What do you think about comic book stores who purposely overbook on varaints?

[RockMyAmadeus]

There will always be folks who want to have everything related to the books they collect.

We call them completionists. That's why the publishers continue to produce variants. It is another way to milk a few extra dollars out of an existing property. And obviously some speculate on the relative scarcity of those variant issues. Whether or not any individual variants will have value down the road is for the people who collect them to decide. I wish I had a crystal ball for that. But past history and my intuition tell me that, from an investment standpoint, you'd probably be better served buying other things.

But if you dig them buy away. And enjoy.

But please don't chastise a retailer because he/she is unable to deliver on a limited print variant issue. Blame the publisher. From a retail perspective the variant market is screwed up enough as it is.

 

"Completists."

 

Wait...wait a minute...you're chastising akanni because DCBS didn't hold his hand through the process...but where is the chastising for DCBS for not having THEIR hand held to make sure they ordered properly to ensure they would receive the correct number of products that they'd already received payment for?

 

And from a consumer perspective, taking money in advance and then not delivering the product...barring some unavoidable catastrophe....is usurious. The company gets to use that money as an interest free loan for the duration of the order; the very least they can do in return is provide the product that was ordered.

 

Consumers shouldn't have to "understand going in" that some products are difficult to obtain. That's the job of the retailer/wholesaler/distributor, to not make promises they may not be able to keep. Is it great if you have wise, knowledgable, understanding clientele? Oh, my goodness, YES! But is it the clientele's responsibility to understand YOUR end of the bargain? Nope.

 

If you take someone's money, in the form of an order, you should deliver the product, barring unforeseen catastrophe. If you take someone's money IN ADVANCE, you should doubly make sure the product is delivered.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Ignore MrBedrock, he is an . But that is just my opinion.

 

You got screwed. They promised you something and didn't deliver. You entered into a transaction you never would have if not for their assurance you would get the variants. They are 100% in the wrong and trying to stick you with a restocking fee is douchebaggery at it's finest.

 

If you paid via credit card I would call the credit card company and get the charge reversed.

Thanks for the kind words.

A question from one to another...

So if you go into a store with a list of things to get, but they are out of one of the items on your list, you refuse to buy anything from them?

 

If you promised a buyer something and then didn't deliver would you then charge them 25% of their money for your mistake?

 

I hope not.

This guy promised to buy a bunch of comics. The retailer was unable to deliver one. So the buyer reneged on all. Do you conduct your business that way?

 

I hope not.

 

Wait...wait a minute once again...

 

While I agree that PRE-ordering, or having a pull list, and then not buying the books that were specifically ordered for that customer is tacky, the hard reality of retail is that customers cancel orders and retailers are stuck with non-returnable product every single day. That's the reality of retail, which you know more than just about anyone.

 

But consumers rarely sign contracts for pre-ordering, and are not bound by anything other than their sense of obligation to buy the items they "order", especially if it's not a PRE-order.

 

The REAL issue...one which you and every other retailer should be fighting every single week...is the razor thin margin upon which you are forced to operate (and I KNOW how razor thin it is...nobody's getting rich selling new funny books. Not anymore.) You should be fighting Diamond's monopoly (excuse me, "monopoly") and revamping the now antiquated Direct Market system. I just got into a loud commiseration fest with my LCS owner last Wednesday about it, that something must be done about the draconian rules with which the publishers and Diamond fleece small retailers.

 

Starting with RETURNABLE books that don't sell, at a smaller discount (you know...like the kind that worked for 50+ years?) so that product is on the shelf, and you don't have to worry about under OR overordering. Losing sleep wondering whether you lost a good customer because you couldn't get that ONE book they wanted is beyond ridiculous. Losing sleep because you over-ordered 10 copies of X-Reaming #376 that you can't sell is beyond ridiculous.

 

We could have this discussion for days. This is nothing new to you. I really, really, really wish I had any sort of influence in this industry. Such the changes I would make. Maybe I should just suck it up and form a panel at SDCC next year.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Ignore MrBedrock, he is an . But that is just my opinion.

 

You got screwed. They promised you something and didn't deliver. You entered into a transaction you never would have if not for their assurance you would get the variants. They are 100% in the wrong and trying to stick you with a restocking fee is douchebaggery at it's finest.

 

If you paid via credit card I would call the credit card company and get the charge reversed.

Thanks for the kind words.

A question from one to another...

So if you go into a store with a list of things to get, but they are out of one of the items on your list, you refuse to buy anything from them?

 

If you promised a buyer something and then didn't deliver would you then charge them 25% of their money for your mistake?

 

I hope not.

This guy promised to buy a bunch of comics. The retailer was unable to deliver one. So the buyer reneged on all. Do you conduct your business that way?

 

I hope not.

