Future of Comic Book Collecting

[Logan510]

not so mid or so 80's through 1994 or so. the circulation #s were pretty decent then.

 

of course, in the 70's the issue was whether they could survive on 200K circulation (at least for most marvels), though DCs were lower.

 

Don't worry Blob, this guy is ether senile or he was born in a remote part of the Ozark mountains, as this "comics were always dying in my lifetime" argument is ludicrous. To say that unit sales of 350K-500K for the hot-selling books is "dying" makes me wonder what this guy's agenda is.

 

And he already admitted the first comic he ever bought was Star Wars 26 or something. WTF?

 

 

 

Is this really called for? I was making my argument without personal attacks, it would be nice if you could discuss in kind. I read back through this thread and see you have no problem making references to your experiences, but somehow mine are to be dismissed and ridiculed? Grow up.

 

 

 

 

Not to speak for him, but I'm guessing he was saying you don't know what you're talking about. But I don't imagine you'd like that no matter how he put it.

 

Actually, I don't mind disagreeing with anyone, as long as it stays civil. I get that my opinion on the industry is different than others, but I'm looking at it from a reader/collectors point of view, not as someone publishing the comics. I thought I made that pretty clear in all my posts.

 

In either case, I thought it would be refreshing to offer a different opinion on things, versus the "sky is falling" argument. I can make that argument too, but I'd rather remain optimistic about my hobby. Life is too short otherwise.

 

I don't think it's a "sky is falling" argument. It's a realistic viewpoint and if things don't get better it will not be a good thing for us as readers. I don't want comics to die or go away at all...but I refuse to put on the rose colored glasses and not see what's going on in the business.

[the blob]

not so mid or so 80's through 1994 or so. the circulation #s were pretty decent then.

 

of course, in the 70's the issue was whether they could survive on 200K circulation (at least for most marvels), though DCs were lower.

 

Don't worry Blob, this guy is ether senile or he was born in a remote part of the Ozark mountains, as this "comics were always dying in my lifetime" argument is ludicrous. To say that unit sales of 350K-500K for the hot-selling books is "dying" makes me wonder what this guy's agenda is.

 

And he already admitted the first comic he ever bought was Star Wars 26 or something. WTF?

 

 

Is this really called for? I was making my argument without personal attacks, it would be nice if you could discuss in kind. I read back through this thread and see you have no problem making references to your experiences, but somehow mine are to be dismissed and ridiculed? Grow up.

 

 

This gives interesting #s for Spidey:

 

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/amazingspiderman.html

 

ASM averaged 280K PAID circulation in 1977. Roughly the same as it has for most of the 70's before that. The comic industry might have been in trouble for a variety of reasons, part of which may have been the crazy inflation of the time and them only being able to raise cover prices bit by bit to deal with it. Also, when you look at the huge number of returns in the late 70's into the 80's you can see that sales at the newstand were an absolute disaster. 50%+ of the run was getting returned. when you factor in that comic shops could not return books, the return rates at newstands might have been 80%+ as the direct market, by the early 80's, was a big chunk of the market (at least judging by back issues on ebay if you compare direct vs. newstand editions). Funny thing is, check out the subscription sales in 1984 .... they're almost as much as current circulation #s! So the numbers, on a popular title, do not back up any notion that the industry was on the brink of death. 250-300K circulation is just fine, particular into the later 80's when there were far fewer returns.

 

Maybe Star Wars 1 helped comic shops get their footing and help the transition to comic shops from newstands, but Peter Parker 1 had just come out a bit earlier and that was a huge book #s wise ... I have a tough time believing that wasn't over 500K copies given how saturated the market was with extra copies for so long, so marvel at least had been pulling down some loot in '77. And Marvel in the following months had a lot of # 1s that sold a ton of copies (even if the series ultimately died within 6 - 12 issues). DC was going down the tubes fast, that's true, and Marvel did cancel a lot of titles from 77 - 79, though they replaced them with a lot too. Seems that they didn't want to mess around with titles that had 90-100K in sales. I guess that's unsustainable with 35 cent cover prices.

 

 

 

Like-wise, Iron Man, despite being a B-list Marvel title at the time, also had healthy sales consistently in the 180-200K range in the 80's and up until 1994:

 

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/ironman.html

 

Likewise, Warren's vampirella was a steady seller in the 90K from the 70's through the 80's:

 

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/Vampirella.html

 

It dipped in 1982 and was cancelled, but was still around 70K (and a whopping $2.50 cover price! --- which means its dollar #s were roughly the same as ASM)...though the last issue was supposedly short-printed...

 

True, the DC titles plummeted (with a few blips) steadily in the 70's and 80's until 1987 or so. Spiderwoman (cancelled by Marvel) had roughly the same #s as Batman in 1982!

 

(Thanks to the Comic Chron folks for the info...I'd love to see more! Like what B-List titles like Thor and Captain America were doing and A/B listers like Hulk, the precipitous rise of X-Men, etc.)

