The G.I. Joe #1 Large Staple Variant Mystery

[Silent Master]

Silent Master's #3 CGC 9.8

 

[/img]

 

 

Scan me the back cover.

 

I don't know what to make of this book. It's the only 9/82 Marvel M I've ever seen....and the diamond already exists. I know it *could* be a transition book, but there are no other Marvel books like this at all, so that leans against that theory.

 

If I was a betting man, I'd say this is a later printing, a la #7.

 

Just a hunch. Could be totally wrong. But I imagine it's not a first print.

 

Regardless, seeing a book I didn't know existed from the 80's is an uber thrill.

 

There is nothing I'd like more to scan the back of this for you (and go through all my raw copies) but I'm in Iraq for 6 more weeks... if you are really patient I promise I'll get back to you!!!

[joecgcmaniac]

Silent Master's #3 CGC 9.8

 

[/img]

 

 

Scan me the back cover.

 

I don't know what to make of this book. It's the only 9/82 Marvel M I've ever seen....and the diamond already exists. I know it *could* be a transition book, but there are no other Marvel books like this at all, so that leans against that theory.

 

If I was a betting man, I'd say this is a later printing, a la #7.

 

Just a hunch. Could be totally wrong. But I imagine it's not a first print.

 

Regardless, seeing a book I didn't know existed from the 80's is an uber thrill.

 

There is nothing I'd like more to scan the back of this for you (and go through all my raw copies) but I'm in Iraq for 6 more weeks... if you are really patient I promise I'll get back to you!!!

first things first.... stay safe, then scan the books (thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

Silent Master's #3 CGC 9.8

 

[/img]

 

 

Scan me the back cover.

 

I don't know what to make of this book. It's the only 9/82 Marvel M I've ever seen....and the diamond already exists. I know it *could* be a transition book, but there are no other Marvel books like this at all, so that leans against that theory.

 

If I was a betting man, I'd say this is a later printing, a la #7.

 

Just a hunch. Could be totally wrong. But I imagine it's not a first print.

 

Regardless, seeing a book I didn't know existed from the 80's is an uber thrill.

 

There is nothing I'd like more to scan the back of this for you (and go through all my raw copies) but I'm in Iraq for 6 more weeks... if you are really patient I promise I'll get back to you!!!

 

I am nothing if not patient. Take your time.

 

[comiconxion]

I no longer have copies of the #3-5 reprints in my collection, but if I remember correctly, the checklists inside the books list G.I. Joe #11 as the book that was being published that month.

 

And, if I remember correctly, the ad on the back of all three reprints was for Jedi Arena - a video game that was advertised on the back of G.I. Joe #11 as well (and probably wasn't released when the original #3-5 existed.

 

The "diamond" was only present on G.I. Joe issues #1-3. After that, the M became standard for Marvel direct edition books. That's why the #4 & 5 reprint look the same on the front as the original first printings. The M was also being used at the time #11 was published.

 

Anyway, get out a copy of G.I. Joe #11, copies of the #3-5 reprints, and #3-5 originals and compare the ads inside. The fact that the ads in the reprints match to G.I. Joe #11 and not to the original printings is the final proof you should need.

 

Sorry, I don't have copies of all of them to post. Somebody else out there should have them I imagine.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I no longer have copies of the #3-5 reprints in my collection, but if I remember correctly, the checklists inside the books list G.I. Joe #11 as the book that was being published that month.

 

And, if I remember correctly, the ad on the back of all three reprints was for Jedi Arena - a video game that was advertised on the back of G.I. Joe #11 as well (and probably wasn't released when the original #3-5 existed.

 

The "diamond" was only present on G.I. Joe issues #1-3. After that, the M became standard for Marvel direct edition books. That's why the #4 & 5 reprint look the same on the front as the original first printings. The M was also being used at the time #11 was published.

 

Anyway, get out a copy of G.I. Joe #11, copies of the #3-5 reprints, and #3-5 originals and compare the ads inside. The fact that the ads in the reprints match to G.I. Joe #11 and not to the original printings is the final proof you should need.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but here's the problem...until someone actually does that, and posts the results, it's still just speculation. The only confirmed "M" 2nd printing is #7. It looks like #3 may be, from the evidence thus far provided, but it is not confirmed.

 

I own hundreds of copies of Joe, and have been buying them since the very early 90's. Until the other day, I had never seen an "M" #3 before in my life...and I would have noticed it (because I'm a mutant when it comes to minutiae, and can tell you just about every issue number of every Marvel title that "transitioned" from diamonds to "M"s, from "M"s to boxes, from 50 cent diamonds to 60 cent diamonds, fthe first small diamond DM copies, etc.)