 

Wait...wait a minute once again...

 

While I agree that PRE-ordering, or having a pull list, and then not buying the books that were specifically ordered for that customer is tacky, the hard reality of retail is that customers cancel orders and retailers are stuck with non-returnable product every single day. That's the reality of retail, which you know more than just about anyone.

 

But consumers rarely sign contracts for pre-ordering, and are not bound by anything other than their sense of obligation to buy the items they "order", especially if it's not a PRE-order.

 

The REAL issue...one which you and every other retailer should be fighting every single week...is the razor thin margin upon which you are forced to operate (and I KNOW how razor thin it is...nobody's getting rich selling new funny books. Not anymore.) You should be fighting Diamond's monopoly (excuse me, "monopoly") and revamping the now antiquated Direct Market system. I just got into a loud commiseration fest with my LCS owner last Wednesday about it, that something must be done about the draconian rules with which the publishers and Diamond fleece small retailers.

 

Starting with RETURNABLE books that don't sell, at a smaller discount (you know...like the kind that worked for 50+ years?) so that product is on the shelf, and you don't have to worry about under OR overordering. Losing sleep wondering whether you lost a good customer because you couldn't get that ONE book they wanted is beyond ridiculous. Losing sleep because you over-ordered 10 copies of X-Reaming #376 that you can't sell is beyond ridiculous.

 

We could have this discussion for days. This is nothing new to you. I really, really, really wish I had any sort of influence in this industry. Such the changes I would make. Maybe I should just suck it up and form a panel at SDCC next year.

 

In other words...the Direct Market was great, when books sold 200-500 copies a month, and a retailer only got "stuck" with 10-20 of them or so, and back issues still sold....

 

Now, when books sell 10-25 copies a month for a small retailer...even 1 unsold copy will hurt, and one fewer copy than demand will hurt....it's not so great.

 

[plasticide-migration]

I don't think they did it just to sit on your money for two months. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

They did, however, do it in the hopes of getting a larger order of these books.

 

Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. I've gotten some through them and NOT gotten some through them. Got my Neal Adams Batman variant. DIDN'T get my J Scott Campbell Black Cat.

 

The only way you can for SURE get one is to open a Diamond account yourself and order within the guidelines for the variants.

 

Other than that, you probably have scramble like the rest of us, or pay more and go through BeachBum's 9.8 service, to get exactly what you want. It's worth it if you want something specific; and he's as top notch of a guy to deal with as there is here.

 

 

Which, of course, is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Only in comics do collectors put up with such nonsense on a routine basis, cause they gotta have their fix. It's absurd.

 

If you order something, it should arrive, barring some huge disaster. If they can't be bothered to fill ALL their orders, they deserve to go out of business. If they can't be bothered to follow ordering rules to ensure their customers get what they want, they deserve to go out of business.

 

Is there a place for competency in this market...? Or will people just continue to get treated like crud for "the best price"...?

 

Insert an Allen Iverson clip here:

 

"I mean listen, we talkin bout variants. Not a real comic you can order from Previews. We talkin bout variants. I mean how silly is that? We talkin' bout variants. I know you expect it to be there, I know they're supposed to be 1 in 100. I know that, and I'm not shovin' it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything to some people. I know its important, I do. I honestly do. But we talkin' bout variants, man. What are we talkin' bout? Variants? We ain't talkin' bout the real comics, we talkin' bout variants, man. (crowd laughs) Man look, I hear you, its funny to me too. I mean, its strange, its strange to me too. But we talkin' bout variants man. We not even talkin' bout the real comics, the actual comics, the ones that matter. We talkin' bout variants."

[Prince Namor]

Rock My Amadeus: "Which, of course, is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Only in comics do collectors put up with such nonsense on a routine basis, cause they gotta have their fix. It's absurd.

 

If you order something, it should arrive, barring some huge disaster. If they can't be bothered to fill ALL their orders, they deserve to go out of business. If they can't be bothered to follow ordering rules to ensure their customers get what they want, they deserve to go out of business.

 

Is there a place for competency in this market...? Or will people just continue to get treated like crud for "the best price"...?"

 

I agree that it should work better than it does for the customer. But it doesn't. I can only offer up solutions available within the system in place. Personally, I have no better option for the amount of moderns and variants I buy monthly than DCBS. 40% off ( 75% off on a couple of select books) and 3 of the 4 variants I want a month for $6 to $10 each (or roughly $9 to $15 cheaper than a typical comic store. If I 100% MUST have a certain variant, I can pay someone MORE to make sure I get it. That's a drag, but I don't see it changing. And my overall savings using DCBS more than makes up for it. They ship faster than anyone else I've ever used also. Always get my Wednesdays books by Friday. I agree that it's not a perfect system. But what can we do?

