FF 50 shenanigans on Pedigree?

[LordRahl]

I'd like to play devils' advocate and offer another view that hasn't been discussed here yet. Please weigh in.

 

While Doug's behavior as an attorney was reprehensible and caused him to be disbarred, it also evoked a strong punishment. He paid for his shameful handling of his law practice and lost his law business.

 

Many of us have bought and sold comics through Doug quite successfully and without incident. Given that track record of successful comic transactions, and the fact that the legal profession has already laid out its punishment, the question each of us face is: do we want to continue to do comic business with Doug? While I can see that many would choose not to, I can also see where a comic collector could dissociate Doug's problems with his legal practice from his comic business.

 

With that said, the matter of potential manipulation of the comic market with selective release of sales data is another issue entirely.

 

I was one of the people that chose to dissociate his legal profession problems with his comics business. But there were too many questionable practices within his comics business that eventually forced me to stop doing business with Doug. The JIM incident chief among them but this fabricating sales data thing is just adding to it.

 

Just to be clear, I don't think this is a case of selective reporting. I think this is an outright fabrication of a sale that never happened. Big difference between those 2 in my opinion.

[Mark 1]

 

Well that affirmation and the one above where you stated "I don't even buy high grade SA and I see that shet everywhere. I'm sure there's more than a handful of dealers right on these boards that could get you your fix" are contradictory, so I don't know which to believe.

 

 

I'm not sure I follow that there's a contradiction anywhere? Mark1 says he buys from Doug, despite what he's heard, b/c he has the books he can't find elsewhere.

 

I'm simply stating my perception that what he buys (high grade, SA) isn't hard to find. That's my perception since I see countless offerings every single month at auction, not to mention numerous boardies in the for sale section offering high grade silver. Without knowing the exact specifics of what he buys, perhaps i'm wrong and the high grade silver he's looking for isn't available anywhere else.

 

What exactly is the contradiction?

 

Jeez louise!!! You act like I am the only one on this forum who buys comics from Doug.

 

The guy isn't one of the top silver age CGC dealers due to me. I am .01% of his sales. Probably less. I have bought 5 books from Doug. That's it...5. I get the feeling many more buy from him on this site but just don't speak up for fear or whatever...

 

And, for a guy who many question his morals and ethics on here...why is he still a contributor to the OSPG? Not that I am saying these allegations occurred or didnt occur but why is it that "satan" as some call him here would still be a viable dealer who contributes to this hobby year after year? Seems counter intuitive to me.

 

Regardless...I will buy my books from people who treat me right. McDonalds reportedly sells and markets death food to our kids...yet they are still in business and are one of the top fast food chains in the world.

 

Everytime you fill up your gas tank you are contributing to thieves who are destroying our planet.

 

Somethings just need a little perspective. We are just talking about comic books for pete's sake.

 

By the way, cheers to everyone because I respect all your opinions.

 

With all this said...the one dealer I was screwed by and will probably never deal with again nobody says a word about....Metropolis....now that is a company I would prefer to stay away from (especially raw books).

I dont buy books from either dealer you brought up. Mostly because I would rather light my money on fire. (thumbs u

 

Why do you obscure your registry? Just curious.

 

And, you are welcome to buy from whomever you want. I respect that. I won't spend a penny at Metro unless I can get a slabbed book on the cheap. Otherwise I think they suck. There I said it.

[seanfingh]

I dont buy books from either dealer you brought up. Mostly because I would rather light my money on fire. (thumbs u

 

Its not interesting, wasnt the same stuff discussed in the last pedigree thread.

 

You are grumpy.

[LordRahl]

This book was for sale in San Diego.

 

 

Interesting Because it was on his site a few weeks ago and eventually "sold" for $13,400. It was reported sold to GPA at $13,400 on July 28th although I'm pretty sure I saw it marked as sold on the site before that. Wasn't SDCC the week of July 19th?

Its not interesting, wasnt the same stuff discussed in the last pedigree thread.

