Future of Comic Book Collecting

[rjrjr]

Why are you clinging to the local comic shop (LCS) as if it is the only choice you have? I switched to an online retailer (DCBS) and have no problem getting the independent titles I want. There is so many titles available that I would never have seen or heard about if I was shopping at the LCS exclusively. I cannot buy everything I'm interested in reading and I don't even buy superhero titles from the big two. An added bonus to switching to mail order is the deep discounts. If the local comic shop disappears, good riddance! Serves them right for just stocking and pushing the same old Marvel and DC titles, none of which I am interested in. Alternatively, you can buy your big two books at the local comic shop and your independents from one of the online retailers if you feel you need to support your LCS.

 

I disagree. I strongly encourage people to support their local comic shop. If LCS close due to lack of support, the access of comic fans to back issues and supplies will decrease dramatically. LCS also provide a very good overview of what's available or happening in the comic book industry. Online is a far from adequate substitute for the products/services of the local shop.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree here. My access to back issues and supplies has greatly increased because of the Internet. Like I said, just about any back issue I want is now readily available whereas that simply was not the case 15 years ago. No LCS can come close to what is available on the Internet.

 

 

So, I'll ask this question. Is the industry really hurting, or is the

industry just changing? All of the arguments I'm reading is because people are clinging to the old distribution methods (brick and mortar convenient stores not carry comics appears to be everyone's big complaint) and the dwindling of brick and mortar LCSs. We may have lost the convenient store distribution (what, over 20 years ago?) and we may now lose some brink and mortar specialty stores, but there are ample online retailers willing to step in and cater to your comic needs.

 

The industry is indeed changing, but not in a positive way. Comic characters became popular icons because comics were not only in the face of every youngster at every corner store, but were priced affordably.But the indusry has now become more and more focused on the adult collector with the deeper pockets. This is not a good thing because without new fans, i.e. kids, the industry will slowly atrophy. I can't believe that movies and licensing by themselves will be enough to keep the industry healthy. Movies and licensing are only valuable if the characters themselves are popular and thus marketable in their own right. That marketability can only be measured by unit comic sales.

 

 

Understand, comics have not been in the face of youngsters at every corner store for most of my 40+ years. Yet, here I am, reading and collecting comics. This is not some new phenomena that just occurred. The industry has been in this state for 30-35 years.

 

Yet, I image most kids know who the X-Men, Iron Man, Spiderman, Batman, Superman, etc. are. How could they not, when they are in the movies, on cartoons, in video games, on cereal boxes, at the toy store, on t-shirts, and on kids meals at fast food restaurants. Basically, the characters are in their face in every possible way. And comics are more accessible now to those who are interested in reading them than ever before.

 

As an aside, my 12 year old son reads comics. Guess which comics? Not the superhero comics (he likes the movies and such, but has no interest in reading about them for whatever reason, despite many attempts over the years by me to get him interested), but he reads Mad, Simpsons, and Halo comics. Most of his time is spent playing video games with his friends or reading books (Percy Jackson, Harry Potter, etc.) Maybe, just maybe, today's generation of kids are just not interested in the superhero comics like we were. Maybe this is due to the content, but it more likely has to do with him having more choices for what to read and do than we did when we were younger. I know if some of the science fiction and horror titles I read now were available when I was younger, I wouldn't have bought as many superhero titles as I did back then.

 

Again, lamenting about why kids don't read comics is silly. Even if comics were written for them, available for FREE, and hand delivered to their house, they have other choices that are more exciting to them. Enjoy the fact that there are more choices today for your comic interests than at any time in the past. And you also have unprecedented access to older issues than at any time in the past. This is a great time to be a reader/collector.

[the blob]

"We'll have to agree to disagree here. My access to back issues and supplies has greatly increased because of the Internet. Like I said, just about any back issue I want is now readily available whereas that simply was not the case 15 years ago. No LCS can come close to what is available on the Internet."

 

It would, however, be a shame to dump your perfectly good local shop (if you have one) for all purporses and go solely online. My LCS will order anything I want, has a file discount, etc. I don't have a file with them (don't order enough to justify it), but they will always set aside books for me (because I buy a lot of stuff otherwise), which is nice if I have some advance notice the day before new comics come in that something might be hot or whatever.

