The most sought-after Copper Age Batman books

[JohnnyDeLicious]

I'm a bit ticked off about the NYCC "no hand cart" policy.

 

Not disparaging you, but this seems to be becoming a standard at most larger shows. Definitely at SDCC, I believe stated but not enforced at Wondercon, and NYCC feels about like Wondercon size-wise, but is more crowded. Aren't there some boardies setting up booths? Maybe one of them could accomodate your boxes with a folding cart that could probably be used without hassle at the end of the day?

[COI]

And please don't take that as a knock against ASM 121-122. It is a fabulous story. I guess it just doesn't fit into my ASM collecting focus, so I don't understand the demand completely.

 

Oh come on, ASM 121-122 is definitely one of the most significant stories/events of the bronze age.

[Bosco685]

And please don't take that as a knock against ASM 121-122. It is a fabulous story. I guess it just doesn't fit into my ASM collecting focus, so I don't understand the demand completely.

 

Oh come on, ASM 121-122 is definitely one of the most significant stories/events of the bronze age.

You're in the wrong area anyway.

 

Sorry, but I never really cared about ASM 121-122. I was always more fascinated with the contents of ASM 39-40 than I was with this final battle.

 

[the blob]

I'm a bit ticked off about the NYCC "no hand cart" policy.

 

Not disparaging you, but this seems to be becoming a standard at most larger shows. Definitely at SDCC, I believe stated but not enforced at Wondercon, and NYCC feels about like Wondercon size-wise, but is more crowded. Aren't there some boardies setting up booths? Maybe one of them could accomodate your boxes with a folding cart that could probably be used without hassle at the end of the day?

 

yeah, that's what I was thinking more or less, there's only one dealer (outside the board folks and I'm not sure who from here will be there) i tend to do business with who I would trust to keep track of the stuff (particularly because I'd probably be buying half a box from him), but he leaves his table for chunks of the shows and i don't particularly trust his "partner" and while his mother who sometimes helps, is a very nice lady, she's might be a bit of a scatterbrain and I can see my stuff walking away when she isn't paying attention.

 

the big NYC show at pier 57 last year (or was it early this year?) did not have (or enforce I guess) such a policy. never had a problem at the big apple/national shows. i understand, it would be absolute chaos if everyone was dragging one around, but the fact is that may be 1:20 or fewer folks do. not to mention, collections might walk in this way and now dealers won't get those. I really hate lugging a huge backpack of books around, i already stink badly enough by the end (or middle) of these shows!

[RockMyAmadeus]

Using the aforementioned example...the high price fr Spiey #129 in 9.8is $14K+. The high price for Batman #227 in 9.8 is $13K+. Just considering those numbers, that means Spidey #129 is only a little more in demand than Batman #227, right?

------------------

 

so these two basically sell for roughly the same in 9.8 and you're saying it beats it hands down?

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Please understand what those numbers mean.

 

quantity was not part of my point (we're not talking about the "what if" scenario of everyone stockpiling batmans in 1972 like early collectors were doing with spidermans), indeed the batmans have that extra bit of demand nowadays in part because they are not quite as common (plus neal adams is hot now). true, were these competently done nick cardy covers on these batmans/detectives folks would care less, at least for the big money books.

 

 

Do you really not understand the impact availability has on value...?

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

ASM 129 isn't a key for anything having to do with Spider-Man.

 

Bat 232 & Tec 400 apply to the whole Batman mythos. ASM 129 intro'd a character that became popular outside of the Spidey realm.

 

It's comparing apples to oranges.

 

What' the most valuable Spiderman book of the Bronze age?

 

What's the most valuble Batman book of the Bronze age?

 

Apple = apple.

 

We're not discussing WHY....we're only discussing WHAT.

 

WHY is a totally separate argument.

 

But again, Spidey #121 and #122 will fit the bill just as nicely.

 

 

[Jeffro.]

If you look at the Copper Age period for Amazing Spider-Man and Batman, my personal opinion is the Batman titles had fabulous story arcs. Spider-Man, there were a few.