 

It's interesting to me The difference between the last thread and this book is that the last thread had examples of books that sold relatively low and were relisted for a much higher price.

 

With this sale, we are supposed to believe that the buyer relisted the book with Pedigree within a couple of weeks of buying, at a price that will lose him money if it sells. This wasn't a book that was bought below market value. IMO, it's a "sale" that was pure fiction in order to artificially inflate the "value" of the book and try to convince someone to buy it at the $14K price tag.

[Mark 1]

 

Just to be clear, I don't think this is a case of selective reporting. I think this is an outright fabrication of a sale that never happened. Big difference between those 2 in my opinion.

 

Not to pick on you per say but this is my point...it's all speculation. See your post above and what I highlighted.... "I think" being the key words on these GPA issues and such. With the exception of being disbarred the rest is all speculation without definitive proof.

 

Again, not saying it isn't true...it might very well be true and if so...I know who I am dealing with or not dealing with....but I like to base my decisions on facts. The fact I was sold a raw book that was overgraded by Metro...that is a fact and the fact they wouldn't recoup my losses once I had the book slabbed...that's a fact of poor business practices in my eyes. I was affected and probably won't do any biz with them again (unless I get a sweet deal).

 

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I dont buy books from either dealer you brought up. Mostly because I would rather light my money on fire. (thumbs u

 

Its not interesting, wasnt the same stuff discussed in the last pedigree thread.

 

You are grumpy.

I know. But I still like you anyways.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

 

Well that affirmation and the one above where you stated "I don't even buy high grade SA and I see that shet everywhere. I'm sure there's more than a handful of dealers right on these boards that could get you your fix" are contradictory, so I don't know which to believe.

 

 

I'm not sure I follow that there's a contradiction anywhere? Mark1 says he buys from Doug, despite what he's heard, b/c he has the books he can't find elsewhere.

 

I'm simply stating my perception that what he buys (high grade, SA) isn't hard to find. That's my perception since I see countless offerings every single month at auction, not to mention numerous boardies in the for sale section offering high grade silver. Without knowing the exact specifics of what he buys, perhaps i'm wrong and the high grade silver he's looking for isn't available anywhere else.

 

What exactly is the contradiction?

 

Jeez louise!!! You act like I am the only one on this forum who buys comics from Doug.

 

The guy isn't one of the top silver age CGC dealers due to me. I am .01% of his sales. Probably less. I have bought 5 books from Doug. That's it...5. I get the feeling many more buy from him on this site but just don't speak up for fear or whatever...

 

And, for a guy who many question his morals and ethics on here...why is he still a contributor to the OSPG? Not that I am saying these allegations occurred or didnt occur but why is it that "satan" as some call him here would still be a viable dealer who contributes to this hobby year after year? Seems counter intuitive to me.

 

Regardless...I will buy my books from people who treat me right. McDonalds reportedly sells and markets death food to our kids...yet they are still in business and are one of the top fast food chains in the world.

 

Everytime you fill up your gas tank you are contributing to thieves who are destroying our planet.

 

Somethings just need a little perspective. We are just talking about comic books for pete's sake.

 

By the way, cheers to everyone because I respect all your opinions.

 

With all this said...the one dealer I was screwed by and will probably never deal with again nobody says a word about....Metropolis....now that is a company I would prefer to stay away from (especially raw books).

I dont buy books from either dealer you brought up. Mostly because I would rather light my money on fire. (thumbs u

 

Why do you obscure your registry? Just curious.

 

And, you are welcome to buy from whomever you want. I respect that. I won't spend a penny at Metro unless I can get a slabbed book on the cheap. Otherwise I think they suck. There I said it.

There is no reason my set is obscured actually. And if you dont like a dealer you shouldnt deal with them regardless of a books price. I personally wont support any dealer or fellow collector who is unethical in practice. Sometimes I may show up late to the party when finding this stuff out, but could give you a list of people I refuse to deal with on any level.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

This book was for sale in San Diego.

