30/35 cent books with diamond and blank box

[RockMyAmadeus]

They were essentially grouped by whatever "theme" was in vogue on that day, packed up, and sent out. Western distributed THOUSANDS of books in this manner, so not much attention was paid to what got shoved in what, so if they got a UPC coded stack of books...who cares? Into the 3-Packs it went.

 

This kind of stuff just makes me shake my head. You don't really believe this, do you? That Whitman just tossed in whatever they wanted, yet ALL of the pre-packs from a given series contained the exact same books?

 

No. No, no, no. I didn't say that at all. Yes, they all contained the same books in any given pack. It is rather the selection of the SETS that are is random. For example...there's a Batman 3-pack that contains #145, 146, and 147. However, there's no #148 and #149, picking up again with #150. Why? Because Whitman did not CARE which indvidual books went in a set...they just kept the sets consistent.

 

Same with Amazing Spiderman #173, 174, 175....but no #176, 177, or #178.

 

Why not?

 

Because Whitman had enough books to assemble their 3-packs for a while.

 

It just seems like a wildassed theory to explain away something that is far more simple. Whitmans were Diamond copies from 1977-79, and the UPC didn't matter except on the outer issue.

 

But this doesn't explain why Marvel printed BOTH versions, at additional cost. World Color doesn't just change stuff "for free", even for Marvel, and why would they, without specific instruction from Marvel?

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Books with the Large Diamond but with blank UPC were almost certainly printed specifically for inclusion in Whitman's 3-Packs, and ordered by Whitman from Marvel as such....however, because Whitman is known to have stockpiled books, this explains why UPC coded books also made their way into 3-Packs.

 

 

Nice reply RMA.

 

, I guess you've never opened up many Whitman packs. I have, and there are some multi-issue runs that have the FIRST issue with a blank UPC, and subsequent issues with the UPC. Whitman was only worried that the top issue would be mistakenly rung into the system, rather than the pack, but there was no reason to care about subsequent comics.

 

I will add one thing I got from an old distributor I met through eBay around 2000. He said, and with certainty, that (and I'm paraphrasing), "if Marvel did do "test runs" of Direct Copies, they would have to have the Month on them - Whitmans would not logically, as you don't want to stale date pre-packs, but comics on the comic store shelves would require a Month".

 

This is a very good point, but I don't know that it carries the weight that you and the old distributor think it does. Cover dates are important for newsstands, so they know when a book is supposed to come OFF sale and be returned for credit...but why would this affect a comics specialty store buying books that are not returnable...?

 

Now, there are a few of these Diamond books with Months on them, but they are very rare and only a few 1977-78/early-79 have them. So those might be actual test Direct Copies... The problem is, that some UPC copies have a month, while others do not, and I also believe that some blank UPC copies also have a month, while most naturally don't.

Rare?

 

Every single Feb, 1977 large diamond (there are 14) carries the month.

 

 

Every single March, 1977 large diamond (there are 14) carries the month.

 

 

Every single April, 1977 large diamond (there are 10) carries the month.

 

 

Every single May, 1977 large diamond (there are 16) EXCEPT Spectacular Spiderman #6 has the cover date.

 

It is not until Jun, 1977 cover dates that the dates disappear wholesale.

 

Yes, I know you said "early 1977", but I would hardly call four months and 53 different books "rare"...

 

I think that supports the idea that these WERE initially copies sent to everyone, and Western complained about the stale dating...which led to their removal by June cover date, and sporadic use afterwards, a la Tarzan #16.

[joe_collector]

There is a MAJOR fault in your logic:

 

The Direct Market is the one that doesn't use UPCs and would never use this as a default format. To call them 'definitely Direct Market copies sent to LCSs" is 100% illogical, as they should have received blank UPC copies.

 

Check out the Direct Market Editions from the *real* start in mid-1979 - either blank or a crossed-out UPC, just like they should be.

[joe_collector]

But this doesn't explain why Marvel printed BOTH versions, at additional cost. World Color doesn't just change stuff "for free", even for Marvel, and why would they, without specific instruction from Marvel?

 

Huh? So that stores couldn't rip this discounted material open and return the individual issues for credit. Think about it.

 

I used to go to stores with Whitman 3-packs and the price was lower than 3 other comparably priced off-the-rack comics, and then they usually discounted those further. It would be a financial windfall for those to be returnable, hence the different covers, which seemed to work (and as per OS) were then adopted by the DM in 1979/80.

[Spider-Variant]

You know the sad thing about all this great discussion, is that in about three months, someone else will ask the same question as the OP, and this will start again, with the same points and counterpoints.

 

Wish there was a spot to keep some of these threads highlighted. Not sure if pasting them at the top is what I mean either.

 

 

 

[shadroch]

This is one of the most civil exchanges I've seen in a thread for awhile, and has been highly educational to boot.

[ShieldAgent]

This is one of the most civil exchanges I've seen in a thread for awhile, and has been highly educational to boot.

 

shadroch the firestarter

 

lets play a different game: like them or not, they are variants, and your sets (whoever and whatever) are not really complete unless you have both versions

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

There is a MAJOR fault in your logic:

 

The Direct Market is the one that doesn't use UPCs and would never use this as a default format. To call them 'definitely Direct Market copies sent to LCSs" is 100% illogical, as they should have received blank UPC copies.

 

Check out the Direct Market Editions from the *real* start in mid-1979 - either blank or a crossed-out UPC, just like they should be.

