For me, The Copper Age began....

[dupont2005]

I think a lot of 80's books still had a solid Bronze vibe to them, most actually, but I do like to round it out to "80's comics." I guess that's more what I collect, not what Copper is though

[Jeffro.]

To this day copper age is my favourite era.

 

Bronze Age is my favorite, but Copper was the most exciting time to be a comic fan - lots of LCS opening up, tons of interest, amazing books like Dark Knight, Watchmen, Swamp Thing, Sandman, Hellblazer, etc. coming out, just a cool time to be reading.

 

I also remember picking up the Paul Smith X-Men run every month and thinking he was the second coming on John Byrne.

 

Likewise. The Smith art was so clean.

 

But it was such a tease. He only did, what, 10 issues?

[Bosco685]

Of those, Iron Man #128 probably qualifies, but other than maybe ASM 200, the rest are just keys/first-apps/last issues/etc..

 

In the original thread, we were looking for "major changes" or shifts in the comic landscape, not just a list of keys.

I have to agree. None of those issues were impactful enough to assume they had that Copper Age-transition feel. ASM 200, though, is another I'm not sure really had anything other than a retelling of the origin that would make it special. Was there anything else?

 

For me, I like female villain/hero intro books, so ASM 194 and UXM 129 are definite favorites.

[Bosco685]

May 1979: Green Lantern #116 (1st Gardner as G.L.)

The more I think about this book, the more I lean towards it being important to Green Lantern fans, and more importantly a transition book fitting the Copper Age theme.

 

Guy is the "antihero" hero: something we saw often during this period. But he doesn't become this go-forward character until the events of GL #116 when he is launched into the Phantom Zone (we don't find this out until GL #122 where he went from the explosion in GL #116). He is tortured to the point of madness, making him who he is today and the annoying Green Lantern you love to hate. Who didn't cheer when Batman punched him out in Justice League 5?

 

It just proves DC did a fantastic job establishing this character as someone to be loathed, and yet could still pull off heroic acts keeping him on the side of being considered a superhero.

[Jeffro.]

Who didn't cheer when Batman punched him out in Justice League 5?

 

One of the greatest single moments of the copper age.

[the blob]

I think for me, it was Miller's run on Daredevil... all through the years that would come to be known as the Copper Age, that was the book that seemed to set the tone. It was the first book, or series of books where the artist was more important, collectability wise, than the character or events portrayed within it. He followed it up with Batman :The Dark Knight, and Year One, and there was Mike Grell on Warlord, Green Arrow and Jon Sable, Freelance, Perez on Teen Titans, and Wonder Woman, and John Byrne's run on the X-Men, and Tim Truman on Scout and Grim Jack... Yeah, Frank Miller started the Copper Age for me.

 

I kindah disagree with this as Kirby was the basis for launching like 15 DC titles in the early 70's, it was all about "Kirby" on those books.

 

And John Byrne was "the man" in comics by the time Miller took over the DD scripting as well as the art in 1980. That's when Miller on DD really started to take off. Anything Byrne touched was collectible then, even a cover.

 

Granted, Miller was the "it" guy by the time/when he did the Wolvie mini.

[the blob]

Updated Copper Age Transition Timeline:

 

May 1979: Daredevil 158- First Miller art

Nov 1979: Iron Man #128 "Demon in a Bottle"

Feb 1980: She-Hulk #1

Mar 1980: King Conan 1

Apr 1980: Star Trek 1

Spring 1980: Epic Illustrated 1

Sep 1980: X-Men 137- Death of Dark Phoenix

Oct 1980: DC Presents 26- first New Teen Titans

Nov 1980: New Teen Titans 1

Nov 1980: Moon Knight gets his own series

1980 : Superboy Spectacular- Direct Sales only 1-shot

Jan 1981: Daredevil 168- First Miller -script; Intro Elektra

Jan 1981: X-Men 141- Days of Future Past launches alternate time line that would form the basis for lots of uber-fandom-based X-continuity over the next several years

Jan 1981: Capital Comics launches and publishes Nexus 1

Mar 1981: X-Men 143- Final Claremont/Byrne

Mar 1981: Dazzler 1- First direct-sales-only for an ongoing series

Mar 1981: Bizarre Adventures starts

Mar 1981: Captain Canuck is cancelled

May 1981: Eclipse Magazine starts

June 1981: The Hulk magazine ends

Jul 1981: Fantastic Four 232 - Byrne takes over FF writing/art duties.