 

 

Interesting Because it was on his site a few weeks ago and eventually "sold" for $13,400. It was reported sold to GPA at $13,400 on July 28th although I'm pretty sure I saw it marked as sold on the site before that. Wasn't SDCC the week of July 19th?

Its not interesting, wasnt the same stuff discussed in the last pedigree thread.

 

It's interesting to me The difference between the last thread and this book is that the last thread had examples of books that sold relatively low and were relisted for a much higher price.

 

With this sale, we are supposed to believe that the buyer relisted the book with Pedigree within a couple of weeks of buying, at a price that will lose him money if it sells. This wasn't a book that was bought below market value. IMO, it's a "sale" that was pure fiction in order to artificially inflate the "value" of the book and try to convince someone to buy it at the $14K price tag.

THIS is logical. And I will enjoy the thread as well, I was playing.

[DrWatson]

Do you only post in between episodes of Jersey Shore?

[GACollectibles]

 

 

I was affected and probably won't do any biz with them again (unless I get a sweet deal).

 

 

There. You have just stated the reason that the unscrupulous dealers stay in business. As long as they have the goods at a price people can't refuse, they have sales.

 

So much for principles.

[Mark 1]

 

 

I was affected and probably won't do any biz with them again (unless I get a sweet deal).

 

 

There. You have just stated the reason that the unscrupulous dealers stay in business. As long as they have the goods at a price people can't refuse, they have sales.

 

So much for principles.

 

Look, I respect your opinion.

 

Don't sit and question my principals, morals or anything else. You don't know me and I don't know you. Where I buy my comic books doesn't speak to my principals.

 

Sorry I don't live up to your high standards.

 

The thing that gets me about some of you guys is you can't debate someone without attacking them personally. All I said was I had positive experiences with the guy and if I can get a sweet deal I might buy from a dealer who might not be the greatest....somehow I am a bad guy with no principals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LordRahl]

 

Just to be clear, I don't think this is a case of selective reporting. I think this is an outright fabrication of a sale that never happened. Big difference between those 2 in my opinion.

 

Not to pick on you per say but this is my point...it's all speculation. See your post above and what I highlighted.... "I think" being the key words on these GPA issues and such. With the exception of being disbarred the rest is all speculation without definitive proof.

 

Again, not saying it isn't true...it might very well be true and if so...I know who I am dealing with or not dealing with....but I like to base my decisions on facts. The fact I was sold a raw book that was overgraded by Metro...that is a fact and the fact they wouldn't recoup my losses once I had the book slabbed...that's a fact of poor business practices in my eyes. I was affected and probably won't do any biz with them again (unless I get a sweet deal).

 

 

This is just a little too black and white for my taste. There is no way to prove with 100% certainty that it was a fabricated sale. You and anyone else for that matter is free to make up their own mind about what they think occured based on the facts. The only facts here are that this exact book sold on July 28th for $13,400 and has now been relisted by that buyer for $14,500. Everything else is technically conjecture.

 

But by your rationale, someone is only guilty of murder if YOU saw him pull the trigger. Regardless of the other evidence present.

[blazingbob]

July 21st - 25th was San Diego.

 

 

[Vpcomix72]

First off, I would like to say that I have never personally purchased books from this Doug character.

But after a Google search of him, I would never ever in a million trillion years consider purchasing anything from him.

A person that consciously rips off senior citizens and the elderly will have absolutely no problem what so ever ripping off a bunch of comic geeks ( myself included ).

He was disbarred for 48 counts of misconduct....................... See Link if you don't believe me. http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/3dseries/2006/2006_00326.htm

 

Anybody that says hes an OK guy, IMO is no better than he is................

Its funny how proof can be offered about a person and yet there will be some of you that return to this forum in the future whining about how they ripped you off.

[Mark 1]

The only facts here are that this exact book sold on July 28th for $13,400 and has now been relisted by that buyer for $14,500. Everything else is technically conjecture.