 

Batman

- Year One

- Year Two

- Dark Knight Returns

- Ten Nights of the Beast

- Death in the Family

- Blind Justice

- Killing Joke

- Many Deaths

- The Cult

 

Spider-Man

- Gang War

- Kraven's Last Hunt

- The Hobgoblin battles

- The early Venom battle

 

Any I am missing?

 

I forgot to add:

 

- Batman: Son of the Demon

- Batman: Gotham by Gaslight (I liked it, and the Mignola art fit the story)

- Batman & Dracula: Red Rain

- Batman: A Lonely Place of Dying

- Batman: Arkham Asylum

 

Copper Age Batman stories rocked!

 

 

But if you take, in their entirety, both the entire Batman run, or Tec run, and ASM in the Copper age, I think ASM is a better total run. I just think ASM was better overall in both art and story.

 

I must respectfully disagree, most vehemently. Please remove the Marvel-colored glasses.

 

I'll take the consistently solid and sometimes great runs of Denny O'Neil/Roger Stern/John Romita jr/Ron Frenz in ASM over whatever revolving door of writers and artists that the Tec and Batman runs had in the 80's

[Bosco685]

I'll take the consistently solid and sometimes great runs of Denny O'Neil/Roger Stern/John Romita jr/Ron Frenz in ASM over whatever revolving door of writers and artists that the Tec and Batman runs had in the 80's

I know, poor Alan Moore, Bernie Wrightson, Jim Starlin, Todd McFarlane, Frank Miller, Brian Bolland, David Mazzucchelli, Mike Mignola, Grant Morrison, Dave McKean and John Byrne. They all dreamed of one day working on REAL comics while they toyed with this zany caped crusader character.

 

[Jeffro.]

I'll take the consistently solid and sometimes great runs of Denny O'Neil/Roger Stern/John Romita jr/Ron Frenz in ASM over whatever revolving door of writers and artists that the Tec and Batman runs had in the 80's

I know, poor Alan Moore, Bernie Wrightson, Jim Starlin, Todd McFarlane, Frank Miller, Brian Bolland, David Mazzucchelli, Mike Mignola, and John Byrne. They all dreamed of one day working on REAL comics while they toyed with this zany caped crusader character.

 

 

You're picking out the (admittedly great) best stuff and ignoring the dreck. And I'm not talking about stuff like Wrightson on The Cult. I'm talking about the Tec and Batman runs. The entirety of the Copper runs of those books. ASM wins in consistency (imo)

[Bosco685]

I'll take the consistently solid and sometimes great runs of Denny O'Neil/Roger Stern/John Romita jr/Ron Frenz in ASM over whatever revolving door of writers and artists that the Tec and Batman runs had in the 80's

I know, poor Alan Moore, Bernie Wrightson, Jim Starlin, Todd McFarlane, Frank Miller, Brian Bolland, David Mazzucchelli, Mike Mignola, and John Byrne. They all dreamed of one day working on REAL comics while they toyed with this zany caped crusader character.

 

You're picking out the (admittedly great) best stuff and ignoring the dreck. And I'm not talking about stuff like Wrightson on The Cult. I'm talking about the Tec and Batman runs. The entirety of the Copper runs of those books. ASM wins in consistency (imo)

There are many issues of Amazing Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man and Spider-Man you can throw on the grill to burn and you'd never miss them. Both Batman and Spider-Man had this throughout their Copper Age titles.

 

I'm just pointing out there were MANY super story arcs within the Batman family that could compete with any great Spider-Man story arc. I think both had great material during that period that stood out from the filler issues.

 

So there!

 

[seanfingh]

There are many issues of Amazing Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man, Spectacular Spider-Man and Spider-Man you can throw on the grill to burn and you'd never miss them. Both Batman and Spider-Man had this throughout their Copper Age titles.

 

You mean like the introduction of major awesome villains like Slyde, Humbug and The Spot? Or the Secret Wars II crossover where everything turned to gold? Or the mind-numbing tales of the Puma's corporate espionage? How about the photo cover issue?