 

As well, you haven't answered the couple of questions I posed to you, such as why a copy of #5 is shown with a 75 cents cover price, in a newsstand box, with old Spidey head.

 

That's the most bizarre one of all.

 

Sorry, I don't have copies of all of them to post. Somebody else out there should have them I imagine.

 

Until they can be coughed up and examined, and the questions posed asked, I'll put this in the "rumor" category.

 

(thumbs u

[Silent Master]

 

Until they can be coughed up and examined, and the questions posed asked, I'll put this in the "rumor" category.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

Man, I guess I can't sell you ocean front property in Arizona either!!!

[comiconxion]

I don't claim to have all the answers and can't answer what those other variants are. I can just tell you the #3-5 reprints exist! I collected the Joe stuff in the mid- 80's and was careful not to buy the reprint issues as many people were selling them as first prints and a lot of people didn't know the difference. I did and now you have all the info. to make your own informed decision. The ads inside and the back covers make them easy to differentiate.

 

If someone out there can provide scans, then you're right, it's pretty easy to see. Unfortunately, I can't provide them.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I don't claim to have all the answers and can't answer what those other variants are. I can just tell you the #3-5 reprints exist! I collected the Joe stuff in the mid- 80's and was careful not to buy the reprint issues as many people were selling them as first prints and a lot of people didn't know the difference. I did and now you have all the info. to make your own informed decision. The ads inside and the back covers make them easy to differentiate.

 

Look, I'm not calling you a liar... ....but until scans are posted, it's just your word that these exist....and you're talking to just about the most knowledgable Joe fanbase in the world (not me, the boards.) We do NOT have all the info to make our own informed decisions, because the information that resolves the very dispute we're discussing is missing!

 

I'm ABSOLUTELY aware that the "obvious" 2nd prints were being passed off as firsts, but these were the ones we all know about and aren't disputing exist.

 

And you still haven't given me a single American Comics ad...and they were ubiquitous in the mid to late 80's...that shows "#3-5 second prints"

 

If someone out there can provide scans, then you're right, it's pretty easy to see. Unfortunately, I can't provide them.

 

Well, I tell ya what....keep it in the back of your mind, and I'll do the same. If anyone runs across these, please feel free to post 'em.

 

Fair enough?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Until they can be coughed up and examined, and the questions posed asked, I'll put this in the "rumor" category.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

Man, I guess I can't sell you ocean front property in Arizona either!!!

Ugh. I lived in that hellhole for 2 long years...never again....

[fastballspecial]

I imagine a large part of the reason why #2 was worth more was because it came out 2 months after #1, and was probably half the print run. 1982 was still a "let's all invest in #1s, while ignoring later issues as worthless" year.

 

Funny you brought an interesting point that I hadnt thought about for years. Back in the late 80s to mid 90s dealers/seller had another point of selling/printing interest. Issue 4 of any title for several years around this time were always a lower print run on issue 4. This was because of a return time for sales data I think. I always remember both dealers and shops telling me this. I dont know when this thought ended, but its not longer discussed or even brought because the faster turn around on sales data. Anyone else remember this little trinket of information or when that rule might have ended?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I imagine a large part of the reason why #2 was worth more was because it came out 2 months after #1, and was probably half the print run. 1982 was still a "let's all invest in #1s, while ignoring later issues as worthless" year.

 

Funny you brought an interesting point that I hadnt thought about for years. Back in the late 80s to mid 90s dealers/seller had another point of selling/printing interest. Issue 4 of any title for several years around this time were always a lower print run on issue 4. This was because of a return time for sales data I think. I always remember both dealers and shops telling me this. I dont know when this thought ended, but its not longer discussed or even brought because the faster turn around on sales data. Anyone else remember this little trinket of information or when that rule might have ended?

 

Oh yes, definitely. For a while,. it was "the #2s" (and this is actually in print in the OPG and other publications of the day)...then, when people caught on to the #2s, it became the #4s.

 

Ghost Rider #4 (1990) is the one that really sticks out. It was broken out in all the guides, and was the most valuable book after #1 and #5.

 

Rai #3 and #4, and Harbinger #4, were similar in this regard. In fact, Rai #4 became a $100+ book because it was touted as "the lowest printed pre-Unity book."

[fastballspecial]

I imagine a large part of the reason why #2 was worth more was because it came out 2 months after #1, and was probably half the print run. 1982 was still a "let's all invest in #1s, while ignoring later issues as worthless" year.

 

Funny you brought an interesting point that I hadnt thought about for years. Back in the late 80s to mid 90s dealers/seller had another point of selling/printing interest. Issue 4 of any title for several years around this time were always a lower print run on issue 4. This was because of a return time for sales data I think. I always remember both dealers and shops telling me this. I dont know when this thought ended, but its not longer discussed or even brought because the faster turn around on sales data. Anyone else remember this little trinket of information or when that rule might have ended?