 

 

[joe_collector]

I gotta ask, if comic publishing is in such bad shape, why does Marvel and DC continue to publish?:

 

What rock have you been living under?

 

MOVIE LICENSING

 

Hard copy funny books are a promotional expense now, not a viable business model going forward. Comics are there to provide the studios with a "built-in audience" argument, and some publishers have launched titles JUST for that reason alone, then canceled them if the studio doesn't bite.

[joe_collector]

Understand, comics have not been in the face of youngsters at every corner store for most of my 40+ years. Yet, here I am, reading and collecting comics. This is not some new phenomena that just occurred. The industry has been in this state for 30-35 years.

 

Please do not spout BS like this as if "your experience" (on whatever planet that is) is indicative of every city/country in the world.

 

When I was growing up, comics and comic characters were everywhere. All the corner stores stocked them, there were multi-packs in all the book stores and department stores I frequented, and I also was able to buy mini-TPBs of ASM, FF, Conan, Hulk, CA, etc., puzzle books, the Marvel Fireside books, etc. all over the place as well.

 

And the day I brought Origins of Marvel Comics to school, I was God and every single kid wanted to take a look at it.

[Wally's Comics]

spoken like a true Comic Investor!

 

 

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

not so mid or so 80's through 1994 or so. the circulation #s were pretty decent then.

 

of course, in the 70's the issue was whether they could survive on 200K circulation (at least for most marvels), though DCs were lower.

 

Don't worry Blob, this guy is ether senile or he was born in a remote part of the Ozark mountains, as this "comics were always dying in my lifetime" argument is ludicrous. To say that unit sales of 350K-500K for the hot-selling books is "dying" makes me wonder what this guy's agenda is.

 

And he already admitted the first comic he ever bought was Star Wars 26 or something. WTF?

[thehumantorch]

Comic characters are everywhere. T-shirts, movies, TPBs, merchandising of

all types. They aren't going anywhere but comics as we know them are dying

a slow death.

 

Young kids don't read them and they are the customers of the future.

TPBs are the recent future and on-line/electronic format comics and

movies are the ultimate future.

 

There will always be back issue collectors as long as the characters

are seen by the public. How many people in the future make the leap

from movies, merchandising, TPB and on-line venues is anyone's guess.

 

I know instinctively that comic sales are way down. More importantly,

I know that the number of people reading comics is way way down. By

releasing many different Spiderman titles a month rather than just one

Marvel manages to maximize sales from their small customer base.

[COI]

Understand, comics have not been in the face of youngsters at every corner store for most of my 40+ years. Yet, here I am, reading and collecting comics. This is not some new phenomena that just occurred.

 

Nope. I started buying comics at my corner store, and local grocery store, and I'm 29. I didn't even know stores that exclusively sold comics existed in my first couple of years as a young reader.

[Hepcat]

Here's another word in defence of comic shops. I at least semi-actively bought comics in the 1959-65 period while I was growing up in the mid-sized city of London, Ontario. My focus was on precisely the super hero kind in the 1961-64 period after which I moved on to Mad, Drag Cartoons, Hot Rod Cartoons, Creepy and Eerie magazines. It was not until I moved to Toronto in 1977 that I discovered big city comic shops. It was these, particularly Dragon Lady and Silver Snail, that awakened a reinterest in comics within me and prompted me to start reamassing the comics of my childhood. I've never looked back. But without the comic shops to rekindle my enthusiasm for the art form, I probably would never have started.

 

And I think it's fair to say that your standard LCS is a treasure trove of wonders to any ten year old inclined toward the world of fantasy literature.

 

Maybe, just maybe, today's generation of kids are just not interested in the superhero comics like we were. Maybe this is due to the content, but it more likely has to do with him having more choices for what to read and do than we did when we were younger.

 

It may very well be that comics don't offer the value proposition to young readers that they did at one time. Not only have prices increased exponentially, but the comics themselves offer less reading. How long does it take to read through your standard DC or Marvel comic these days? Not too much of a story in each, is there? Now pull out a DC comic from 1961 with all those additional panels per page filled with word balloons. Now go on to the text page, the letters to the editor page, the science info page, the friendly advice to kids page, etc. And don't forget the ads, from house ads advertising the new Brave & the Bold with Hawkman or Sea Devils #2 to those wonderful ads for Sea Monkeys, penny flats of the Civil War or Roman soldiers, skull rings, X-Ray specs so you can ogle your teacher's titties, "You too can be tough" books on jiu-jitsu, courses on how you can add pounds of lean muscle to your skinny ten year old frame so you can be the toughest kid on the block, a contest for naming the new "Big Daddy" Roth creation and another one for customizing those fabulous Aurora monster kits!,Finally let's not forget that white bear extolling the merits of Tootsie Rolls! Great stuff for your typical ten year old! There's nothing in modern comics that compares. A quick flip and you're done with the things these days.