 

Oh, i'm sorry, I must have missed the nurse bringing around the marvel Kool-Aid this morning . . .

[Bosco685]

[Jeffro.]

 

Oh, i'm sorry, I must have missed the nurse bringing around the marvel Kool-Aid this morning . . .

 

It was tasty. Mine had vodka in it.

[kidcolt]

Mine had Red Bull, it gives u wings ha ha.

 

I think both had it shares of hits and misses during this time. I think the earlier ASM from this time was solid however towards the end of the copper age it got watered down as Marvel kept using the same couple of characters over and over (Venom for example). I still feel that Spidey's rogues gallery is under used. I loved spidey from 228-320 especially in the 250 range.

 

Batman was also solid, I enjoyed the series during that time.

[the blob]

Using the aforementioned example...the high price fr Spiey #129 in 9.8is $14K+. The high price for Batman #227 in 9.8 is $13K+. Just considering those numbers, that means Spidey #129 is only a little more in demand than Batman #227, right?

------------------

 

so these two basically sell for roughly the same in 9.8 and you're saying it beats it hands down?

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Please understand what those numbers mean.

 

quantity was not part of my point (we're not talking about the "what if" scenario of everyone stockpiling batmans in 1972 like early collectors were doing with spidermans), indeed the batmans have that extra bit of demand nowadays in part because they are not quite as common (plus neal adams is hot now). true, were these competently done nick cardy covers on these batmans/detectives folks would care less, at least for the big money books.

 

 

Do you really not understand the impact availability has on value...?

 

 

Of course, but you seem to be more concerned with the "what if" scenario of equal #s of bats vs. spideys, I'm talking about the "reality" scenario. You can't discount the whole market for these books by saying "they'd be 50 cent books if they were as common as spideys". These Bat books have become more popular price/demand-wise "recently" (like in the last 10 years) in part because they are (a bit) less common than their spidey (and other marvel) counterparts, plus some good movies helped. Maybe I'll list 50 bronze Bats vs. 50 Bronze Spideys at 75% of OPG in my store (with the best offer option, of course) and see what sells more/faster. It won't prove anything, of course. Problem is, it may be skewed in that I probably have a bigger % of higher grade spidey books.

[the blob]

ASM 129 isn't a key for anything having to do with Spider-Man.

 

Bat 232 & Tec 400 apply to the whole Batman mythos. ASM 129 intro'd a character that became popular outside of the Spidey realm.

 

It's comparing apples to oranges.

 

What' the most valuable Spiderman book of the Bronze age?

 

What's the most valuble Batman book of the Bronze age?

 

Apple = apple.

 

We're not discussing WHY....we're only discussing WHAT.

 

WHY is a totally separate argument.

 

But again, Spidey #121 and #122 will fit the bill just as nicely.

 

 

Well then, couldn't you say BA Hulk beats BA Batman as well using that logic? Heck, thanks to Wolvie's popularity BA Hulk has 3 books that may command big numbers in high enough grade.

[the blob]

Mine had Red Bull, it gives u wings ha ha.

 

I think both had it shares of hits and misses during this time. I think the earlier ASM from this time was solid however towards the end of the copper age it got watered down as Marvel kept using the same couple of characters over and over (Venom for example). I still feel that Spidey's rogues gallery is under used. I loved spidey from 228-320 especially in the 250 range.

 

Batman was also solid, I enjoyed the series during that time.

 

other than the occasional stupid issue (frogman, something where a kid turned into a super hero and a few others) spidey had some fine plots/stories in the 200s. the art was pretty generic (though spidey was never a title that needed the top notch artists to work on it, though Byrne did some nice ones in the 70's)

[RockMyAmadeus]

Using the aforementioned example...the high price fr Spiey #129 in 9.8is $14K+. The high price for Batman #227 in 9.8 is $13K+. Just considering those numbers, that means Spidey #129 is only a little more in demand than Batman #227, right?

------------------

 

so these two basically sell for roughly the same in 9.8 and you're saying it beats it hands down?

 

That's exactly what I'm saying. Please understand what those numbers mean.

