When will moderns go down in price?

[ComicConnoisseur]

In another topic I keep seeing people say that moderns will only go down in price so my question is when do you think this will happen ?! Also if it gets to the point where moderns are down won't that really be bad for comics as a hole ... If there was that much of a drop of interest in moderns & I can't really see comics them self doing well.. & would think it would also affect golden age prices as well...

 

I haven't seen anyone actually try to answer your question yet. Most people seem to be assuming that Moderns are already worthless, but they're wrong, certain issues have gone up in price and have retained those levels for extended periods of time. Examples include Uncanny X-Men #266, Amazing Spider-Man #300, Amazing Spider-Man #36 (all-black cover 9/11 issue), Amazing Spider-Man Obama cover, Ultimate Spider-Man #1, etc. Many moderns have gone up in price and I'm curious about the dynamics behind that pricing myself due to the reasons everyone is pointing out, the fact that they're relatively common yet still frequently command a premium.

 

I don't really know the answer to your question, but I do know that a drop in Modern prices has very little relationship to the value of Gold or Silver comics. The entire reason Modern comics are likely to go down at some point is due to the fact that there are so many high-grade copies in collectors' possessions, but the entire reason Gold and Silver are valuable is the opposite, there are so few still in existence.

Did you noticed that 4 out of the 5 books you named were Spider-man related books? basically this is a quick rundown of the market and this has been the market for 20 years except for the niche modern stuff. btw this is just a quick guide there is more than this.

golden age= Superman stuff,Batman stuff and Timelys.

silver age= Marvel silver age keys plus now Showcase 22

bronze age = first appearances CGC high grade especially 9.6 to 9.8

copper age = those 4 of those 5 keys you just mentioned and TMNT 1.

modern = Walking Dead and a bunch of niche books.

over all Modern age is a much better investment then copper age, Copper age is in abundance and easily can be found.

of course there is more to the golden age than that but thats a quick rundown.

The books I bought in the years 1976 to 1994 have been great stuff to read but terrible investment wise, avoid just about everything from that period if your looking for investments.

I recommend golden age for long term investments

and modern books for a short term investment, if you get the right modern you can make a quick flip, take the profits then invest in the golden age stuff or the silver age keys. avoid Marvel/DC copper for investments.

just my opinion and I could be wrong.

[codfish]

I find that the pattern is the book comes out at regular price on the shelf, stays on shelf for a few months. Then it gets put in the back issue boxes with maybe a price increase of like .50 to a $1. If they don't sell out of those boxes after a couple years they get shipped down to the $1 - $1.50 boxes. That is for majority of moderns except the few exceptions that do well here and there that where popular.

 

Will the common place modern have any value in the future? I doubt it except again for those few exceptions.

 

I have applied this to how I buy now for the most part when it comes to moderns. Only for Moon Knight main series will I go after the variants now. For any of his appearances in other titles books that have variants I will now just wait it out. Especially the silly 1 in 75's. Because of this I will actually be missing a few books towards my completion in the future. For example the 1 in 75 Secret Avengers #2 Deodato (Moon Knight cover) because I am no longer willing to pay these insane prices just to get a cover for a modern book. I may in the future cut out even trying to get modern variants for appearances all together and just try and have a complete storyline of placement for him and get just the regular issues which I have been leaning more and more towards lately. I may even start not even buying Moon Knight appearances off the shelf for the regular covers and wait for those books to hit the $1 bins.

 

Anyways I am going to wait on certain books over time to get them cheaply instead of having that have to have it now attitude since most moderns go down eventually for the most part.

 

As long as the market continues to maintain the current number of collectors/readers (it really hasn't changed, unfortunately, in the last 30 years) the most of the books will not have much "value". When I started collecting vary few books from the 70's and 80's were worth very much in back issue. You could find them cheap in back issue bins or for .25 cents in the overstock stacks (literally messy stack of books not in long boxes). In the late 1980's and 1990's it was becoming increasingly rare to find 1970's stuff on the cheap (relatively speaking). They were gone, except for very low grade stuff, from overstock and back issue prices were starting to rise well over their original cover prices. In the late 1990's to now it is the stuff from the 1980's that is becoming less common in the discount bins and the back issue prices are starting to rise.

