossed.

 

I've read some issues of 'Y The Last Man' on htmlcomics. Do I feel like I'm cheating doing this? Sometimes, but that's just me - no judgment on those that use the site more extensively.

 

I'm still curious as to an answer on the question I posed previously. If a large comic collector who purchase very copy in their possession, scanned and posted their collection online for all to read - how would that differ from the current library format? Other than some special provision libraries receive as a public entity?

 

OR: Same collector opens a brick and mortar location in a mall and lets everyone come in to read whatever they want - how would that be different?

 

 

[RichardWrite-migration]

To further illustrate how tenuous the argument is that it's immoral to read comics online that you haven't paid for......Someone please tell me how much more money the comic creator will make by me reading it at the library than they'll get by me reading it online?

[Cimm]

To further illustrate how tenuous the argument is that it's immoral to read comics online that you haven't paid for......Someone please tell me how much more money the comic creator will make by me reading it at the library than they'll get by me reading it online?

 

It depends... did you enjoy it? Will you re-read it? Did you like it enough to want a copy on your shelf to share with visitors to your home, or just to have and look at on your own in your favourite easy-chair? A scan of quality material will generate more buyers of the TPB... a scan of drek will be the same as a printing of drek... very few people will buy it, and less will read it...

[the blob]

can refute your comment on libraries and digital distribution. We have at least two in our area (King County for certain) that allows people to digitally download books from home to read. My wife has already done this numerous times. Obviously it isn't a permanent copy - there is a time limit in which she has to read the book, but they certainly do it now.

---------------

 

are these books in the public domain (meaning copyright has lapsed)? there are tens of thousands of books available to download for free that are no longer undercopyright. i have downloaded a couple of my great grandfather's this way that i could not find actual copies of anywhere.

[the blob]

OR: Same collector opens a brick and mortar location in a mall and lets everyone come in to read whatever they want - how would that be different?

---

 

because h's not copying and distributing the copies!!! that's what makes it a copyright violation, not letting someone look at the actual hardcopy of the comic you purchased.

[Ares]

heh... online comics... who'da thunk that would be the sticking point wherein illegal and immoral become separate entities... I am a lifelong collector of comics, I am a comic scanner... I scan so as to share books I love with a wider audience... the morality of the thing never even occurred to me when I started, and to this day seems like a stretch... I do not agree with Disney-esque "copyright in perpetuity"... Once the actual person who created a piece, be it a story, a poem, a work of art, whatever, once they're dead - copyRIGHT ends. All else is just a money grab by people without the ingenuity to make a living on their own creations... and the work in question becomes the property of the human race, to be enjoyed, shared, or discarded, as per the merits of the individual piece... I scan and share what I love, and what I love is vintage comics, pulps, and art.

 

As for the scanning and sharing of modern books... that is a much more ambiguous area... on the one hand, it puts the books in front of eyes that may never have seen them otherwise, and thus MAY be generating more sales for the quality work... but for the most part, on the other hand, it is taking books that no one will ever read more than once, and putting them into a format that will generate very little to no sales (52, anyone?)...

-Cimmerian32

 

You part of DCP?

[Cimm]

heh... online comics... who'da thunk that would be the sticking point wherein illegal and immoral become separate entities... I am a lifelong collector of comics, I am a comic scanner... I scan so as to share books I love with a wider audience... the morality of the thing never even occurred to me when I started, and to this day seems like a stretch... I do not agree with Disney-esque "copyright in perpetuity"... Once the actual person who created a piece, be it a story, a poem, a work of art, whatever, once they're dead - copyRIGHT ends. All else is just a money grab by people without the ingenuity to make a living on their own creations... and the work in question becomes the property of the human race, to be enjoyed, shared, or discarded, as per the merits of the individual piece... I scan and share what I love, and what I love is vintage comics, pulps, and art.

 

As for the scanning and sharing of modern books... that is a much more ambiguous area... on the one hand, it puts the books in front of eyes that may never have seen them otherwise, and thus MAY be generating more sales for the quality work... but for the most part, on the other hand, it is taking books that no one will ever read more than once, and putting them into a format that will generate very little to no sales (52, anyone?)...

-Cimmerian32

 

 

You part of DCP?

Nope... I chose to stay independent, as there is always some kind of BS involved with groups. They are mainly dedicated to modern comics anyway, and that just isn't my bag

 

[Ares]

heh... online comics... who'da thunk that would be the sticking point wherein illegal and immoral become separate entities... I am a lifelong collector of comics, I am a comic scanner... I scan so as to share books I love with a wider audience... the morality of the thing never even occurred to me when I started, and to this day seems like a stretch... I do not agree with Disney-esque "copyright in perpetuity"... Once the actual person who created a piece, be it a story, a poem, a work of art, whatever, once they're dead - copyRIGHT ends. All else is just a money grab by people without the ingenuity to make a living on their own creations... and the work in question becomes the property of the human race, to be enjoyed, shared, or discarded, as per the merits of the individual piece... I scan and share what I love, and what I love is vintage comics, pulps, and art.

