The G.I. Joe #1 Large Staple Variant Mystery

[comiconxion]

Circa 1985, I remember going to a local DC show where American Comics (the company that used to run adds back in the 80's and 90's in comic books) showed up with a long box full of NM G.I. Joe #1's. This is when they were starting to become pretty scarce. What was odd about the books is that they all had oversized staples - more the size you would use for a Treasury edition comic. They were all direct sales editions as well.

 

I always wondered where these came from - were they "secret" reprints (note this pre-dated the time when Marvel agreed to reprint G.I. Joe #2)? Were they some strange Canadian direct sales edition? Or, were they counterfeits? I later compared one of those editions to a standard one and I couldn't tell the difference between these and a refular copy except for the oversized staples so I ruled them out as being counterfeits. Anyone ever run across these and have any more intel? Should there be a price differentiation for these?

 

You can see examples in past Heritage Auctions:

 

Variant Large staples G.I. Joe #1 (direct edition):

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=19064&Lot_No=14345&src=pr

 

 

Regular sized staples G.I. Joe #1 (direct edition):

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=19071&Lot_No=11299&src=pr

 

In fact, it appears that many slabbed copies are ones with large staples. I wonder if they can be traced back to the lot of books I saw back in 1985???

[Drakeprimeone]

Interesting... I'm not one who could say but was it normal for production materials to change within printing the same issue? Was the larger staples unique to that one box you saw? Its odd to call it a "variant" based on the staples, also considering CGC doesn't recognize the difference.

[seanfingh]

 

I will look at the copies I have. I have never heard of this. I love this forum!

[comiconxion]

Was the larger staples unique to that one box you saw?

 

It was unique at the time in 1985. Prior to that, I had never seen any with large staples and then there was an entire batch with large staples. That's why I still remember it 25 years later.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Circa 1985, I remember going to a local DC show where American Comics (the company that used to run adds back in the 80's and 90's in comic books) showed up with a long box full of NM G.I. Joe #1's. This is when they were starting to become pretty scarce. What was odd about the books is that they all had oversized staples - more the size you would use for a Treasury edition comic. They were all direct sales editions as well.

 

I always wondered where these came from - were they "secret" reprints (note this pre-dated the time when Marvel agreed to reprint G.I. Joe #2)? Were they some strange Canadian direct sales edition? Or, were they counterfeits? I later compared one of those editions to a standard one and I couldn't tell the difference between these and a refular copy except for the oversized staples so I ruled them out as being counterfeits. Anyone ever run across these and have any more intel? Should there be a price differentiation for these?

 

You can see examples in past Heritage Auctions:

 

Variant Large staples G.I. Joe #1 (direct edition):

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=19064&Lot_No=14345&src=pr

 

 

Regular sized staples G.I. Joe #1 (direct edition):

 

http://comics.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=19071&Lot_No=11299&src=pr

 

In fact, it appears that many slabbed copies are ones with large staples. I wonder if they can be traced back to the lot of books I saw back in 1985???

 

I have several of both. I think it's more related to production than anything else. In 1982, Marvel was first making use of Baxter paper (I should know this off the top of my head, but I'm fairly certain Star Lord Special Ed #1 was the first one for Marvel, with Marvel Fanfare #1-2 being second and third. GI Joe #1 might have been the fourth one. X-Men/NTT is somewhere in the mix, too) so there could easily have been issues with the print run in some respect. Maybe the "large staples" were used first, and then discovered to be too clunky, or the large staples replaced the small staples. Dunno.

 

In any event, I wouldn't be worried about counterfeits. #1 was expensive, but #2 was the big book of the day. Counterfeiting just wasn't sophisticated enough in 1985-1986 to be worth counterfering a (at best) $35 comic book.

 

I'll check my X-Men/NTT, as it seems they had the same oddity...

[Mutant Manatee]

It would merely be a setting on the saddle-stitching machine, which cuts the "staples" from a continuous roll of wire and drives them through the spine of the book and bends them over.

 

The size of the staple and the crown (the length of wire visible on the spine) can be adjusted on each saddle-stitching machine. Seems there must have been an adjustment, either intentional or accidental, in the middle of the print run.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

It would merely be a setting on the saddle-stitching machine, which cuts the "staples" from a continuous roll of wire and drives them through the spine of the book and bends them over.

 

The size of the staple and the crown (the length of wire visible on the spine) can be adjusted on each saddle-stitching machine. Seems there must have been an adjustment, either intentional or accidental, in the middle of the print run.

 

 

A bit of info I didn't know! You da man, Dub-T!

[RockMyAmadeus]

For the record, I found two "large staples", one CGC 9.8, and one "regular staple" today in my books.