 

Oh yes, definitely. For a while,. it was "the #2s" (and this is actually in print in the OPG and other publications of the day)...then, when people caught on to the #2s, it became the #4s.

 

Ghost Rider #4 (1990) is the one that really sticks out. It was broken out in all the guides, and was the most valuable book after #1 and #5.

 

Rai #3 and #4, and Harbinger #4, were similar in this regard. In fact, Rai #4 became a $100+ book because it was touted as "the lowest printed pre-Unity book."

 

Yes I remember GR 4 clearly. The Rai's as well although I dont remember a big take for Harbinger 4, but its probably because I didnt like the title at the time. Spawn 4 was another, but more for the coupon stuff as well cuz it sure wasnt the print run.

 

What I wonder is when did that all really end? When did distribution get that better.

[Gatsby77]

And in the end, it turned out that Rai # 3 actually had the smaller print run than # 4, although in my area (greater Philly, 1992-1996), Rai # 3 was about 3x as common as # 4.

 

Funny that this month's Dark Horse reboot Doctor Solar # 1 had a print run smaller than both.

[Silent Master]

I no longer have copies of the #3-5 reprints in my collection, but if I remember correctly, the checklists inside the books list G.I. Joe #11 as the book that was being published that month.

 

And, if I remember correctly, the ad on the back of all three reprints was for Jedi Arena - a video game that was advertised on the back of G.I. Joe #11 as well (and probably wasn't released when the original #3-5 existed.

 

OK - Spent the Thanksgiving Day doing some research on this... After looking at 14 copies I have of #3, 4, & 5 none of them are 2nd prints (that I have), in addition the ads and back covers are the same on the direct, newsstand, and canadian variants.

 

The "diamond" was only present on G.I. Joe issues #1-3. After that, the M became standard for Marvel direct edition books. That's why the #4 & 5 reprint look the same on the front as the original first printings. The M was also being used at the time #11 was published.

 

I have a #3 with the price box and the diamond - the same pages and ads.

 

Anyway, get out a copy of G.I. Joe #11, copies of the #3-5 reprints, and #3-5 originals and compare the ads inside. The fact that the ads in the reprints match to G.I. Joe #11 and not to the original printings is the final proof you should need.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but here's the problem...until someone actually does that, and posts the results, it's still just speculation. The only confirmed "M" 2nd printing is #7. It looks like #3 may be, from the evidence thus far provided, but it is not confirmed.

 

I'm afraid this is not true - I have a #7 (2nd print), #14 (2nd print), and #29 (3rd print) all with the M price box.

 

I own hundreds of copies of Joe, and have been buying them since the very early 90's. Until the other day, I had never seen an "M" #3 before in my life...and I would have noticed it (because I'm a mutant when it comes to minutiae, and can tell you just about every issue number of every Marvel title that "transitioned" from diamonds to "M"s, from "M"s to boxes, from 50 cent diamonds to 60 cent diamonds, fthe first small diamond DM copies, etc.)

 

As well, you haven't answered the couple of questions I posed to you, such as why a copy of #5 is shown with a 75 cents cover price, in a newsstand box, with old Spidey head.

 

That's the most bizarre one of all.

 

Sorry, I don't have copies of all of them to post. Somebody else out there should have them I imagine.

 

Until they can be coughed up and examined, and the questions posed asked, I'll put this in the "rumor" category.

 

(thumbs u

 

And as to the request to post a scan of the back page of my #3 M price box... opps (I sent that off to the VA Comicon to get Hama's signature before I remembered this...sorry)

[wolvergeek]

This thread has been a fun read.

 

I have a 3 pack (#3 - #5) that I bought on Ebay awhile ago that I thought contained first prints until today. I bagged and boarded each issue (they were in really nice shape, 9.6 to 9.8) I will see what they look like. I think I have a raw #11 around but if not I know I have a CGC 9.8 of #11 and I believe my CGC 9.8 #3 also has the M price box like Silent Master's but I have to double check.

[wolvergeek]

Comiconxion is right! I looked at the 3 pack i have and found that....

 

#3 with the diamond price box has a back cover ad of some movie called Megaforce.

 

#3 with the M price box has the Jedi Arena video game back cover ad as does #4 and #5 from the 3 pack!

 

The 3 pack has the correct months of publication on the respective covers and inside on the first pages. But they all have the same ads and the Marvel checklist that coincides with issue #11. Issue #11 has the exact same back ad of Jedi Arena. Nowhere does it say that the 3 packs are second printings however.

 

#4 with the M price box that came out after #3 has a back cover ad for The Empire Strikes Back video game.

