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whitman question ?

Started by marino1,

59 posts in this topic

marino1

marino1

Posted
Posted

i have an amaz spiderman#192 cgc 9.4 that has a blank upc code and the price in the diamond and wanted to know if this is the whitman? do these sell for more or about the same as the regular and why does cgc not put whitman on the label like other variants? thanks

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted
i have an amaz spiderman#192 cgc 9.4 that has a blank upc code and the price in the diamond and wanted to know if this is the whitman? do these sell for more or about the same as the regular and why does cgc not put whitman on the label like other variants? thanks

 

I'm guessing that's a Whitman. :insane:

95609.jpg.b291893a7dd17ae3554fe5e78f165c12.jpg

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bellrules

bellrules

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Posted

Here we go is right. Look at DC and Marvel books from the same age, packaged in the same type of bag. One is clearly a Whitman variant while the other looks exactly the same as a direct market comics of the 1980's that did not have a UPC on them.

 

http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2770747810010367626SIaGYr

 

 

Not having a UPC on the direct market versions continued well into the 2000's ( look at the WTC Amazing Spider-man issue for example) Does that make all the Star Wars blank UPC ones Whitmans as well. You used to be able to buy those individually in ads for comics in the 1970's and 80's. Doug Sulipa has addressed this numerous times in Overstreet.

 

 

"WHITMAN Variants of MARVEL comics ??; One of the most controversial areas in the hobby. For the last 2-3 years i have seen many eBay sellers claiming that WHITMAN Variant's of Marvel comics exist. Some assume (incorrectly) that the early DIRECT variants with Black Diamond's, (No UPC box, slash thru UPC box, etc), must be "Whitman variants". The Newsstand copies are easy to identify (They have the full UPC CODE, plus they have the letters "cc" for Curtis Circulation always on the cover); YES, there were "Whitman" PLASTIC BAGS from 2/1977-1979 that had Black Diamond copies inside the bag. But these Black Diamond copies were widely sold to Comic Stops nationwide as "DIRECT" only NON-Returnable comics. They might have been originally specially produced for whitman by Marvel,

but very early on, were simaltaneously sold to Seagate. Seagate incorperated in 11/1977, but they seem to have sold DIRECT books before that time. DIRECT copies are still made today. ONCE OUT OF THE "Whitman" BAG, these copies are IDENTICAL to Seagate DIRECT copies and one cannot them them apart. In fact today's DIRECT market copies well outnumber the Newsstand copy print runs on almost everything. Marvel simply made NON-Returnable editions, which they sold to Whitman to put in their plastic bags. These NON-Returnable editions were also sold to the comics shop market thru Phil Seuling of Seagate. To make it more clear; ONLY THE PLASTIC BAG is a WHITMAN product. Marvel simply used Whitman as another venue to sell their comics, as they did with Seagate. They are more correctly termed "Early DIRECT Market" copies. Apparently the WHITMAN bag experiment lasted from 2/1977 thru 1979 & ended abruptly. The DIRECT Non-Returnable editions kept getting distributed to the comic shop market, as several competitors to Seagate entered the market. The 2-12/1977 "Early DIRECT Market" VARIANTS had small

print runs, estimated at 2-10% of the total Print Run & in fact remain quite collectible (i sell them at a +30-50% Premium); I also estimate that the 1978 & 1979 "DIRECT Market" VARIANTS had small print runs, estimated at 10-20% of the total Print Run (i sell them at a +15-30% Premium); Thus the 1977-1979 VARIANTS are the main collectible ones & should gain value as time goes on & awareness sinks in. For 1980-1985 the "DIRECT Market" Print Runs soared & thus are less collectible as Variants. Although Newsstand copies might have still outnumbered the 1980-1985 DIRECT Market copies, the SURVIVAL Rates differ widely. Perhaps 90% of the DIRECT Market copies exist in Dealer Inventories or Private Collections. Whereas perhaps only 20-50% of the Newsstand copies sold mailny to non-collectors, still exist today. Reasearcher extordinaire Jon McClure will soon publish an article proving WHITMAN did NOT publish any Marvel comics, (as they did for DC & Gold Key), other than a few Treasury's. There was a few months where Marvel seemed to have FORGET to mark the differences, (July/1978, March/1979 & April/1979) as they were experimenting HOW to mark NON-Returnable comics. These months exist only in standard Newsstand copies.

A few "Reprints" also exist in "WHITMAN" Polybags, but these too were sold to the DIRECT market. (But sold better in the Pre-Pack market, than in the Direct market, as reprints were not deemed collectible) The REPRINTS seem to be confined to a small number of LICENCED Popular Products of the Period, mostly brought on by the Huge Success of STAR WARS. Marvel was careful to mark REPRINT on the small number of issues that they did reprint. Overstreet has INCORRECTLY listed Shogun Warriors #1-3 and Micronauts #1-3 for many years as "Reprints" because of the blank UPC boxes. But if you check all the other "Direct" market marvels of the same months, you will see in fact that they have the identical markings & are in fact NOT reprints. Actually, most of these Reprints are quite a bit SCARCER than the Original Newsstand editions & should be MORE valuable, rather than LESS valuable, to Variant collectors.