 

Out of curiousity...if the buyer bought it for $13,400 and is now selling it for $14,500...how are they taking a loss on the book?

 

Perhaps I am missing something.

 

Is it not possible that the buyer decided to sell it to perhaps make a little money and get something else?

 

I just don't get the shenanigans....

 

[TeddieMercede]

What if a buyer just bought the book but couldn't pay for it after the fact ? Doug would still be responsible to report to GPA that the sale didn't go through but I'm sure this sort of thing happens often with consignment sites.

[LordRahl]

First off, I would like to say that I have never personally purchased books from this Doug character.

But after a Google search of him, I would never ever in a million trillion years consider purchasing anything from him.

A person that consciously rips off senior citizens and the elderly will have absolutely no problem what so ever ripping off a bunch of comic geeks ( myself included ).

He was disbarred for 48 counts of misconduct....................... See Link if you don't believe me. http://www.courts.state.ny.us/reporter/3dseries/2006/2006_00326.htm

 

Anybody that says hes an OK guy, IMO is no better than he is................

Its funny how proof can be offered about a person and yet there will be some of you that return to this forum in the future whining about how they ripped you off.

 

I think throwing out a unilateral statement like that is unfair. Some people have a hard time separating the person from the business.

 

I've talked to Doug on the phone and corresponded via email. As a customer and consignor, he used to take very good care of me. He is a nice guy. It's difficult for some people to separate the nice guy personality part of Doug from some of the shady things he has done.

 

It's the same reason I hear for people giving Ted a pass for shoddy grading. Whenever the shoddy grading gets brought up, there are a bunch of people on this board that chime in with what a nice guy he is. He IS a nice guy, no doubt. That shouldn't be an excuse to overgrade and get a pass on it. To be fair to Ted, his grading has improved lately based on the last few books I've bought from him although he is still very hit and miss.

[GACollectibles]

 

 

I was affected and probably won't do any biz with them again (unless I get a sweet deal).

 

 

There. You have just stated the reason that the unscrupulous dealers stay in business. As long as they have the goods at a price people can't refuse, they have sales.

 

So much for principles.

 

Look, I respect your opinion.

 

Don't sit and question my principals, morals or anything else. You don't know me and I don't know you. Where I buy my comic books doesn't speak to my principals.

 

Sorry I don't live up to your high standards.

 

The thing that gets me about some of you guys is you can't debate someone without attacking them personally. All I said was I had positive experiences with the guy and if I can get a sweet deal I might buy from a dealer who might not be the greatest....somehow I am a bad guy with no principals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I never questioned your principals. What would I ask them? "Did Mark 1 get a lot of detentions?" "Was he a good student"? "Did he run in hallway without a hall pass?".

 

Though all very interesting questions, not very relevant to the current discussion.

[Mark 1]

 

Anybody that says hes an OK guy, IMO is no better than he is................

Its funny how proof can be offered about a person and yet there will be some of you that return to this forum in the future whining about how they ripped you off.

 

Oh, so now I am a criminal for buying 5 comic books from the guy. Ludicrous!

 

And just out of curiousity...I gather you have never done business with someone who is an ex-con? I bet you have and didn't know it. Should they be banished and never allowed back into society for paying for their crime? These arguments are childish.

 

AND I DIDN'T SAY HE IS AN OK GUY. I said I had a positive experience buying books from the guy. Learn to read.

[LordRahl]

The only facts here are that this exact book sold on July 28th for $13,400 and has now been relisted by that buyer for $14,500. Everything else is technically conjecture.

 

Out of curiousity...if the buyer bought it for $13,400 and is now selling it for $14,500...how are they taking a loss on the book?

 

Perhaps I am missing something.

 

Is it not possible that the buyer decided to sell it to perhaps make a little money and get something else?

 

I just don't get the shenanigans....

 

$14,500 sale price minus $1450 commission to Doug leaves you with $13,050. Which is less than what he bought it for.