 

And so forth. It will always be the perception that modern books are not worth the paper they are printed on. For 20 or so years that holds fairly true. Eventually though, as those older issues become harder to find their prices increase. Amazingly, despite zero growth in collector numbers for decades, this pattern has held up for 30+ years I have been collecting (just like the whining about cover price increases has).

[rjpb]

Don't look for many early 90s mainstream books to ever be worth much. The massive print runs and hoarding that went with them means there will be way more copies than is demand for pretty much forever.

 

I don't follow it very closely, but it seems that even a "hot" book like New Mutants #98 shows up in dollar boxes with some frequency.

[whisp]

I find that the pattern is the book comes out at regular price on the shelf, stays on shelf for a few months. Then it gets put in the back issue boxes with maybe a price increase of like .50 to a $1. If they don't sell out of those boxes after a couple years they get shipped down to the $1 - $1.50 boxes. That is for majority of moderns except the few exceptions that do well here and there that where popular.

 

Will the common place modern have any value in the future? I doubt it except again for those few exceptions.

 

I have applied this to how I buy now for the most part when it comes to moderns. Only for Moon Knight main series will I go after the variants now. For any of his appearances in other titles books that have variants I will now just wait it out. Especially the silly 1 in 75's. Because of this I will actually be missing a few books towards my completion in the future. For example the 1 in 75 Secret Avengers #2 Deodato (Moon Knight cover) because I am no longer willing to pay these insane prices just to get a cover for a modern book. I may in the future cut out even trying to get modern variants for appearances all together and just try and have a complete storyline of placement for him and get just the regular issues which I have been leaning more and more towards lately. I may even start not even buying Moon Knight appearances off the shelf for the regular covers and wait for those books to hit the $1 bins.

 

Anyways I am going to wait on certain books over time to get them cheaply instead of having that have to have it now attitude since most moderns go down eventually for the most part.

 

As long as the market continues to maintain the current number of collectors/readers (it really hasn't changed, unfortunately, in the last 30 years) the most of the books will not have much "value". When I started collecting vary few books from the 70's and 80's were worth very much in back issue. You could find them cheap in back issue bins or for .25 cents in the overstock stacks (literally messy stack of books not in long boxes). In the late 1980's and 1990's it was becoming increasingly rare to find 1970's stuff on the cheap (relatively speaking). They were gone, except for very low grade stuff, from overstock and back issue prices were starting to rise well over their original cover prices. In the late 1990's to now it is the stuff from the 1980's that is becoming less common in the discount bins and the back issue prices are starting to rise.

 

And so forth. It will always be the perception that modern books are not worth the paper they are printed on. For 20 or so years that holds fairly true. Eventually though, as those older issues become harder to find their prices increase. Amazingly, despite zero growth in collector numbers for decades, this pattern has held up for 30+ years I have been collecting (just like the whining about cover price increases has).

 

That is fine and dandy but we are missing one thing that has to be clearly noted and that is the preservation of comics.

 

Back in the day people didn't put comics straight into board and bag like we do these days. Back in the day they use to come with subscription creases and whatever else done to them.

 

I am not positive how long ago bag and boarding became popular but I am going to guess it started in the last 25 years thus why some of the older books went up in value due hard to find in that nice high grade. Look at golden age books and silver age books for example. I know that silver age collectors are happy with a nice 6.0 and up when it comes to their silver age and will try and upgrade from there.

 

Not sure about bronze age and if people had started bagging and boarding then yet.

 

But once copper age hit everyone was bagging and boarding their comics especially the shops. That is why you see boxes and boxes of it at your lcs.

 

And now with moderns pretty much even the customers bag and board it as they get their books after reading it once or twice. I know I do.