 

[Larryw7]

Great post! :thumbsup:

[the blob]

Here's another word in defence of comic shops. I at least semi-actively bought comics in the 1959-65 period while I was growing up in the mid-sized city of London, Ontario. My focus was on precisely the super hero kind in the 1961-64 period after which I moved on to Mad, Drag Cartoons, Hot Rod Cartoons, Creepy and Eerie magazines. It was not until I moved to Toronto in 1977 that I discovered big city comic shops. It was these, particularly Dragon Lady and Silver Snail, that awakened a reinterest in comics within me and prompted me to start reamassing the comics of my childhood. I've never looked back. But without the comic shops to rekindle my enthusiasm for the art form, I probably would never have started.

 

And I think it's fair to say that your standard LCS is a treasure trove of wonders to any ten year old inclined toward the world of fantasy literature.

 

Maybe, just maybe, today's generation of kids are just not interested in the superhero comics like we were. Maybe this is due to the content, but it more likely has to do with him having more choices for what to read and do than we did when we were younger.

 

It may very well be that comics don't offer the value proposition to young readers that they did at one time. Not only have prices increased exponentially, but the comics themselves offer less reading. How long does it take to read through your standard DC or Marvel comic these days? Not too much of a story in each, is there? Now pull out a DC comic from 1961 with all those additional panels per page filled with word balloons. Now go on to the text page, the letters to the editor page, the science info page, the friendly advice to kids page, etc. And don't forget the ads, from house ads advertising the new Brave & the Bold with Hawkman or Sea Devils #2 to those wonderful ads for Sea Monkeys, penny flats of the Civil War or Roman soldiers, skull rings, X-Ray specs so you can ogle your teacher's titties, "You too can be tough" books on jiu-jitsu, courses on how you can add pounds of lean muscle to your skinny ten year old frame so you can be the toughest kid on the block, a contest for naming the new "Big Daddy" Roth creation and another one for customizing those fabulous Aurora monster kits!,Finally let's not forget that white bear extolling the merits of Tootsie Rolls! Great stuff for your typical ten year old! There's nothing in modern comics that compares. A quick flip and you're done with the things these days.

 

 

some are actually pretty wordy. i read a recent issue of scooby doo with my son and I was frigging exhausted (of course, doing separate shaggy, scooby, velma, daphne and fred voices ... as well as the monster .. was what was really tiring)

[the blob]

I am showing there has been no growth with new readers even with all the movie hype, Sure the target market of over 35 is still hanging on but if these sale results continue the course we can expect in five years the average Marvel selling under 30,000 copies a month.

--------

 

this is almost a given with these titles i think. if new kids are coming in they are buying the kids "adventures" comics or cartoon netwok comics. do they eventually read the regular stuff when they get older? that remains to be seen. what are the sales #s on the kids comics, like 15-25,000? they aren't in the top 500 list.

 

 

wow, it looks like the kids stuff, tiny titans, marvel adventures, scooby, etc. are selling a whopping 3,000-8,000 copies a month, at least in the direct market, though i think they may do better in the newstand/walmart/borders scenario than at comic shops.

[Prince Namor]

Here's another word in defence of comic shops. I at least semi-actively bought comics in the 1959-65 period while I was growing up in the mid-sized city of London, Ontario. My focus was on precisely the super hero kind in the 1961-64 period after which I moved on to Mad, Drag Cartoons, Hot Rod Cartoons, Creepy and Eerie magazines. It was not until I moved to Toronto in 1977 that I discovered big city comic shops. It was these, particularly Dragon Lady and Silver Snail, that awakened a reinterest in comics within me and prompted me to start reamassing the comics of my childhood. I've never looked back. But without the comic shops to rekindle my enthusiasm for the art form, I probably would never have started.