[shortstack comics]

Wonder how ticked the OP would be if I told him I was getting 2 of the 8 TWD 75 variants that DCBservice got?

[Boozad]

Wonder how ticked the OP would be if I told him I was getting 2 of the 8 TWD 75 variants that DCBservice got?

 

Mortified.

[BeachBum]

Wonder how ticked the OP would be if I told him I was getting 2 of the 8 TWD 75 variants that DCBservice got?

 

Mortified.

 

That's funny since I have 2 also.

 

 

But seriously, I know a lot of stores that order "x" amount of the regular covers to get a certain amount of the variant covers for their regular customers and price accordingly to make sure they cover themselves in case they don't sell enough of the regular covers.

 

Now if DCBS was doing this they should have priced the retailer variant accordingly, so as to not come back and say we didn't order enough to get the variants.

 

I don't know what the ratio was (I think it was 1 in 50, or one per account, then an additional 1 per 50 ordered)

 

 

[the blob]

Did the OP have to order a certain # of regular books to be able to purchase these hard to get variants or did he not even have to order the other stuff?

 

If he did have to order other stuff to become eligible, I could see the irritation.

 

Plus, if they're sitting on his $50 for the 2 variants as store credit, I'd be homicidal. That's unclear from the post. probably illegal too.

 

I'll admit, I'm not a variant collector, but I'm not going to knock them. I bought my wife one of the True Blood variants and bought the 1:10 creepy variant off the rack (for cover price). I have lots of other variants out of the dollar box though. probably not more than 1:5 or 1:10s though, I'm not even sure. I can totally see SOME of these variants actually having a second life at some point after the initial dip in price after they're hot. Maybe it will take years. It'll probably have to relate to demand for the issue, like if, after the fact, it's a modern key. Heck, look how ASM 300 bounced back with a vengeance and how the valiants almost bounced back.

 

I will give Image credit though, they don't seem to overdo the variants, unlike Marvel which is really trying to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs by seemingly putting out a variant for every other issue. it's pointless.

[PrismaticSmoke]

Did the OP have to order a certain # of regular books to be able to purchase these hard to get variants or did he not even have to order the other stuff?

 

If he did have to order other stuff to become eligible, I could see the irritation.

 

Plus, if they're sitting on his $50 for the 2 variants as store credit, I'd be homicidal. That's unclear from the post. probably illegal too.

 

I'll admit, I'm not a variant collector, but I'm not going to knock them. I bought my wife one of the True Blood variants and bought the 1:10 creepy variant off the rack (for cover price). I have lots of other variants out of the dollar box though. probably not more than 1:5 or 1:10s though, I'm not even sure. I can totally see SOME of these variants actually having a second life at some point after the initial dip in price after they're hot. Maybe it will take years. It'll probably have to relate to demand for the issue, like if, after the fact, it's a modern key. Heck, look how ASM 300 bounced back with a vengeance and how the valiants almost bounced back.

 

I will give Image credit though, they don't seem to overdo the variants, unlike Marvel which is really trying to kill the goose that laid the golden eggs by seemingly putting out a variant for every other issue. it's pointless.

 

There is no requirement to order any books, you can order 1 book or 5000 books. DCBS is a pre-order service and not a brick and mortar store. your order about 3 months in advance and they bill your credit card about the middle of the month prior to your order submission.

 

I do not know how DCBS orders its variants but I never had a problem and if a retailer cannot get an item in, then it is what it is. The whining over the facts DCBS could not fulfill its order is just a little babyish. They informed him, gave him credit and instead of that sucks but I understand the OP got his panties in a bunch and canceled the whole order then cried that they want to charge him a 25% restock fee which is CLEARLY a policy. The fact they could not honor 1 item is not a valid reason to cancel, nor is it a valid reason to take it to the level of whining has we have here.

 

DCBS is a good retailer and I have had nothing but friendly, prompt service when I email them and order. I have even added issues to the order after they are released with no hassle while I am sure they are not perfect they are without a doubt a retailer I highly recommend for pre-ordering and vast savings.

[MrBedrock]

There will always be folks who want to have everything related to the books they collect.

We call them completionists. That's why the publishers continue to produce variants. It is another way to milk a few extra dollars out of an existing property. And obviously some speculate on the relative scarcity of those variant issues. Whether or not any individual variants will have value down the road is for the people who collect them to decide. I wish I had a crystal ball for that. But past history and my intuition tell me that, from an investment standpoint, you'd probably be better served buying other things.

But if you dig them buy away. And enjoy.

But please don't chastise a retailer because he/she is unable to deliver on a limited print variant issue. Blame the publisher. From a retail perspective the variant market is screwed up enough as it is.

 

"Completists."