 

Thus we have alot more preserved comics when it comes to moderns which I think will affect availibility greatly and make them not as hard to find as previous eras thus making them not worth as much and easier to find.

 

[Schmakt]

Publishers could do a lot by cutting back on the "high quality" materials... I much prefer the way comics felt in the early 90's to the way they feel and are manufactured these days... MUCH...

[FlyingDonut]

To answer the original question, Tuesday, April 6, 2011, at approximately 3:44 PM EST.

 

That answer is as good as any other. Are we going to argue about the number of angels on a pin next?

[G.A.tor]

To answer the original question, Tuesday, April 6, 2011, at approximately 3:44 PM EST.

 

That answer is as good as any other. Are we going to argue about the number of angels on a pin next?

7

[whisp]

To answer the original question, Tuesday, April 6, 2011, at approximately 3:44 PM EST.

 

That answer is as good as any other. Are we going to argue about the number of angels on a pin next?

 

Hmm

 

I thought it was 12-21-2012 at 4:43 AM PST

 

And what pin are we talking about?

[the blob]

greater volume could make up for that. in 1990 comics were $1 (or were they still 75 cents?) and there were plenty of folks making a good living at this. most things have not gone up 300% in price since 1990. $2 would be more palatable and comics being more like 30-32 pages at that price. back-up stories could fill in the extra pages and I'm sure there are lots of young guns breaking into the business who could be happy to add 6-8 pages of content on the cheap or they could do reprints or mix it up.

 

You are assuming that they would do a greater volume if they were cheaper. I think that is wrong. The access to comics is not even close to what it was in 1990. Materials are not as cheap and creators were not making even close to what they are now.

 

Every time they tweak the price up people here (and elsewhere) say they have dropped a few titles. I pass on $3.99 books I might buy at $2.99 or $2. I'd certainly try more things at $2. I buy a lot of the $1 books when they come out. I think $2 is an easier sell in the 7-11 or supermarket or whatever market comic cos should be trying to get back into.

 

$2 cover prices would also mean that overstock hitting the dollar box would not be a big money loser for the shop owner. back in the early mid/80s when comics were 50-60 cents my neighborhood LCS routinely put the overstock in the 3/$1 box (except for whatever was hot like x-men). they sold well and he didn't lose money.

 

Overstock is just that. Either they are books that dealers overestimated demand on or they are books that are simply not moving so they are trying to move them on the cheap to make room for books that ARE moving. As soon as a book is marked down more than 40% of cover price the dealer is taking a loss or very close to it. Margin values have NOT changed that much over the last 20 years. They may not lose as much but they will still be losing on "overstock"

 

On the margins people pass on books when they have hit their budget as well.

 

I KNOW I would buy more stuff at $2 than $3-$4, particularly to get the nicest copy I could rather than "hoping" what gets tossed in the overstock box isn't bent up.

 

Yeah and in 1990 I am sure you were saying this too. Only at that time you were saying that you would buy more if comics were 50 cents and not the outrageous 1.00. What if you were making enough money to buy more books? Would you be buying? Are you not making more than you were in 1990? I am sure you could cut out some of your other expenses so you could buy more books. It's the same thing. I know if I spent more wisely I could buy more comics. I could have in 1990 too but I am sure I was probably saying it was up to the comic companies and the dealers to take the brunt of my mis-spending.

 

Well, I wasn't buying comics in 1990 anymore, so I don't know, I came back a few years later. In the mid-90s I think I cut way back when they went up from $1.25 to $1.50 or $1.75, I forget. With that said, if in 1996 there were as many interesting titles at the typical LCS (outside of marvel, DC and image) as there are now I would have been buying more. Sadly, I make about the same as I did in 1996 and have wayyyyyy less disposable income as I have a mortgage and a kid to worry about and only had student loans back then (and $600/mo rent!).