 

As for the scanning and sharing of modern books... that is a much more ambiguous area... on the one hand, it puts the books in front of eyes that may never have seen them otherwise, and thus MAY be generating more sales for the quality work... but for the most part, on the other hand, it is taking books that no one will ever read more than once, and putting them into a format that will generate very little to no sales (52, anyone?)...

-Cimmerian32

 

 

You part of DCP?

Nope... I chose to stay independent, as there is always some kind of BS involved with groups. They are mainly dedicated to modern comics anyway, and that just isn't my bag

 

Whats your handle if I may ask

[comix4fun]

heh... online comics... who'da thunk that would be the sticking point wherein illegal and immoral become separate entities... I am a lifelong collector of comics, I am a comic scanner... I scan so as to share books I love with a wider audience... the morality of the thing never even occurred to me when I started, and to this day seems like a stretch... I do not agree with Disney-esque "copyright in perpetuity"... Once the actual person who created a piece, be it a story, a poem, a work of art, whatever, once they're dead - copyRIGHT ends. All else is just a money grab by people without the ingenuity to make a living on their own creations... and the work in question becomes the property of the human race, to be enjoyed, shared, or discarded, as per the merits of the individual piece... I scan and share what I love, and what I love is vintage comics, pulps, and art.

 

As for the scanning and sharing of modern books... that is a much more ambiguous area... on the one hand, it puts the books in front of eyes that may never have seen them otherwise, and thus MAY be generating more sales for the quality work... but for the most part, on the other hand, it is taking books that no one will ever read more than once, and putting them into a format that will generate very little to no sales (52, anyone?)...

-Cimmerian32

 

You part of DCP?

 

 

I've always loved that song.

 

"You down with DCP???"

 

"Yeah you know me!!"

[Cimm]

heh... online comics... who'da thunk that would be the sticking point wherein illegal and immoral become separate entities... I am a lifelong collector of comics, I am a comic scanner... I scan so as to share books I love with a wider audience... the morality of the thing never even occurred to me when I started, and to this day seems like a stretch... I do not agree with Disney-esque "copyright in perpetuity"... Once the actual person who created a piece, be it a story, a poem, a work of art, whatever, once they're dead - copyRIGHT ends. All else is just a money grab by people without the ingenuity to make a living on their own creations... and the work in question becomes the property of the human race, to be enjoyed, shared, or discarded, as per the merits of the individual piece... I scan and share what I love, and what I love is vintage comics, pulps, and art.

 

As for the scanning and sharing of modern books... that is a much more ambiguous area... on the one hand, it puts the books in front of eyes that may never have seen them otherwise, and thus MAY be generating more sales for the quality work... but for the most part, on the other hand, it is taking books that no one will ever read more than once, and putting them into a format that will generate very little to no sales (52, anyone?)...

-Cimmerian32

 

 

You part of DCP?

Nope... I chose to stay independent, as there is always some kind of BS involved with groups. They are mainly dedicated to modern comics anyway, and that just isn't my bag

 

Whats your handle if I may ask

 

[the blob]

can refute your comment on libraries and digital distribution. We have at least two in our area (King County for certain) that allows people to digitally download books from home to read. My wife has already done this numerous times. Obviously it isn't a permanent copy - there is a time limit in which she has to read the book, but they certainly do it now.

---------------

 

are these books in the public domain (meaning copyright has lapsed)? there are tens of thousands of books available to download for free that are no longer undercopyright. i have downloaded a couple of my great grandfather's this way that i could not find actual copies of anywhere.

 

----------------

 

well, it looks like the library has a license to lend out copies of these books scanned as pdfs and what not. as you can see they have a limited # of each book available for download at each time, you agree not to copy it, etc. etc. etc.

 

if the publisher is willing to sell the library these pdfs like this under these terms and allow them to lend them out like this then that is between the publisher/author and the library. perhaps the library pays more for these, i don't know. like i said, publishers bend over backwards to accomodate libraries as we're looking at thousands of sales to libraries in the U.S. for a well distributed book. think of how many counties there are, how many libraries, etc.

[Ares]

[Comicopolis]

So, is this a moral argument or a legal one?

[scottish]

can refute your comment on libraries and digital distribution. We have at least two in our area (King County for certain) that allows people to digitally download books from home to read. My wife has already done this numerous times. Obviously it isn't a permanent copy - there is a time limit in which she has to read the book, but they certainly do it now.

---------------

 

are these books in the public domain (meaning copyright has lapsed)? there are tens of thousands of books available to download for free that are no longer undercopyright. i have downloaded a couple of my great grandfather's this way that i could not find actual copies of anywhere.

 

Nope. Recent releases per my wife.

[scottish]

OR: Same collector opens a brick and mortar location in a mall and lets everyone come in to read whatever they want - how would that be different?

---

 

because h's not copying and distributing the copies!!! that's what makes it a copyright violation, not letting someone look at the actual hardcopy of the comic you purchased.

 

Gotcha! Sorry for being so dense.

[Annihilus]

So, is this a moral argument or a legal one?

 

That's a good question...initially I thought it was a legal one, which I am interested in, but then morality went and slinked in the door and it became much less interesting. Morality, much like politics and religion, is usually a circular discussion that never gets anywhere, whereas legality is much more black and white. You're generally not going to change anyone's mind when discussing morality.