 

That's simply not true. When UPCs were new, no one was sure exactly HOW they would be used....remember, this was an EXPERIMENT. They didn't work out all the bugs for 2+ years. By early 1979, Marvel HAD figured out that the DM didn't need UPC codes either, along with Western.

 

You haven't answered my question: why did Marvel print BOTH UPC and blanks, even for the same issue, if they were ALL going to the same place....? This change would have cost Marvel money to World Color. So, if they were ALL going to Western...why the need for different covers? Surely this wasn't an accident (once, twice, maybe...multiple times, over 2 years? Highly unlikely), and surely someone at Marvel gave this order. Why? Changing the plates...even grinding off the codes...would have cost Marvel money from World Color. If they were all headed to Western, as you say, why the difference?

 

That is the key on which this whole discussion hinges.

[RockMyAmadeus]

But this doesn't explain why Marvel printed BOTH versions, at additional cost. World Color doesn't just change stuff "for free", even for Marvel, and why would they, without specific instruction from Marvel?

 

Huh? So that stores couldn't rip this discounted material open and return the individual issues for credit. Think about it.

 

I used to go to stores with Whitman 3-packs and the price was lower than 3 other comparably priced off-the-rack comics, and then they usually discounted those further. It would be a financial windfall for those to be returnable, hence the different covers, which seemed to work (and as per OS) were then adopted by the DM in 1979/80.

 

I'm not talking about large diamonds versus squares. I'm talking about UPC codes versus blanks.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

You know the sad thing about all this great discussion, is that in about three months, someone else will ask the same question as the OP, and this will start again, with the same points and counterpoints.

 

Wish there was a spot to keep some of these threads highlighted. Not sure if pasting them at the top is what I mean either.

 

 

 

 

You know, though, if we keep talking about it, someone who actually can document what happened, and why, will eventually show up.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

This is one of the most civil exchanges I've seen in a thread for awhile, and has been highly educational to boot.

 

It's been a passion of mine ever since I discovered the price variants, and the large diamonds, wayyyy back in the early 90's.

 

Sadly, I didn't pursue them as passionately, and didn't even KNOW about the 35 test variants.

[ShieldAgent]

You know the sad thing about all this great discussion, is that in about three months, someone else will ask the same question as the OP, and this will start again, with the same points and counterpoints.

 

Wish there was a spot to keep some of these threads highlighted. Not sure if pasting them at the top is what I mean either.

 

 

 

 

You know, though, if we keep talking about it, someone who actually can document what happened, and why, will eventually show up.

 

 

I am going to place my bet on "doubt it", but it would be nice.

 

[ShieldAgent]

This is one of the most civil exchanges I've seen in a thread for awhile, and has been highly educational to boot.

 

It's been a passion of mine ever since I discovered the price variants, and the large diamonds, wayyyy back in the early 90's.

 

Sadly, I didn't pursue them as passionately, and didn't even KNOW about the 35 test variants.

 

I will give you two nice minty 35's for that midgrade KC209 30.

[fastballspecial]

Ah another Whitman Discussion like we havent had this one before.

 

Personally I only chase the bursted Star copies cuz they pretty.

[cloudofwit]

Has anyone ever proposed that joe_collector and RockMyAmadeus are one and the same? If not, let me propose it now. This thread is a perfect example of a great double identity secretly shaping, honing, and perfecting arguments until the best possible outcome is achieved. May the best man win. :shrug:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

This is one of the most civil exchanges I've seen in a thread for awhile, and has been highly educational to boot.

 

It's been a passion of mine ever since I discovered the price variants, and the large diamonds, wayyyy back in the early 90's.

 

Sadly, I didn't pursue them as passionately, and didn't even KNOW about the 35 test variants.

 

I will give you two nice minty 35's for that midgrade KC209 30.

 

You know, I'm STILL annoyed CGC graded it a 5.0.

 

It's a NICE looking book. Ah well. You know CGC and their "we hate long creases, no matter how light, even if they are on the back cover" stance.

 

And I'll take...lessee...Iron Fist #14 and Star Wars #1.

 

Let me know when I should expect them, and I'll get the KC in the mail...

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Has anyone ever proposed that joe_collector and RockMyAmadeus are one and the same? If not, let me propose it now. This thread is a perfect example of a great double identity secretly shaping, honing, and perfecting arguments until the best possible outcome is achieved. May the best man win. :shrug:

 

 

I can't be JC. I'm MUCH more handsome...and I have a sense of humor.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

The best looking 5.0 I'll ever see....

 

Maybe I should have it pressed..

 

 

I bought that bad boy from Tom Kalb in 1999 for a whole dollar! That was back when he was having one of his "I hate comics, and I hate comic collectors, so I'm gonna dump everything and do something else" moods...I ran across it totally randomly in some short box, saw it was a 30 center, and bought it...having no idea it was one of the top 5 rarest 30 centers in existence.

 

[ShieldAgent]

...having no idea it was one of the top 5 rarest 30 centers in existence.

 

 

not sure it is top 5, but probably top 10

 

that is another thread tho

[ShieldAgent]

Has anyone ever proposed that joe_collector and RockMyAmadeus are one and the same? If not, let me propose it now. This thread is a perfect example of a great double identity secretly shaping, honing, and perfecting arguments until the best possible outcome is achieved. May the best man win. :shrug:

 

that is not even funny