 

 

[the blob]

"We'll have to agree to disagree here. My access to back issues and supplies has greatly increased because of the Internet. Like I said, just about any back issue I want is now readily available whereas that simply was not the case 15 years ago. No LCS can come close to what is available on the Internet."

 

It would, however, be a shame to dump your perfectly good local shop (if you have one) for all purporses and go solely online. My LCS will order anything I want, has a file discount, etc. I don't have a file with them (don't order enough to justify it), but they will always set aside books for me (because I buy a lot of stuff otherwise), which is nice if I have some advance notice the day before new comics come in that something might be hot or whatever.

 

 

My LCS did not offer a discount. The year that the 12 Star Wars 30th Anniversary HC books were released, I dutifully bought every copy from the LCS for full price. I had a comic box, but also loved to browse the shelf for comics since I like to buy the oddball comic. Unfortunately, unless it was a Marvel (and sometimes DC), there was not much to browse. Shortly after buying the 12 HCs, I realized I could have been getting a decent discount online for these HCs (from information I learned here on these boards) and made a few "practice" orders with DBCS. I was pleased with the condition and handling of the comics. That, along with the deep discount, prompted me to close my comic box and switch completely to getting my comics from an online retailer. The discount they offer allows me to try out different independents that I normally would not have.

 

If my LCS offered a discount, I doubt I would have made the switch.

 

As for back issues, unless you are there on a half price sale 3-4 times a year, this same LCS overprices their back issues by quite a bit. (Heck, they sometime price new comics over cover when there is a demand for the comic.) New comics hitting the back issues bin are immediately priced a buck or more over cover. Variants were always priced according to allocation, so there really wasn't an incentive to buy back issues at the LCS. They do not have a large stock of back issues either.

 

I do go to the LCS to buy supplies, the occasional comic, and to talk with other readers. I make the trips mostly for my two kids so they can pick out comics for themselves.

 

Obviously it depends on the situation. If they're not making the choice easier for you, then there's no reason to patronize them too much. I live in a hyper competetive market (NYC), so no shop can take anything for granted.

 

I am fond of my main LCS, but with 33-40% off Borders coupons I buy my TPBs there unless the shop has them at half price or less (which they don't for WD). The shop still winds up getting $50-$100 a week from me on other stuff.

[Random]

Damn I just laid out some money for a 30 year old book that almost no one cares about. Can I get a refund? Then when everyone tosses them out I can get them way cheaper on ebay... Still waiting for that day.

[the blob]

I do think they could raise numbers if they lowered the price to $2 and packaged the comics in a protective way for the newstand (like in a sealed clear poly with a stiff backing board --- the board could even be some sort of promotional item or something) so that the comics could survive on the rack for more than a month.

 

And to get these in all sorts of venues (like they used to be) Marvel or DC could have routes or whatever and leave it up to individual entrepenours to hustle down potential sales locations, stock the shelves, take orders, etc. With so many people looking for their "own" business, this could be ideal.

 

seriously, if there is money for a guy to have a route selling 25 - 75 cent snack cake items to all the various bodegas and convenience stores out there, there could be money here.

 

problem is, the first few months as many places will not want to pay for anything upfront, some sort of returns (after a year?) might be required, but if they're packaged, damage will be less of an issue.

 

just thinking, i had a comic vending machine idea, but nobody here thought it was particularly brilliant.

[the blob]

Damn I just laid out some money for a 30 year old book that almost no one cares about. Can I get a refund? Then when everyone tosses them out I can get them way cheaper on ebay... Still waiting for that day.

 

?

[NewWorldOrder]

Well the sheep have been calling for the comic book form medium format to be coming to close since 1993.

 

I can't wait till comic books officially go exclusively to TPB or online only download format so all the dopes out there will be like, "see I told you."

 

As a 12 year old I could see that coming, so please people stopping saying you are calling this to happen because of course it will.

 

You are not predicting anything a common sense person already knows.

 

This could happen next year or 20 years from now, so who knows and who cares.

 

The written medium is now, but one aspect of getting little Jimmy to know who Spider-man is which should be obvious.

 

I don't know about you but for anyone in this hobby a market crash (or honestly more like market corrections) is pretty easy to see coming. If you don't know which kind of books are long term stable versus short term easy money vs long term downward value then you may need to better educate yourself.

 

Here is a hint books like HULK 181, GSX 1, ASM 129 are books that have a downward tend. Doesn't mean they are not important, desirable, or will go down to $10.00 price levels, but every year for at least the next 5-10 years will be going downward slightly.

 

It would be nice if Mr. Overstreet would get on the ball when it comes to most books from 1965 to current.

 

 

[the blob]

Here is a hint books like HULK 181, GSX 1, ASM 129 are books that have a downward tend. Doesn't mean they are not important, desirable, or will go down to $10.00 price levels, but every year for at least the next 5-10 years will be going downward slightly.