The EMPTY "WHITMAN" bags were availiable in the early 1980's. The Newsstand Distriburor in our area had them availiable. They might have also been availiable in the DIRECT Market. [Any sealed factory bags of the 1977-1979 period with books from the same month, were certainly NOT the EMPTY jobber leftover bag variety].

I have seen a few 1980's books in sealed Whitman Polybags with mixed contents. These bags are typically filled with 1980's leftovers & slow sellers, by dealers who wanted to clear out overstock & then heat sealed. They can contain comics from different months, different years & different publishers. Occasioanally even Direct & Newsstand in the same bag. I have seen sealed packs for example with Arak & Kazar in the same bag. These JOBBER Clearance packs are of LOW value,"

 

Doug is situated in Winnipeg Manitoba. Winnipeg was a major distribution hub for comic books in Western Canada. Hope that helps.

 

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ShieldAgent

ShieldAgent

Posted
Posted
Here we go is right. Look at DC and Marvel books from the same age, packaged in the same type of bag. One is clearly a Whitman variant while the other looks exactly the same as a direct market comics of the 1980's that did not have a UPC on them.

 

http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2770747810010367626SIaGYr

 

 

Not having a UPC on the direct market versions continued well into the 2000's ( look at the WTC Amazing Spider-man issue for example) Does that make all the Star Wars blank UPC ones Whitmans as well. You used to be able to buy those individually in ads for comics in the 1970's and 80's. Doug Sulipa has addressed this numerous times in Overstreet.

 

 

"WHITMAN Variants of MARVEL comics ??; One of the most controversial areas in the hobby. For the last 2-3 years i have seen many eBay sellers claiming that WHITMAN Variant's of Marvel comics exist. Some assume (incorrectly) that the early DIRECT variants with Black Diamond's, (No UPC box, slash thru UPC box, etc), must be "Whitman variants". The Newsstand copies are easy to identify (They have the full UPC CODE, plus they have the letters "cc" for Curtis Circulation always on the cover); YES, there were "Whitman" PLASTIC BAGS from 2/1977-1979 that had Black Diamond copies inside the bag. But these Black Diamond copies were widely sold to Comic Stops nationwide as "DIRECT" only NON-Returnable comics. They might have been originally specially produced for whitman by Marvel,

but very early on, were simaltaneously sold to Seagate. Seagate incorperated in 11/1977, but they seem to have sold DIRECT books before that time. DIRECT copies are still made today. ONCE OUT OF THE "Whitman" BAG, these copies are IDENTICAL to Seagate DIRECT copies and one cannot them them apart. In fact today's DIRECT market copies well outnumber the Newsstand copy print runs on almost everything. Marvel simply made NON-Returnable editions, which they sold to Whitman to put in their plastic bags. These NON-Returnable editions were also sold to the comics shop market thru Phil Seuling of Seagate. To make it more clear; ONLY THE PLASTIC BAG is a WHITMAN product. Marvel simply used Whitman as another venue to sell their comics, as they did with Seagate. They are more correctly termed "Early DIRECT Market" copies. Apparently the WHITMAN bag experiment lasted from 2/1977 thru 1979 & ended abruptly. The DIRECT Non-Returnable editions kept getting distributed to the comic shop market, as several competitors to Seagate entered the market. The 2-12/1977 "Early DIRECT Market" VARIANTS had small

print runs, estimated at 2-10% of the total Print Run & in fact remain quite collectible (i sell them at a +30-50% Premium); I also estimate that the 1978 & 1979 "DIRECT Market" VARIANTS had small print runs, estimated at 10-20% of the total Print Run (i sell them at a +15-30% Premium); Thus the 1977-1979 VARIANTS are the main collectible ones & should gain value as time goes on & awareness sinks in. For 1980-1985 the "DIRECT Market" Print Runs soared & thus are less collectible as Variants. Although Newsstand copies might have still outnumbered the 1980-1985 DIRECT Market copies, the SURVIVAL Rates differ widely. Perhaps 90% of the DIRECT Market copies exist in Dealer Inventories or Private Collections. Whereas perhaps only 20-50% of the Newsstand copies sold mailny to non-collectors, still exist today. Reasearcher extordinaire Jon McClure will soon publish an article proving WHITMAN did NOT publish any Marvel comics, (as they did for DC & Gold Key), other than a few Treasury's. There was a few months where Marvel seemed to have FORGET to mark the differences, (July/1978, March/1979 & April/1979) as they were experimenting HOW to mark NON-Returnable comics. These months exist only in standard Newsstand copies.