 

quantity was not part of my point (we're not talking about the "what if" scenario of everyone stockpiling batmans in 1972 like early collectors were doing with spidermans), indeed the batmans have that extra bit of demand nowadays in part because they are not quite as common (plus neal adams is hot now). true, were these competently done nick cardy covers on these batmans/detectives folks would care less, at least for the big money books.

 

 

Do you really not understand the impact availability has on value...?

 

 

Of course, but you seem to be more concerned with the "what if" scenario of equal #s of bats vs. spideys, I'm talking about the "reality" scenario. You can't discount the whole market for these books by saying "they'd be 50 cent books if they were as common as spideys".

 

Of course I can! That's been proven hundreds, if not thousands, of times over! Every single time a "formerly rare" book becomes more common, the price has always, always, always gone down. In fact, I don't think there's a single example of a book that has increased in the census (let's use a conservative "by 50% or more"), but gone UP in value, or even MAINTAINED its value.

 

If it's true for 99.99% of every book that exists, why do you think it's not reasonable to extrapolate that out to 99.995%?

 

(And I'm not saying they'd be 50 cent books...but they'd certainly not be more than $100 books.)

 

These Bat books have become more popular price/demand-wise "recently" (like in the last 10 years) in part because they are (a bit) less common than their spidey (and other marvel) counterparts, plus some good movies helped. Maybe I'll list 50 bronze Bats vs. 50 Bronze Spideys at 75% of OPG in my store (with the best offer option, of course) and see what sells more/faster. It won't prove anything, of course. Problem is, it may be skewed in that I probably have a bigger % of higher grade spidey books.

 

That's why you can't use a single set of data to discuss these things, but have to look at the market as a whole.

 

And the market as a whole has resoundingly said that, grade for grade, book for book, apples for apples, pound for pound, Spiderman outsells Batman by a very, very large margin, from Poor to Mint, from 1963 to 1995 and even beyond.

[RockMyAmadeus]

ASM 129 isn't a key for anything having to do with Spider-Man.

 

Bat 232 & Tec 400 apply to the whole Batman mythos. ASM 129 intro'd a character that became popular outside of the Spidey realm.

 

It's comparing apples to oranges.

 

What' the most valuable Spiderman book of the Bronze age?

 

What's the most valuble Batman book of the Bronze age?

 

Apple = apple.

 

We're not discussing WHY....we're only discussing WHAT.

 

WHY is a totally separate argument.

 

But again, Spidey #121 and #122 will fit the bill just as nicely.

 

 

Well then, couldn't you say BA Hulk beats BA Batman as well using that logic? Heck, thanks to Wolvie's popularity BA Hulk has 3 books that may command big numbers in high enough grade.

 

You COULD make that argument, but remember that underlying my argument is THE REST of the books, and THE REST of the Spidey books...comparing apples to apples...beat Batman, as I posited at the very beginning.

 

It not only has to work at the very top, but also the very bottom, and everywhere in between. Hulk WORKS at the very top...but fails at everything else.

 

You can't just take my specific reply to Buttock's specific comment out of context and then try and "Ah HA!" me.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Mine had Red Bull, it gives u wings ha ha.

 

I think both had it shares of hits and misses during this time. I think the earlier ASM from this time was solid however towards the end of the copper age it got watered down as Marvel kept using the same couple of characters over and over (Venom for example). I still feel that Spidey's rogues gallery is under used. I loved spidey from 228-320 especially in the 250 range.

 

Batman was also solid, I enjoyed the series during that time.

 

other than the occasional stupid issue (frogman, something where a kid turned into a super hero and a few others) spidey had some fine plots/stories in the 200s. the art was pretty generic (though spidey was never a title that needed the top notch artists to work on it, though Byrne did some nice ones in the 70's)

 

For some reason, Spidey really, really suffered until Roger Stern created Hobgoblin and gave the series focus again. Most of the issues between about #150-#238 are generally unfocused, and not nearly as good as what came before, or after. There are bright spots (#194, #200, #229-230.)