Anti CGC

[G.A.tor]

Oh and I call bs on your post...anyone with even an ounce of intelligence or ability to make casual observations know that cgc has done more for our hobby than any other single entity in the past 10 years ... Sure you are entitled to your opinion about cgc, no problem there...but not sure there are too many that would support your pov

 

Sure, for the dealer or flipper, but not necessarily for the collector.

 

I would say as much for the collector, if not more... as a collector too, I like (no make that "love") the resto check... before cgc, it was a lot, lot "worse" in terms of intentional and unintentional lack of resto disclosure, on items being sold online (via any venue) and even at cons.... sure, if you are at a con, inspecting the book yourself raw can be a real plus, but even then, I am sure there are many collectors that are not confident in spotting resto... cgc removes most of that risk (nothing is 100% of course)...

 

and, I would also say that for every dealer/flipper selling a book on line, a collector is presumably buying it (at least some %)... having a 3rd party establish a grade, has GREATLY facilitated and increased online sales of books... there can be no denying that, right? I mean, how many threads do we have about avoiding online sellers that can't grade, or "if it was cgc'd I would buy it"

 

as for the flipside, my guess is that to some buyers, cgc has hurt the dealer... how many dealers have been talked about as "over graders" etc... and, since price is tied to grade, having the book cgc'd removes that potential "overgrading" and should bring the price back in line (doesn't always work that way, I know)...

 

when the major auction houses like Heritage and Comiclink pretty much "only" auction cgc'd books (I am refering to featured auctions, not weekly type), that has to say something positive about them, imo

 

 

[Monstro]

For the big money collectors, guys spending thousand of dollars on a single comic, I’m sure it makes the shelling out of all that money an easier pill to swallow. The resto check, the third party grading etc.

 

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

 

[tth2]

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

In terms of transactional volume? Sure. But in terms of total dollar volume? I don`t think so. It takes a lot of $1 book sales to equal one 8.5 Action #1 sale. 1,500,000 of them, as a matter of fact.

[Monstro]

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

In terms of transactional volume? Sure. But in terms of total dollar volume? I don`t think so. It takes a lot of $1 book sales to equal one 8.5 Action #1 sale. 1,500,000 of them, as a matter of fact.

 

Yes, like I said, for the dealers and flippers it's a good thing, brings in more money.

[VintageComics]

For the big money collectors, guys spending thousand of dollars on a single comic, I’m sure it makes the shelling out of all that money an easier pill to swallow. The resto check, the third party grading etc.

 

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

 

Ken, there are lots of Sig. Series collectors, modern, copper and bronze collectors and they all want graded, authenticated books.

 

Bob Storms brought a complete run of CGC graded moderns in the 6.0-8.0 range and they sold like hot cakes in Chicago.

 

The whole point behind CGC was to eliminate most deceit, inconsistency and level the playing field with resto, and although there are some slight inconsistencies that can be found in any system (and used to someone's advantage), the positives far outweigh the negatives by such a large percentage that it's just a necessary thing IMO.

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

In terms of transactional volume? Sure. But in terms of total dollar volume? I don`t think so. It takes a lot of $1 book sales to equal one 8.5 Action #1 sale. 1,500,000 of them, as a matter of fact.

 

Yes, like I said, for the dealers and flippers it's a good thing, brings in more money.

 

...and for collectors who want to make sure they are not getting gouged with restored or heavily overgraded books it's an even better thing.

 

Among dealers, grading and pricing is relatively consistent. I can buy a book from Rick or Tim and agree on grade and price even without a CGC case.

 

It's the novice and the collector that it benefits the most because you can buy a CGC graded book any where in the world and have a reasonable idea of what you are getting. Not so with a raw book. Your stake is entirely on the reputation of the seller and that is not always a good thing.

 

 

[G.A.tor]

For the big money collectors, guys spending thousand of dollars on a single comic, I’m sure it makes the shelling out of all that money an easier pill to swallow. The resto check, the third party grading etc.

 

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

without a doubt, top end is small... but, there are thousands and thousands of SA and GA ( a good % of the market) that are benefitting from cgc...

 

now, copper and newer, I agree, why bother with cgc (I mean a 9.6 or 9.8 or 9.9, I can't tell the diff)...

 

but, as far as golden age comics go, i think cgc has been hugely favorable for the hobby (both sides)

[G.A.tor]

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

In terms of transactional volume? Sure. But in terms of total dollar volume? I don`t think so. It takes a lot of $1 book sales to equal one 8.5 Action #1 sale. 1,500,000 of them, as a matter of fact.

 

Yes, like I said, for the dealers and flippers it's a good thing, brings in more money.

that 8.5 action 1 sold for "comparable" money in 1993 as it did today... it would have sold in a fortress today, for the same 1.5 million, imo.... this is one case where I don't think cgc helped (might have even "hurt" the book with the rusty staples notation)

[G.A.tor]

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

In terms of transactional volume? Sure. But in terms of total dollar volume? I don`t think so. It takes a lot of $1 book sales to equal one 8.5 Action #1 sale. 1,500,000 of them, as a matter of fact.

 

Yes, like I said, for the dealers and flippers it's a good thing, brings in more money.

I would also say that in many cases, it brings in less money for the dealer ... why? because a dealer might try to call a VF book a NM book (and to the dealer it might be a NM, by their standards, but the market has adopted cgc standards, for the most part), and once it is cgc'd at VF, they are not getting their raw NM price...

[showcase22gr1959]

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

In terms of transactional volume? Sure. But in terms of total dollar volume? I don`t think so. It takes a lot of $1 book sales to equal one 8.5 Action #1 sale. 1,500,000 of them, as a matter of fact.