-----------------

 

Which is exactly what I was thinking when I unloaded nice copies of these in 1994 or so.....

[NewWorldOrder]

Here is a hint books like HULK 181, GSX 1, ASM 129 are books that have a downward tend. Doesn't mean they are not important, desirable, or will go down to $10.00 price levels, but every year for at least the next 5-10 years will be going downward slightly.

-----------------

 

Which is exactly what I was thinking when I unloaded nice copies of these in 1994 or so.....

 

Well the difference was back then no internet or CGC, basically in the dark about how many HG examples were really out there. If you sold them (assuming they were HG) back in the early days of CGC or even 4 years ago you would have done fairly well.

[NewWorldOrder]

The only thing I wonder which I feel is an unknown variable going forward to the vintage comic book market would be.......

What would happen to vintage comic books if CGC ever goes out of business?

 

How does that effect HG big ticket books already slabbed in a holder in which the company no longer is a variable company any more.

 

What happens if books need to be reholdered, but there is no company to perform that service?

[Random]

Waiting for the demise.

[the blob]

i wouldn't worry about it too much. heritage owns CGC. at worst they'll have "someone" to do this, even if they have to move the operations to texas for the sake of efficiency.

[NewWorldOrder]

i wouldn't worry about it too much. heritage owns CGC. at worst they'll have "someone" to do this, even if they have to move the operations to texas for the sake of efficiency.

 

I thinking about starting a new thread.

 

Talking about it on the phone right now about to my boardie friend.

[PBU-migration]

(Thanks to the Comic Chron folks for the info...I'd love to see more! Like what B-List titles like Thor and Captain America were doing and A/B listers like Hulk, the precipitous rise of X-Men, etc.)

 

Buy a copy of CBG's Standard Catalog. It's got all of JJM's info that hasn't made it onto the site yet.

[the blob]

buy something? is that something i can find in a 50 cent box?

 

and anyway, how would i cut and paste it and drop it into threads like i actually know stuff?

[rodan57]

The only thing I wonder which I feel is an unknown variable going forward to the vintage comic book market would be.......

What would happen to vintage comic books if CGC ever goes out of business?

 

How does that effect HG big ticket books already slabbed in a holder in which the company no longer is a variable company any more.

 

What happens if books need to be reholdered, but there is no company to perform that service?

 

It won't matter if robots rule the Earth.

[batman_fan]

When I was young in the 1970s, myself and all my friends read comics. Most of us collected as well. My son is the same age I was back then and he has NO interest in comics. Regardless of how I try he just doesnt care about them. Give him an action figure or video game with comic characters and he is in the zone, but not the print material. None of his friends read comics either. I see it as a very different world that does not look too good for printed comics.

[Prince Namor]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Direct Market pretty much saved the comic industry because newsstands kept making less and less space for comics, which had a much much lower profit margin than magazines at the time.

Now LCS's depend so much on weekly new issue sales, which get chipped away at by online discount services.

They have very mediocre if ANY back issues for sale (how do you manage a proper inventory of 70 years of comics?), and have seemingly conceded the market to eBay/the Internet.

On top of that, some continue to play this speculation game,

 

It seems to me, this idea of making comics WILL continue, be it in downloads or tpb's or whatever, but the market is adjusting itself to how it's going to work.

 

Are we going to lose readers in the next 5, 10, 20 years? Probably.

Book sales are down too.

 

The one advantage that comics has is that it is an art form with a unique type of individual that still loves to do it.

[ComicConnoisseur]

.

 

I am impressed with Buffy though, it sells like a big marvel or DC title. Who would have thunk it?

I am impressed as well Blob as Buffy is the number one best selling non-DC/MARVEL comicbook

If you look at the current sales figures Buffy outsells Deadpool,FF and Detective Comics month after month but still it has lost sales as well.

Let`s look at some non-Marvel/DC sales figures thanks to icv2.com.

Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Dark Horse)

10/2007: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #7 - 94,144

10/2010: Buffy the Vampire Slayer #37 - 43,021

The Walking Dead (Image)

10/2005: The Walking Dead #22 - 17,634

10/2010: The Walking Dead #78 - 27,947

Conan the Cimmerian (Dark Horse)

10/2005: Conan #21 - 34,232

10/2010: The Cimmerian #24 - 15,490

 

I am really surprised at how low the sales of the Jim Shooter Valiant/Gold Key books are.

 

Turok Son of Stone (Dark Horse)

10/2010: Turok Son of Stone #1 - 12,607

Magnus Robot Fighter (Dark Horse

10/2010: Magnus Robot Fighter #2 - 11,168

Doctor Solar Man of the Atom (Dark Horse)

Doctor Solar Man of the Atom #3 - 10,115

[PBU-migration]

Does icv2.com use the same sales numbers as Diamond/CBG/Comichron?