Aug 1981: Rogue debuts

Aug 1981: Marvel Premiere ends

Nov 1981: Captain Victory 1- First Pacific Comics issue, direct-only publisher

1981: Marvel cancels many of its reprint titles, including MGC, AA, TTA, MSA, etc.

1981: Stan Lee moves to California to head Marvel TV/movie properties, leaving Jim Shooter in charge

March 1982: Warrior Magazine #1 (Marvelman, V for Vendetta)

May 1982: Saga of the Swamp Thing #1

June 1982: G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1

June 1982: Marvel Super-Hero Contest of Champions #1 (first Marvel Mini, precursor to Secret Wars)

Sept 1982: Love and Rockets debuts

Sept 1982: Wolverine Mini #1

1982: Harvey Comics, Warren Publishing and Spire Comics cease operations

1982: DC cancels remaining Horror titles

1982: Start of creator royalties at Marvel and DC

1982: Steve Geppi founds Diamond

1982: Marvel introduces Graphic Novel series, including Death of Captain Marvel and X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills

 

 

Well, from a comic collecting/industry perspective you have to look at Dazzler 1 or the Wolvie Mini or GI Joe 1. GI Joe definitely felt like a shift at the time, but what do I know, I was a kid.

 

From a thematic/subject matter perspective...

 

NTT #1? Normally I would ignore any DC because, honestly, how could it have such impact when so few people were reading/collecting them (see, e.g., Green Lantern 116), but that was not the case with NTT, which was DC's only real competition, at the time, with X-Men. (OK, now someone will chime in and tell me that NTT was only DC's 6th most popular titile...)

 

But then again, what impact did NTT have on comicdom in general that Byrne's revamp/revitalization of X-Men didn't have a couple of years earlier? I guess it maybe righted the ship a little bit at DC, though many other DC titles remained lagards...maybe from a collectors perspective it made some collectors think that DC could be relevant/hot (so you could have Omega Men and Camelot 3000 come out and get speculated on), though, really, the Rogers Batman run should have been sufficient for that!

[Bosco685]

Is Warp #1 (1983) the 1st First Comics book published? If so, I'd add that to the list as First Comics had some fantastic titles such as Lone Wolf & Cub, American Flagg, Grimjack, Badger, Jon Sable, the continuing adventures of Nexus, and many other titles.

 

And Mike Gold leaving to be Senior Editor at DC Comics, and bringing Mike Grell, Howard Chaykin, and Tim Truman leading to the delivery of Green Arrow: Long Bow Hunter, Hawkworld, and Black Hawk all came from the foundation of this company and the relationships formed.

[Yannis]

There has to be a time frame established. We cannot establish a time frame by only using titles. That will cause more confusion. From what I have heard, December 1982 is the cutoff for Bronze. The timeframe has expanded in recent years. And perhaps in another decade we could see 1984 become the cutoff for Bronze.

[Cimm]

There has to be a time frame established. We cannot establish a time frame by only using titles. That will cause more confusion. From what I have heard, December 1982 is the cutoff for Bronze. The timeframe has expanded in recent years. And perhaps in another decade we could see 1984 become the cutoff for Bronze.

 

I think it's more likely to go the other way... in another decade, the cut-off for Bronze might be 1981...

[Cimm]

I think for me, it was Miller's run on Daredevil... all through the years that would come to be known as the Copper Age, that was the book that seemed to set the tone. It was the first book, or series of books where the artist was more important, collectability wise, than the character or events portrayed within it. He followed it up with Batman :The Dark Knight, and Year One, and there was Mike Grell on Warlord, Green Arrow and Jon Sable, Freelance, Perez on Teen Titans, and Wonder Woman, and John Byrne's run on the X-Men, and Tim Truman on Scout and Grim Jack... Yeah, Frank Miller started the Copper Age for me.

 

I kindah disagree with this as Kirby was the basis for launching like 15 DC titles in the early 70's, it was all about "Kirby" on those books.

 

And John Byrne was "the man" in comics by the time Miller took over the DD scripting as well as the art in 1980. That's when Miller on DD really started to take off. Anything Byrne touched was collectible then, even a cover.

 

Granted, Miller was the "it" guy by the time/when he did the Wolvie mini.

 

Kirby's DC work was much touted, but tanked within a short time... by the time the 80s rolled around, they were in the 50 cent bins, and nobody cared. I'm an 80s kid, with some vestiges, very limited admittedly, of first-hand 70s experience... by the time I was INTO, and completely aware of what was going on in comics (1983 or so), Kirby wasn't even a blip on the radar, unless you collected Silver Age. Miller's been relevant ever since... Just my perspective, your mileage (and the environment you were exposed to at the same time) may vary...