 

Yes, like I said, for the dealers and flippers it's a good thing, brings in more money.

I would also say that in many cases, it brings in less money for the dealer ... why? because a dealer might try to call a VF book a NM book (and to the dealer it might be a NM, by their standards, but the market has adopted cgc standards, for the most part), and once it is cgc'd at VF, they are not getting their raw NM price...

 

It's also for people who are picky and pay attention to lots of detail. It's like...my copy is better than your copy and this copy in the same grade is a weaker than the other in the same grade.

[Monstro]

Damit, have to leave for survey, can't finish this conversation right now.

[G.A.tor]

We'll be here when you get back (thumbs u

[Jeffro.]

...and for collectors who want to make sure they are not getting gouged with restored or heavily overgraded books it's an even better thing.

 

I'm certainly not anti-CGC but there are some who gouge based on the fact that the book has been graded by CGC. That's what's always annoyed me about professional grading and it's not even only a CGC thing. Whenever a collectible is put in a case and has been graded by a reputable third party grading service, the price invariably goes up. This seem to be especially true for 9.8s and above and even moreso when it's the only copy certified in that grade.

 

I think the resto check is a huge positive for collectors. What can be a negative for collectors is when you have to pay more for a comic just because it's been graded by CGC when a comparable raw copy will sell for less in most cases.

[bluechip]

But my guess is that top end of the market is just a very small percentage of the hobby.

In terms of transactional volume? Sure. But in terms of total dollar volume? I don`t think so. It takes a lot of $1 book sales to equal one 8.5 Action #1 sale. 1,500,000 of them, as a matter of fact.

 

Yes, like I said, for the dealers and flippers it's a good thing, brings in more money.

 

...and for collectors who want to make sure they are not getting gouged with restored or heavily overgraded books it's an even better thing.

 

Among dealers, grading and pricing is relatively consistent. I can buy a book from Rick or Tim and agree on grade and price even without a CGC case.

 

It's the novice and the collector that it benefits the most because you can buy a CGC graded book any where in the world and have a reasonable idea of what you are getting. Not so with a raw book. Your stake is entirely on the reputation of the seller and that is not always a good thing.

 

 

After the last few pages it might be okay to ease up now. If CGC were a guy it would've come three times already.

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

Bob Storms brought a complete run of CGC graded moderns in the 6.0-8.0 range and they sold like hot cakes in Chicago.

 

You are going to need to explain this one to me in order to get me to believe it.

[Jeffro.]

 

Bob Storms brought a complete run of CGC graded moderns in the 6.0-8.0 range and they sold like hot cakes in Chicago.

 

You are going to need to explain this one to me in order to get me to believe it.

 

Bob had a plate of hot cakes in Chicago and was selling those as well. Sales were slow thus the comparison to the slabs.

[VintageComics]

...but wouldn't the price be going up because demand is going up?

 

What keeps the price down? 1 of 2 things. Lack of demand? Too much supply.

 

Buyer confidence can increase demand and that in turn drives prices up.

 

 

[Jeffro.]

...but wouldn't the price be going up because demand is going up?

 

What keeps the price down? 1 of 2 things. Lack of demand? Too much supply.

 

Buyer confidence can increase demand and that in turn drives prices up.

 

 

There might be some buyer confidence related demand there sure. there also might be lemming, herd mentality, slab chasing going on.

 

It's still the same comic that it was pre-slabbing. Exactly the same. The only difference is now it's in that plastic holder. Same comic + slab = higher price

 

The idea that I can buy one comic raw for $$ and then it's comparable slabbed counterpart for $$$$ is just nuts. You're paying those extra $$ just because it's slabbed. Nothing more.

[G.A.tor]

...and for collectors who want to make sure they are not getting gouged with restored or heavily overgraded books it's an even better thing.

 

I'm certainly not anti-CGC but there are some who gouge based on the fact that the book has been graded by CGC. That's what's always annoyed me about professional grading and it's not even only a CGC thing. Whenever a collectible is put in a case and has been graded by a reputable third party grading service, the price invariably goes up. This seem to be especially true for 9.8s and above and even moreso when it's the only copy certified in that grade.

 

I think the resto check is a huge positive for collectors. What can be a negative for collectors is when you have to pay more for a comic just because it's been graded by CGC when a comparable raw copy will sell for less in most cases.

my feeling is the cost of an accurately graded raw comic should be equivalent to a cgc counterpart, less the cost of the grading... just my take

[VintageComics]

...and for collectors who want to make sure they are not getting gouged with restored or heavily overgraded books it's an even better thing.

 

I'm certainly not anti-CGC but there are some who gouge based on the fact that the book has been graded by CGC. That's what's always annoyed me about professional grading and it's not even only a CGC thing. Whenever a collectible is put in a case and has been graded by a reputable third party grading service, the price invariably goes up. This seem to be especially true for 9.8s and above and even moreso when it's the only copy certified in that grade.

 

I think the resto check is a huge positive for collectors. What can be a negative for collectors is when you have to pay more for a comic just because it's been graded by CGC when a comparable raw copy will sell for less in most cases.

my feeling is the cost of an accurately graded raw comic should be equivalent to a cgc counterpart, less the cost of the grading... just my take

 

They are the same. This discussion just goes around in circles.

 

Collectors, nay even dealers were paying multiples of guide for true high grade books before ever CGC was even an inkling in someone's mind. It was normal to pay 3-5 times guide for a perfect mint book 15 years ago.

 

CGC has simply made the transaction or commerce side of buying and selling comics that much easier therefore increasing demand (funnily enough)....and this increase likely came from increased confidence on the part of the buyer.

 

The increase in confidence IMO is what has caused people to spend more and more money on comics.