 

And I think it's fair to say that your standard LCS is a treasure trove of wonders to any ten year old inclined toward the world of fantasy literature.

 

Maybe, just maybe, today's generation of kids are just not interested in the superhero comics like we were. Maybe this is due to the content, but it more likely has to do with him having more choices for what to read and do than we did when we were younger.

 

It may very well be that comics don't offer the value proposition to young readers that they did at one time. Not only have prices increased exponentially, but the comics themselves offer less reading. How long does it take to read through your standard DC or Marvel comic these days? Not too much of a story in each, is there? Now pull out a DC comic from 1961 with all those additional panels per page filled with word balloons. Now go on to the text page, the letters to the editor page, the science info page, the friendly advice to kids page, etc. And don't forget the ads, from house ads advertising the new Brave & the Bold with Hawkman or Sea Devils #2 to those wonderful ads for Sea Monkeys, penny flats of the Civil War or Roman soldiers, skull rings, X-Ray specs so you can ogle your teacher's titties, "You too can be tough" books on jiu-jitsu, courses on how you can add pounds of lean muscle to your skinny ten year old frame so you can be the toughest kid on the block, a contest for naming the new "Big Daddy" Roth creation and another one for customizing those fabulous Aurora monster kits!,Finally let's not forget that white bear extolling the merits of Tootsie Rolls! Great stuff for your typical ten year old! There's nothing in modern comics that compares. A quick flip and you're done with the things these days.

 

 

some are actually pretty wordy. i read a recent issue of scooby doo with my son and I was frigging exhausted (of course, doing separate shaggy, scooby, velma, daphne and fred voices ... as well as the monster .. was what was really tiring)

 

[rjrjr]

I am showing there has been no growth with new readers even with all the movie hype, Sure the target market of over 35 is still hanging on but if these sale results continue the course we can expect in five years the average Marvel selling under 30,000 copies a month.

--------

 

this is almost a given with these titles i think. if new kids are coming in they are buying the kids "adventures" comics or cartoon netwok comics. do they eventually read the regular stuff when they get older? that remains to be seen. what are the sales #s on the kids comics, like 15-25,000? they aren't in the top 500 list.

 

 

wow, it looks like the kids stuff, tiny titans, marvel adventures, scooby, etc. are selling a whopping 3,000-8,000 copies a month, at least in the direct market, though i think they may do better in the newstand/walmart/borders scenario than at comic shops.

 

 

I was going to add "and subscriptions too", but a glance through a recent tiny titans did not turn up a single page for a subscription.

 

[rjrjr]

not so mid or so 80's through 1994 or so. the circulation #s were pretty decent then.

 

of course, in the 70's the issue was whether they could survive on 200K circulation (at least for most marvels), though DCs were lower.

 

Don't worry Blob, this guy is ether senile or he was born in a remote part of the Ozark mountains, as this "comics were always dying in my lifetime" argument is ludicrous. To say that unit sales of 350K-500K for the hot-selling books is "dying" makes me wonder what this guy's agenda is.

 

And he already admitted the first comic he ever bought was Star Wars 26 or something. WTF?

 

 

 

Is this really called for? I was making my argument without personal attacks, it would be nice if you could discuss in kind. I read back through this thread and see you have no problem making references to your experiences, but somehow mine are to be dismissed and ridiculed? Grow up.

 

 

 

 

[Logan510]

not so mid or so 80's through 1994 or so. the circulation #s were pretty decent then.

 

of course, in the 70's the issue was whether they could survive on 200K circulation (at least for most marvels), though DCs were lower.

 

Don't worry Blob, this guy is ether senile or he was born in a remote part of the Ozark mountains, as this "comics were always dying in my lifetime" argument is ludicrous. To say that unit sales of 350K-500K for the hot-selling books is "dying" makes me wonder what this guy's agenda is.

 

And he already admitted the first comic he ever bought was Star Wars 26 or something. WTF?

 

 

 

Is this really called for? I was making my argument without personal attacks, it would be nice if you could discuss in kind. I read back through this thread and see you have no problem making references to your experiences, but somehow mine are to be dismissed and ridiculed? Grow up.

 

 

 

 

Not to speak for him, but I'm guessing he was saying you don't know what you're talking about. But I don't imagine you'd like that no matter how he put it.

[Hepcat]

I agree with rjrjr. I just use expressions such as the following when I totally disagree:

 

"You're wrong."