A few "Reprints" also exist in "WHITMAN" Polybags, but these too were sold to the DIRECT market. (But sold better in the Pre-Pack market, than in the Direct market, as reprints were not deemed collectible) The REPRINTS seem to be confined to a small number of LICENCED Popular Products of the Period, mostly brought on by the Huge Success of STAR WARS. Marvel was careful to mark REPRINT on the small number of issues that they did reprint. Overstreet has INCORRECTLY listed Shogun Warriors #1-3 and Micronauts #1-3 for many years as "Reprints" because of the blank UPC boxes. But if you check all the other "Direct" market marvels of the same months, you will see in fact that they have the identical markings & are in fact NOT reprints. Actually, most of these Reprints are quite a bit SCARCER than the Original Newsstand editions & should be MORE valuable, rather than LESS valuable, to Variant collectors.

The EMPTY "WHITMAN" bags were availiable in the early 1980's. The Newsstand Distriburor in our area had them availiable. They might have also been availiable in the DIRECT Market. [Any sealed factory bags of the 1977-1979 period with books from the same month, were certainly NOT the EMPTY jobber leftover bag variety].

I have seen a few 1980's books in sealed Whitman Polybags with mixed contents. These bags are typically filled with 1980's leftovers & slow sellers, by dealers who wanted to clear out overstock & then heat sealed. They can contain comics from different months, different years & different publishers. Occasioanally even Direct & Newsstand in the same bag. I have seen sealed packs for example with Arak & Kazar in the same bag. These JOBBER Clearance packs are of LOW value,"

 

Doug is situated in Winnipeg Manitoba. Winnipeg was a major distribution hub for comic books in Western Canada. Hope that helps.

 

I go back to JC's X-men example to debunk the premise of that post.

 

 

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shadroch

shadroch

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I'm new to this area and am way behind on the learning curve, but I must say I have a problem calling a book a Whitman copy, simply because it was sold in a bag marked Whitman. I'll go along with it be much rarer than the regular book, but am uneasy with the current terminolgy.

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500Club

500Club

Posted
Posted
Here we go is right. Look at DC and Marvel books from the same age, packaged in the same type of bag. One is clearly a Whitman variant while the other looks exactly the same as a direct market comics of the 1980's that did not have a UPC on them.

 

http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2770747810010367626SIaGYr

 

 

Not having a UPC on the direct market versions continued well into the 2000's ( look at the WTC Amazing Spider-man issue for example) Does that make all the Star Wars blank UPC ones Whitmans as well. You used to be able to buy those individually in ads for comics in the 1970's and 80's. Doug Sulipa has addressed this numerous times in Overstreet.

 

Take a look at the other Whitman thread. :gossip:

 

The main area of debate is the pre-1979 diamond books.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

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lol

 

You guys are gonna hate me for this...

 

Amazing Spiderman #192 is an official Direct Market copy, as are all blank UPC box books with a cover date of May, 1979.

 

Here's why: May, 1979 was the cover transition month for Marvel and the official start of the Direct Market program company wide. After a gap of two months from the last of the so-called "Whitman" books (except for the licensed books Battlestar Galactica, Micronauts, and Shogun Warriors), most of the books published by Marvel with a May, 1979 cover date had both a newsstand AND a "diamond" copy. Half the books printed had the old "large diamond", while the other half had the "new" small diamond (which then won out as the "official" Direct Market cover designation.)

 

Only 10 titles did NOT have both versions for May, 1979 (known), and half of those were either a last issue, bi-monthly, or otherwise published sporadically. Only 5 monthly books, Defenders #71, X-Men #121, Spiderwoman #15, Master of Kung Fu #76, and Marvel Tales #103 have only newsstand copies known. By June cover date, only TWO books do not have a direct copy printed (this time, back to the square price/number boxes with line through UPC code), and by July, every Marvel book had both a Direct and newsstand version known...newsstands with UPC and Directs with lines through UPC codes until Jan, 1980, when Spidey head first appears.

 

This was AFTER the aforementioned 2 month gap between the last of the "Whitman" books and the start of the Direct Market program at Marvel, which then had no other gap.

 

As a sort of unrelated side, I've been looking for this book for 20 years:

 

IMG_2691.jpg

 

I believe it only existed as a mock up, and was never printed. It's the only image of any 35 cent May, 1979 cover dated Marvel.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

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Posted
I'm new to this area and am way behind on the learning curve, but I must say I have a problem calling a book a Whitman copy, simply because it was sold in a bag marked Whitman. I'll go along with it be much rarer than the regular book, but am uneasy with the current terminolgy.

 

One more disciple.... :cloud9:

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Amazing Spiderman #192 is an official Direct Market copy, as are all blank UPC box books with a cover date of May, 1979.

 

Isn't it actually June 1979-and-on books that are official Direct Market copies?

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