[Cimm]

Is Warp #1 (1983) the 1st First Comics book published? If so, I'd add that to the list as First Comics had some fantastic titles such as Lone Wolf & Cub, American Flagg, Grimjack, Badger, Jon Sable, the continuing adventures of Nexus, and many other titles.

 

And Mike Gold leaving to be Senior Editor at DC Comics, and bringing Mike Grell, Howard Chaykin, and Tim Truman leading to the delivery of Green Arrow: Long Bow Hunter, Hawkworld, and Black Hawk all came from the foundation of this company and the relationships formed.

 

great point! And don't forget Del Close (who did the 18 issue series Wasteland for DC)... He was WARP.

[Bosco685]

Is Warp #1 (1983) the 1st First Comics book published? If so, I'd add that to the list as First Comics had some fantastic titles such as Lone Wolf & Cub, American Flagg, Grimjack, Badger, Jon Sable, the continuing adventures of Nexus, and many other titles.

 

And Mike Gold leaving to be Senior Editor at DC Comics, and bringing Mike Grell, Howard Chaykin, and Tim Truman leading to the delivery of Green Arrow: Long Bow Hunter, Hawkworld, and Black Hawk all came from the foundation of this company and the relationships formed.

 

great point! And don't forget Del Close (who did the 18 issue series Wasteland for DC)... He was WARP.

 

Thanks for adding that!

[Jeffro.]

Kirby's DC work was much touted, but tanked within a short time... by the time the 80s rolled around, they were in the 50 cent bins, and nobody cared. I'm an 80s kid, with some vestiges, very limited admittedly, of first-hand 70s experience... by the time I was INTO, and completely aware of what was going on in comics (1983 or so), Kirby wasn't even a blip on the radar, unless you collected Silver Age. Miller's been relevant ever since... Just my perspective, your mileage (and the environment you were exposed to at the same time) may vary...

 

It was the early 80's, I had just really gotten into superhero comics. I never much liked Kirby's work in those days, but it grew on me until I really liked it. I remember going into my then LCS and buying the Demon 1-16 for like $12. I then started picking up other 4th world titles and they really weren't worth much back in those days. I think I got 5 Kamandi # 1's through mail order for less than a dollar a piece.

[the blob]

I think for me, it was Miller's run on Daredevil... all through the years that would come to be known as the Copper Age, that was the book that seemed to set the tone. It was the first book, or series of books where the artist was more important, collectability wise, than the character or events portrayed within it. He followed it up with Batman :The Dark Knight, and Year One, and there was Mike Grell on Warlord, Green Arrow and Jon Sable, Freelance, Perez on Teen Titans, and Wonder Woman, and John Byrne's run on the X-Men, and Tim Truman on Scout and Grim Jack... Yeah, Frank Miller started the Copper Age for me.

 

I kindah disagree with this as Kirby was the basis for launching like 15 DC titles in the early 70's, it was all about "Kirby" on those books.

 

And John Byrne was "the man" in comics by the time Miller took over the DD scripting as well as the art in 1980. That's when Miller on DD really started to take off. Anything Byrne touched was collectible then, even a cover.

 

Granted, Miller was the "it" guy by the time/when he did the Wolvie mini.

 

Kirby's DC work was much touted, but tanked within a short time... by the time the 80s rolled around, they were in the 50 cent bins, and nobody cared. I'm an 80s kid, with some vestiges, very limited admittedly, of first-hand 70s experience... by the time I was INTO, and completely aware of what was going on in comics (1983 or so), Kirby wasn't even a blip on the radar, unless you collected Silver Age. Miller's been relevant ever since... Just my perspective, your mileage (and the environment you were exposed to at the same time) may vary...

 

that doesn't mean it didn't happen and wasn't the first real artist based collecting boomlet, it just wound up not succeeding because kirby was probably a bit past his prime and spread himself thin on too many titles and probably could have used a better writer or two to make it all mesh.

[the blob]

There has to be a time frame established. We cannot establish a time frame by only using titles. That will cause more confusion. From what I have heard, December 1982 is the cutoff for Bronze. The timeframe has expanded in recent years. And perhaps in another decade we could see 1984 become the cutoff for Bronze.

 

I think it's more likely to go the other way... in another decade, the cut-off for Bronze might be 1981...