 

Face it, comics are not going down in price. Ever. It is just not feasible to do so unless a whole host of other things change. Some within the industry and some outside the industry. IMO people would be even more upset if the prices of comics went down because you would have to get a whole lot less. There is simply no way that any company is going to give their customer MORE quality for less price but still pay the most of the same production costs. Maybe if printing costs, materials costs, computers, creators, etc were cheaper they might might be able to give more for less but just what are the chance of that? Even if you decrease those costs you still have the problem of access and with comic companies cutting down cost enough to get that one dollar cleaved off the price you would expect them to increase access to the product?

 

 

Aren't production costs cheaper in some ways now due to computers? Weren't paper prices tanking because of so much recycling? My $2 proposal is just keeping in line with inflation vs. $1 prices. Actually, it's A LOT more than inflation over the last 20 years, but I figure some costs have grown faster than inflation. Of course, maybe the comic cos would prefer high prices that push people toward digital downloads, which even at 99 cents a pop are likely going to be far more profitable than $3 floppies.

 

Is the talent getting paid more now? I seem to remember the talent make oodles in the early 90's. Sure, creators have more say in things now and get a bigger piece, that's true.

[the blob]

I don't follow it very closely, but it seems that even a "hot" book like New Mutants #98 shows up in dollar boxes with some frequency.

--------

 

dealers are human and make mistakes. there are 30 and 35 cent variants in dollar boxes too. i picked up a nice hulk 340 out of a dollar box not too long ago. many dealers simply drag the same boxes around or randomly pull out of storage and do not cull through their inventory carefully to avoid mistakes.

[jerome34]

It is not only the price per item that hurts, it is also the number of items

per week. I am one of the last of the "DC completionists." Now that the

cover price for one weeks DC output ranges from $100 to $300+ I am

seriously considering saying "after I will stop getting

new issues." That includes stop getting them now, stop getting them out

of the 50 cent box, stop period.

 

If I seriously considered my collection in investment terms, the stop date

should have been at least 20 years ago. The cost of buying all the

new stuff (and I get a very good discount from my LCS), means that

regardless of how many GA and SA books I have and how little I paid for

them 20 or more years ago, the wholesale value of my DC collection

(now over 40,000 different books), will still be about the same as what

I have spent on it over the 28 years I have been collection. No matter

how much the old books appreciate, they (at best) equal the amount

spent on the new books, trades, HCs, Absolutes, and dratted variants.

 

DC seems to be trying very hard to eliminate everyone from collecting

the whole line. I skip the figures and CMX etc and it is still a lot of stuff

per year. Even including the few books which go up in value (ignoring

most variants which come down to cover price), the wholesale value of the

books with cover price under $5.00 is still about 5 cents.

 

If the few of us crazy folks stop (I guess less than 100 for the world), a

lot of titles that survive on "just barely selling enough copies" will go

under. After all, how many LCSs order only one copy of a bunch of

titles each month for that "one dumb geek who gets everything?"

 

I am sure the same thing is true of Marvel. Both companies seem to

be in a constant contest at "how much stuff can we put out each week?"

and, even worse, "how many variants can we put out?" especially

the "here is a title that only 10 LCS in the world order more than 30

copies - let us put out a 1:75 variant."

[Designer Toast]

Dollar boxes

 

If we're talking about a price decrease on new books, I seriously doubt we'll see it.

 

What peeves me, and I've learned my lesson, is seeing a modern I paid cover for a few months ago on the dollar rack at my LCS. I only buy three titles each month now and my LCS only offers 10% off for three or more titles.

 

I had a minor stroke when I was a kid after seeing books get jacked up all the way to seventy-five cents

[NewWorldOrder]

Are you talking about cover price?

 

Or back issue price?

 

Because with the former, I doubt it will ever happen, but if it did, it would be good for the industry.

 

As for the latter, most moderns have no value beyond their reading content.

Ultimate Spider-man #1 seams to be the exception to the rule.

 

Nope that book will barely be a $25.00 books in 3 years.

 

That books is really no longer relevant as the Ultimate universe will be canceled within two years.