 

Wait...wait a minute...you're chastising akanni because DCBS didn't hold his hand through the process...but where is the chastising for DCBS for not having THEIR hand held to make sure they ordered properly to ensure they would receive the correct number of products that they'd already received payment for?

 

And from a consumer perspective, taking money in advance and then not delivering the product...barring some unavoidable catastrophe....is usurious. The company gets to use that money as an interest free loan for the duration of the order; the very least they can do in return is provide the product that was ordered.

 

Consumers shouldn't have to "understand going in" that some products are difficult to obtain. That's the job of the retailer/wholesaler/distributor, to not make promises they may not be able to keep. Is it great if you have wise, knowledgable, understanding clientele? Oh, my goodness, YES! But is it the clientele's responsibility to understand YOUR end of the bargain? Nope.

 

If you take someone's money, in the form of an order, you should deliver the product, barring unforeseen catastrophe. If you take someone's money IN ADVANCE, you should doubly make sure the product is delivered.

You make some valid points. But in the context of this thread, and its original intent, I must say that I disagree with your conclusions.

Retailing is a two-way street, with agreements entered into by both consumer and retailer. In this case the consumer reneged on a much larger portion of his obligation than the retailer did. He said so himself.

[seanfingh]

Retailing is a two-way street, with agreements entered into by both consumer and retailer. In this case the consumer reneged on a much larger portion of his obligation than the retailer did. He said so himself.

 

This is all true. And I know this topic is near and dear to your heart, but you have to admit that DCBS f-ed up royally by letting people pre-order limited variants and then not having them. There are a ton of ways to avoid that problem, and they implemented exactly none of them, at least as far as i have heard.

[MrBedrock]

Retailing is a two-way street, with agreements entered into by both consumer and retailer. In this case the consumer reneged on a much larger portion of his obligation than the retailer did. He said so himself.

 

This is all true. And I know this topic is near and dear to your heart, but you have to admit that DCBS f-ed up royally by letting people pre-order limited variants and then not having them. There are a ton of ways to avoid that problem, and they implemented exactly none of them, at least as far as i have heard.

I do agree that they should have included some kind of statement in the pre-order language indemnifying themselves in the event that the product proved undeliverable from the publisher. But in my opinion that should be understood by any consumer.

 

My problem in addressing this issue is that by trying to express my understanding of the issues DCBS is dealing with some take it as a defense of their policies and of the system. I don't necessarily agree with all of their handling of this particular customer, though I understand why they have the policies in place that they do.

[seanfingh]

 

Well, I just know that the good retailers I support here in Ohio would never pull something like this. They are very clear about their variant policies. If a customer wants one, they pull it, price it based on their assessment of the market and the customer gets to say yea or nay based upon the condition of the book. No pre-selling or any other hijinks. It is fair to the collector and fair to the shop.

 

My final point is this. Support your brick and mortar comic shops whenever you can. Get a pull file and order from your LCS. If enough people go all internet, there aren't going to be any more LCS.' And then where will i go to be grunted at and smell BO? (I kid, I kid).

[MrBedrock]

I agree with the internet/brick and mortar sentiment (thumbs u

 

The variant thing is such an f-ed up deal that we don't even pull them for in store subscribers any longer. They are strictly a first-come first-served thing. If the publishers can't guarantee them on pre-orders why should I try to guarantee them for a subscriber. I would only be setting folks up for the same kind of disappointment. And there is no way I can avoid making someone upset when I don't get enough to make everyone happy. I don't want customers disappointed with my stores.

[DrWatson]

where will i go to be grunted at and smell BO?

The rodeo or county fair, whichever's more convenient. (thumbs u

[seanfingh]

 

That is how my non-pull file LCS does it. They just throw their hands up and fire them out there for whomever. It works pretty well, because all they ever have when I am in there are variants like Ender's Game and Angel that never get sold.

[bhhooks22]

That is how my non-pull file LCS does it. They just throw their hands up and fire them out there for whomever. It works pretty well, because all they ever have when I am in there are variants like Ender's Game and Angel that never get sold.

 

Possibly that's all they show you?

Mine gives me the VIP treatment...

[Flaming_Telepath]

That is how my non-pull file LCS does it. They just throw their hands up and fire them out there for whomever. It works pretty well, because all they ever have when I am in there are variants like Ender's Game and Angel that never get sold.

 

Possibly that's all they show you?

Mine gives me the VIP treatment...

 

You're confusing your LCS with the tanning salon.

[seanfingh]

That is how my non-pull file LCS does it. They just throw their hands up and fire them out there for whomever. It works pretty well, because all they ever have when I am in there are variants like Ender's Game and Angel that never get sold.

 

Possibly that's all they show you?

Mine gives me the VIP treatment...

 

You're confusing your LCS with the tanning salon.

 

I heard there was a chain of "Happy Ending Tan" salons that just opened up in Texas . . .