"Nonsense."

"Claptrap."

 

And then I proceed to state precisely why I disagree. That's all that's required. I prefer Gorgo to the whole Star Wars lot though....

 

[500Club]

not so mid or so 80's through 1994 or so. the circulation #s were pretty decent then.

 

of course, in the 70's the issue was whether they could survive on 200K circulation (at least for most marvels), though DCs were lower.

 

Don't worry Blob, this guy is ether senile or he was born in a remote part of the Ozark mountains, as this "comics were always dying in my lifetime" argument is ludicrous. To say that unit sales of 350K-500K for the hot-selling books is "dying" makes me wonder what this guy's agenda is.

 

And he already admitted the first comic he ever bought was Star Wars 26 or something. WTF?

Is this really called for? I was making my argument without personal attacks, it would be nice if you could discuss in kind. I read back through this thread and see you have no problem making references to your experiences, but somehow mine are to be dismissed and ridiculed? Grow up.

 

Vince isn't exactly Dale Carnegie...

[rjrjr]

"We'll have to agree to disagree here. My access to back issues and supplies has greatly increased because of the Internet. Like I said, just about any back issue I want is now readily available whereas that simply was not the case 15 years ago. No LCS can come close to what is available on the Internet."

 

It would, however, be a shame to dump your perfectly good local shop (if you have one) for all purporses and go solely online. My LCS will order anything I want, has a file discount, etc. I don't have a file with them (don't order enough to justify it), but they will always set aside books for me (because I buy a lot of stuff otherwise), which is nice if I have some advance notice the day before new comics come in that something might be hot or whatever.

 

 

My LCS did not offer a discount. The year that the 12 Star Wars 30th Anniversary HC books were released, I dutifully bought every copy from the LCS for full price. I had a comic box, but also loved to browse the shelf for comics since I like to buy the oddball comic. Unfortunately, unless it was a Marvel (and sometimes DC), there was not much to browse. Shortly after buying the 12 HCs, I realized I could have been getting a decent discount online for these HCs (from information I learned here on these boards) and made a few "practice" orders with DBCS. I was pleased with the condition and handling of the comics. That, along with the deep discount, prompted me to close my comic box and switch completely to getting my comics from an online retailer. The discount they offer allows me to try out different independents that I normally would not have.

 

If my LCS offered a discount, I doubt I would have made the switch.

 

As for back issues, unless you are there on a half price sale 3-4 times a year, this same LCS overprices their back issues by quite a bit. (Heck, they sometime price new comics over cover when there is a demand for the comic.) New comics hitting the back issues bin are immediately priced a buck or more over cover. Variants were always priced according to allocation, so there really wasn't an incentive to buy back issues at the LCS. They do not have a large stock of back issues either.

 

I do go to the LCS to buy supplies, the occasional comic, and to talk with other readers. I make the trips mostly for my two kids so they can pick out comics for themselves.

[rjrjr]

not so mid or so 80's through 1994 or so. the circulation #s were pretty decent then.

 

of course, in the 70's the issue was whether they could survive on 200K circulation (at least for most marvels), though DCs were lower.

 

Don't worry Blob, this guy is ether senile or he was born in a remote part of the Ozark mountains, as this "comics were always dying in my lifetime" argument is ludicrous. To say that unit sales of 350K-500K for the hot-selling books is "dying" makes me wonder what this guy's agenda is.

 

And he already admitted the first comic he ever bought was Star Wars 26 or something. WTF?

 

 

 

Is this really called for? I was making my argument without personal attacks, it would be nice if you could discuss in kind. I read back through this thread and see you have no problem making references to your experiences, but somehow mine are to be dismissed and ridiculed? Grow up.

 

 

 

 

Not to speak for him, but I'm guessing he was saying you don't know what you're talking about. But I don't imagine you'd like that no matter how he put it.

 

Actually, I don't mind disagreeing with anyone, as long as it stays civil. I get that my opinion on the industry is different than others, but I'm looking at it from a reader/collectors point of view, not as someone publishing the comics. I thought I made that pretty clear in all my posts.

 

In either case, I thought it would be refreshing to offer a different opinion on things, versus the "sky is falling" argument. I can make that argument too, but I'd rather remain optimistic about my hobby. Life is too short otherwise.