 

That book drops value on an almost weekly occurrence.

[NewWorldOrder]

I am just amazed that people buy new comics.

 

I gave up last year when I realized that putting money into modern books is a complete waste of time and money.

 

I think the way to go is to wait to hear a particular story line was actually well done and buy the trade.

 

That is exactly what I have doing with all the major story arcs. For example I am waiting for Green Lantern: Blackest Night to come out on hard cover then I will buy that at a comics book show for No tax and maybe under cover price.

 

Another example is I just bought all the Brubaker Caps/DD Omnibuses, so much easier.

 

Omnibuses are my best friend and will be the only way I read new books.

 

[FlyingDonut]

I am just amazed that people buy new comics.

 

I gave up last year when I realized that putting money into modern books is a complete waste of time and money.

 

I think the way to go is to wait to hear a particular story line was actually well done and buy the trade.

 

That is exactly what I have doing with all the major story arcs. For example I am waiting for Green Lantern: Blackest Night to come out on hard cover then I will buy that at a comics book show for No tax and maybe under cover price.

 

Another example is I just bought all the Brubaker Caps/DD Omnibuses, so much easier.

 

Omnibuses are my best friend and will be the only way I read new books.

 

You do know, of course, that if nobody buys the pamphlets there won't be any trades.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I had a minor stroke when I was a kid

 

Ohhhhhhhhh......

 

I see.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I can't WAIT for the day when I can FINALLY buy Ultimate Spiderman #1 for $10...

 

[NewWorldOrder]

I am just amazed that people buy new comics.

 

I gave up last year when I realized that putting money into modern books is a complete waste of time and money.

 

I think the way to go is to wait to hear a particular story line was actually well done and buy the trade.

 

That is exactly what I have doing with all the major story arcs. For example I am waiting for Green Lantern: Blackest Night to come out on hard cover then I will buy that at a comics book show for No tax and maybe under cover price.

 

Another example is I just bought all the Brubaker Caps/DD Omnibuses, so much easier.

 

Omnibuses are my best friend and will be the only way I read new books.

 

You do know, of course, that if nobody buys the pamphlets there won't be any trades.

 

Of course, but you do know eventually it will just be trades anyway right?

 

IMO new issues are not even the main reason why little kids know who these characters are anymore.

 

Whether its trades only or online comics it doesn't matter because sooner or later weekly new paper issues will be out of business.

 

Hell they should be now cause at $2.99 to $3.99 that is a disgrace and outrageous to pay for a book you read in 5 minutes.

 

I do love how people think with out new issues then the hobby's back issues will suffer greatly. That can't be any further from the true.

 

It will have relativity zero effect on the back issue market.

[Davenport]

 

You do know, of course, that if nobody buys the pamphlets there won't be any trades.

Is there any reason why they couldn't just publish thick graphic novels six or eight times a year instead of monthlies?

 

"Collected volume" or "complete season", the trend seems to be toward waiting for whole storylines instead of suffering through disjointed chapters. It's the growing "On Demand" phenomenon and it's slowly changing old consumption habits. The avalanche of pop-culture hitting today's market allows buyers to be both selective and patient.

 

Waiting no longer means starving with so much to enjoy.

[mschmidt]

I am just amazed that people buy new comics.

 

I gave up last year when I realized that putting money into modern books is a complete waste of time and money.

 

I think the way to go is to wait to hear a particular story line was actually well done and buy the trade.

 

That is exactly what I have doing with all the major story arcs. For example I am waiting for Green Lantern: Blackest Night to come out on hard cover then I will buy that at a comics book show for No tax and maybe under cover price.

 

Another example is I just bought all the Brubaker Caps/DD Omnibuses, so much easier.

 

Omnibuses are my best friend and will be the only way I read new books.

 

Which is really no different than waiting for a movie to come out on DVD before seeing it.

 

Some of us actually like seeing movies in the theatre - and some of us enjoy reading comic books on a weekly/monthly basis. There's nothing "amazing" about that, really.