[comiconxion]

 

In any event, I wouldn't be worried about counterfeits. #1 was expensive, but #2 was the big book of the day. Counterfeiting just wasn't sophisticated enough in 1985-1986 to be worth counterfering a (at best) $35 comic book.

 

This is an interesting point... the reason that the #1's never went up in price as much as the #2's is that American Comics was driving the market on Joe prices in the ads that they ran. They were the ones who had the large amount of #1's, but they never had that many #2's until they worked a deal with Marvel to reprint them as part of those 3 packs.

 

I agree that these likely weren't counterfeits, but the appearance of this large cache of #1's is what kept the prices down on the #1's relative to the #2's. A little bit of history for those that may not have been around to see it...

[RockMyAmadeus]

I imagine a large part of the reason why #2 was worth more was because it came out 2 months after #1, and was probably half the print run. 1982 was still a "let's all invest in #1s, while ignoring later issues as worthless" year.

[comiconxion]

I imagine a large part of the reason why #2 was worth more was because it came out 2 months after #1, and was probably half the print run. 1982 was still a "let's all invest in #1s, while ignoring later issues as worthless" year.

 

Yes, I think everyone would point to the fact that #2's had a lower print run is the biggest reason. But to add to that, keep in mind that by the time the Joe series started escalating in price, they had already reprinted #1 in a treasury edition and issues #3-5 had been reprinted as well as part of a 3-pack. #2 was the only one that hadn't been reprinted early on.

[markseifert]

1st print #2 was never part of a 3-pack? I could swear there was a bit in one of those podcasts that metro does with Jay Mabruck of Sparkle City talking about going around the country grabbing all the 3-packs with #2's in them that they could find.

[joecgcmaniac]

1st print #2 was never part of a 3-pack? I could swear there was a bit in one of those podcasts that metro does with Jay Mabruck of Sparkle City talking about going around the country grabbing all the 3-packs with #2's in them that they could find.

 

Joe #2 1st print was never in a 3 pack, only #2 2nd prints

[joecgcmaniac]

I imagine a large part of the reason why #2 was worth more was because it came out 2 months after #1, and was probably half the print run. 1982 was still a "let's all invest in #1s, while ignoring later issues as worthless" year.

 

Yes, I think everyone would point to the fact that #2's had a lower print run is the biggest reason. But to add to that, keep in mind that by the time the Joe series started escalating in price, they had already reprinted #1 in a treasury edition and issues #3-5 had been reprinted as well as part of a 3-pack. #2 was the only one that hadn't been reprinted early on.

 

#3-5 were never reprinted. #2 and #6 are the earliest Joe 2nd prints

[RockMyAmadeus]

I imagine a large part of the reason why #2 was worth more was because it came out 2 months after #1, and was probably half the print run. 1982 was still a "let's all invest in #1s, while ignoring later issues as worthless" year.

 

Yes, I think everyone would point to the fact that #2's had a lower print run is the biggest reason. But to add to that, keep in mind that by the time the Joe series started escalating in price, they had already reprinted #1 in a treasury edition and issues #3-5 had been reprinted as well as part of a 3-pack. #2 was the only one that hadn't been reprinted early on.

 

#3-5 were never reprinted. #2 and #6 are the earliest Joe 2nd prints

 

(thumbs u

 

And both of those...along with the rest...came out in 1985.

[comiconxion]

 

#3-5 were never reprinted. #2 and #6 are the earliest Joe 2nd prints

 

Actually they were the earliest of the reprints but "2nd printing" was never listed anywhere on them. The reprints came out around the same time issue #11 hit the stands and they have different back covers and ads because of it.

 

The easy way to tell a first printing direct edition of #3 is to look for the diamond in the price box like this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/GI-G-I-JOE-MARVEL-COMIC-3-FIRST-PRINT-MDV-/370144903078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

 

The 2nd printing had an "M" in the price box like in this lot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/G-JOE-3-5-30-2nd-Printing-2-Lot-4-Fine-VF-/320484289623?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

 

The other easy way to tell 2md printings of those issues is that all the issues did not have the color coding at the top of the inside pages like Marvel books did at the time.

[joecgcmaniac]

 

#3-5 were never reprinted. #2 and #6 are the earliest Joe 2nd prints

 

Actually they were the earliest of the reprints but "2nd printing" was never listed anywhere on them. The reprints came out around the same time issue #11 hit the stands and they have different back covers and ads because of it.

 

The easy way to tell a first printing direct edition of #3 is to look for the diamond in the price box like this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/GI-G-I-JOE-MARVEL-COMIC-3-FIRST-PRINT-MDV-/370144903078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

 

The 2nd printing had an "M" in the price box like in this lot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/G-JOE-3-5-30-2nd-Printing-2-Lot-4-Fine-VF-/320484289623?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

 

The other easy way to tell 2md printings of those issues is that all the issues did not have the color coding at the top of the inside pages like Marvel books did at the time.