 

#5 with the M price box that came out after #4 has a back cover ad for Lego.

 

This makes distinguishing an early #4 or #5 difficult if you can't see the back cover. My 9.8 3, 4 and 5 all have the correct ad and were not part of a 3 pack.

 

So even though the three packs are considered first printings to CGC and Overstreet, technically you need one of the correct back cover ads to have a non-three pack issue. I noticed awhile back on ebay a slew of #3's, 4's and 5's showing up all of a sudden. I think someone graded a bunch of these. I thought about grading and selling mine but never got around to it.

 

[Silent Master]

Comiconxion is right! I looked at the 3 pack i have and found that....

 

#3 with the diamond price box has a back cover ad of some movie called Megaforce.

 

#3 with the M price box has the Jedi Arena video game back cover ad as does #4 and #5 from the 3 pack!

 

The 3 pack has the correct months of publication on the respective covers and inside on the first pages. But they all have the same ads and the Marvel checklist that coincides with issue #11. Issue #11 has the exact same back ad of Jedi Arena. Nowhere does it say that the 3 packs are second printings however.

 

#4 with the M price box that came out after #3 has a back cover ad for The Empire Strikes Back video game.

 

#5 with the M price box that came out after #4 has a back cover ad for Lego.

 

This makes distinguishing an early #4 or #5 difficult if you can't see the back cover. My 9.8 3, 4 and 5 all have the correct ad and were not part of a 3 pack.

 

So even though the three packs are considered first printings to CGC and Overstreet, technically you need one of the correct back cover ads to have a non-three pack issue. I noticed awhile back on ebay a slew of #3's, 4's and 5's showing up all of a sudden. I think someone graded a bunch of these. I thought about grading and selling mine but never got around to it.

 

Nice - good information! Thanks!!!

[comiconxion]

The other way of telling the the difference between the three-pack editions and the original direct sales versions is that there is no bar at the top of the interior pages as was the standard back in the day. So, whe you look at the top of the book (when it's in a bag and board), you can quickly identify it's the reprint vs. the original first printing. Did I remember correctly?

[HEAT Viper]

As a Joe comics collector who's been hunting the early issues in the Marvel run lately I've found this thread really interesting and informative. I just picked up a #5 last week. Before I bought it I asked the dealer if it was a first print, to which he replied yes, he thought it was, but I was welcome to check. I opened up to the first page to check the fine print, saw no "second printing" and figured I was good. Then I read all this, went home yesterday evening, pulled my #5, looked at the back, and found a Jedi Arena ad. Then I turned to the Bullpen page, looked at the checklist, and saw G.I. Joe #11 listed. Then I pulled my #11 and checked the ads, and they are the same. And you're right Comicconxion--original printings do have the colored bar, my #5 does not, and that, along with the ads, etc. means that my #5 is not an original printing but one from the three packs (what other issues were included in the 3 packs with the #5?)

 

And yet, from what I've gathered on this thread, these are not considered "second printings" by CGC or Overstreet? If you look up G.I. Joe in Overstreet (last year's edition--I haven't gotten the new one yet) it basically groups all second printings together and lists them at $2.50 or something like that. It doesn't indicate which issues or groups of issues have second printings. I do have some G.I. Joe issues, like #12, that are clearly indicated as second printings. But what does that make my #5 and how would I value it? Is it a second printing? A variant? Does anyone have ideas as to the print runs on these 3 pack editions compared to the original editions?

 

 

[comiconxion]

Not sure on the print runs of the three packs (which included issues 3, 4 & 5), but even in the 80's, they were mixed in with the other newsstand and direct editions in back issue bins and not differentiated as "2nd Printings." So, I'd guess there were at least 20-60,000 of them printed as they were pretty common.

 

Keep in mind that at the time these were printed, doing 2nd printings was rare so there wasn't a standard on how to label them. Star Wars #1-6 (years earlier) had multiple printings and look at the variety of ways they represented the fact that they were reprints. Some had reprint on the cover, some didn't. Some had 30 cent covers, some had 35 cent ones.

 

Anyway, it was only later after back issue G.I. Joe prices started climbing that Marvel bothered to start labeling the 2nd printings in a more consistent way by putting "2nd Printing" in the Indicia. I believe they also did not include the color bar on the interiors of the reprints as well (although there could be some that break that rule - I haven't fully researched that) since they were never intended to be put out on the comic racks as individual issues.

 

Glad this information was helpful to people. Someone should get in contact with CGC and let them know that they need to change the label on these. Likely they just weren't aware. They're human and not experts on everything!

 

Maybe someone who has copies can post pics to show others the differences? Unfortunately I no longer have the 3-pack versions in my collection.