 

12/31/79 used to be the cut-off for bronze, though that was pretty random as well

[Cimm]

I think for me, it was Miller's run on Daredevil... all through the years that would come to be known as the Copper Age, that was the book that seemed to set the tone. It was the first book, or series of books where the artist was more important, collectability wise, than the character or events portrayed within it. He followed it up with Batman :The Dark Knight, and Year One, and there was Mike Grell on Warlord, Green Arrow and Jon Sable, Freelance, Perez on Teen Titans, and Wonder Woman, and John Byrne's run on the X-Men, and Tim Truman on Scout and Grim Jack... Yeah, Frank Miller started the Copper Age for me.

 

I kindah disagree with this as Kirby was the basis for launching like 15 DC titles in the early 70's, it was all about "Kirby" on those books.

 

And John Byrne was "the man" in comics by the time Miller took over the DD scripting as well as the art in 1980. That's when Miller on DD really started to take off. Anything Byrne touched was collectible then, even a cover.

 

Granted, Miller was the "it" guy by the time/when he did the Wolvie mini.

 

Kirby's DC work was much touted, but tanked within a short time... by the time the 80s rolled around, they were in the 50 cent bins, and nobody cared. I'm an 80s kid, with some vestiges, very limited admittedly, of first-hand 70s experience... by the time I was INTO, and completely aware of what was going on in comics (1983 or so), Kirby wasn't even a blip on the radar, unless you collected Silver Age. Miller's been relevant ever since... Just my perspective, your mileage (and the environment you were exposed to at the same time) may vary...

 

that doesn't mean it didn't happen and wasn't the first real artist based collecting boomlet, it just wound up not succeeding because kirby was probably a bit past his prime and spread himself thin on too many titles and probably could have used a better writer or two to make it all mesh.

 

Totally agree... with better writers, and maybe just a couple of titles, it could've been a completely different outcome... but, as it stands, Kirby didn't start the collecting frenzy based on the artist working on a given title that boomed during the Bronze age... for the discussion at hand, Kirby's seventies work is irrelevant.

[Cimm]

There has to be a time frame established. We cannot establish a time frame by only using titles. That will cause more confusion. From what I have heard, December 1982 is the cutoff for Bronze. The timeframe has expanded in recent years. And perhaps in another decade we could see 1984 become the cutoff for Bronze.

 

I think it's more likely to go the other way... in another decade, the cut-off for Bronze might be 1981...

 

12/31/79 used to be the cut-off for bronze, though that was pretty random as well

 

yeah, that was purely arbitrary, based solely on the end of the decade... by 1981/82, thought, there were maybe enough events signifying change to base a true Age-shift on... the concensus has yet to be reached, but this kind of discussion should get us there

[the blob]

Kirby didn't start the collecting frenzy based on the artist working on a given title that boomed during the Bronze age... for the discussion at hand, Kirby's seventies work is irrelevant.

--------------------------

 

what are you talking about, these books were "collected" like crazy! they were in 50 cent boxes (heck, 25 cent boxes) a few years later because every dealer in the country and virtually every collector thought it would be a great idea to buy a ton of extras to salt away for when they'd be "valuable." the fact that they were not so collectible later on due to mediocre work/stories and way too much supply is irrelevant.

 

kirby, it seems, at least on a large scale level, was the first artist to drive titles and have people buy them because "kirby" did them. whether they regretted spending their money later is irrelevant!

 

(although wally wood did a little of that with some of his one shots in the late 60's where it was "wally wood's....")

 

in any event, byrne was the next "the man." people who bought FF because he was doing it. he was the guest artist du jour at marvel before anyone cared about frank miller. miller on daredevil took a little while to gel, i don't remember this being an instant big deal (as he didn't start writing the scripts until what, 168?).

 

not trying to be a stickler/PITA and it seems like we were probably looking at these books at the same time, but from a historical perspective, byrne needs to get the credit first. the kirby craze of the 70's was more about nostalgia than content. byrne really produced some fantastic stuff for a 6 or 7 year stretch.

 

miller came after

[joe_collector]

From what I have heard, December 1982 is the cutoff for Bronze.

 

Then you need to hear more, as these books are almost universally recognized as Copper:

 

March 1982: Warrior Magazine #1 (Marvelman, V for Vendetta)

May 1982: Saga of the Swamp Thing #1

June 1982: G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1

June 1982: Marvel Super-Hero Contest of Champions #1 (first Marvel Mini, precursor to Secret Wars)

Sept 1982: Love and Rockets debuts

Sept 1982: Wolverine Mini #1

 

Alan Moore and Warrior are a truly seminal moment in CA history, as is Love and Rockets and the Wolvie Mini.