 

Stating that they are 2nd prints is false. It would also be amazing that CGC can't tell the difference between 1st & 2nd prints then 'cause I've had both versions and neither one was listed as 2nd print either on the label or in the indica

 

Not to mention both versions show the 60 cent price. The 2nd prints were all 75 cent covers with the black spidey head in the upc box.

[comiconxion]

Don't want to argue here (or re-write history), but if you look back at old American Comics ads from the 80's and price guides, you'll find that the versions of 3-5 I describe have long been documented as 2nd printings. They came from 3 packs, and have ads that didn't come out until months later. Thems the facts.

 

CGC can be wrong. Check out other posts on Albedo #0! They've marked 2nd and 3rd printings as 1st printings without any notations.

 

The reason that the 3-5 reprints had 60 cent cover prices is because they came out when other books still had a 60 cent cover price. The reason the later ones had a higher cover price is becuase Marvel raised the cover price of books and it reflected the cover price at the time. And, the black Spidey wasn't being used when the 3-5 reprints came out.

 

Now, the Transformers #3 with a different back cover that came from 3 packs is a different story. That has the same back cover as issue #2. So, you could argue that was a first printing - printed before the newsstand editions.

 

Sorry - I was there in the 80's and actively collected the Joe books back then. Call them 3 pack editions that came out months after the newsstand editions, or later printings if you like, but...

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

#3-5 were never reprinted. #2 and #6 are the earliest Joe 2nd prints

 

Actually they were the earliest of the reprints but "2nd printing" was never listed anywhere on them. The reprints came out around the same time issue #11 hit the stands

 

Please document this. (And no, this isn't sarcasm or an attempt to be snide, I really would like to know where this information is found.)

 

I question your timing, because #11 was long before these became "hot", and thus, no need for reprints.

 

and they have different back covers and ads because of it.

 

That is correct...but if they came out around 11, they should have the same ads as those boks cover dated May 1983,.

 

The easy way to tell a first printing direct edition of #3 is to look for the diamond in the price box like this:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/GI-G-I-JOE-MARVEL-COMIC-3-FIRST-PRINT-MDV-/370144903078?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

 

The 2nd printing had an "M" in the price box like in this lot:

http://cgi.ebay.com/G-JOE-3-5-30-2nd-Printing-2-Lot-4-Fine-VF-/320484289623?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

 

That's the only picture I've ever seen on an "M" #3. Mile High doesn't show one, and neither does Lonestar. A cursory glance through eBay doesn't show it either.

 

Please provide a better picture of a "2nd printing #3" (because, as joe pointed out, there didn't seem to be a 2nd printing of #3-5...though, oddly enough, Mile High has a picture of a 75 cent #5 but with a Direct UPC box....

 

minutiae

 

The other easy way to tell 2md printings of those issues is that all the issues did not have the color coding at the top of the inside pages like Marvel books did at the time.

 

Yes, because the books were printed specifically for 3-packs.

[Silent Master]

Don't want to argue here (or re-write history), but if you look back at old American Comics ads from the 80's and price guides, you'll find that the versions of 3-5 I describe have long been documented as 2nd printings. They came from 3 packs, and have ads that didn't come out until months later. Thems the facts.

 

CGC can be wrong. Check out other posts on Albedo #0! They've marked 2nd and 3rd printings as 1st printings without any notations.

 

The reason that the 3-5 reprints had 60 cent cover prices is because they came out when other books still had a 60 cent cover price. The reason the later ones had a higher cover price is becuase Marvel raised the cover price of books and it reflected the cover price at the time. And, the black Spidey wasn't being used when the 3-5 reprints came out.

 

Now, the Transformers #3 with a different back cover that came from 3 packs is a different story. That has the same back cover as issue #2. So, you could argue that was a first printing - printed before the newsstand editions.

 

Sorry - I was there in the 80's and actively collected the Joe books back then. Call them 3 pack editions that came out months after the newsstand editions, or later printings if you like, but...

 

hmmm - re-writing history you are! If this is true there are dozens (probably more than 100) of 2nd prints out there CGC graded as first prints.

 

Oddly enough (15 to 20 years ago) I was always under the impression that there was a difference between 1st print and 2nd print between the box and the diamond price price area... I know I heard that somewhere back in the mid-80's. Then when I got into CGC comics I noticed that they did not note any differences between the two so I naturally thought I was wrong.

 

I have multiple copies of each at home and can't wait to get home now and do a page by page ad comparison of each of them. Is there any chance that it could still be first print and contain different ads??? I believe I've seen comics with different rear cover ads that were both first print.

 

And I'm not saying I don't believe you but how could this information be confirmed? Because places like CGC and Overstreet sure think the 2 are the same...

 

Interesting stuff...