To leave a negative or not?

[garthgantu]

If you were an impartial comic book judge and a buyer and seller came up to you and asked which one of them should leave each other feedback first, knowing the second one will see the first one before responding, would you say the Buyer or the Seller should leave feedback first ? Whether it was a good transaction or not and you were the judge, who has first responsibility?

 

I don't think the problem is quite so black-and-white..?

If you're the buyer, and the deal is going south, do what you can to get it back on course. If it goes south completely and you're left with a mediocre experience or bad experience, and you feel you've made a reasonable effort to make things right and the seller just wasn't cooperative, leave neutral or neg feedback accordingly and be prepared to receive retaliatory feedback in kind. (But as a buyer, you shouldn't really have to worry much about your fb rating, unless you're also a seller and you're selling via the same account you buy with - which IMO is a pretty big mistake.)

 

If you're the seller, and don't really care about whether you rec'v feedback and if so whether it's neg, neutral or otherwise, then leave pos. feedback upon receipt of payment.

 

If you're the seller and you DO care about what sort of feedback you get, don't leave feedback until the buyer has. This way you'll never find yourself being "blackmailed" by a buyer who (rightly or wrongly) contends that you haven't held up your end of the bargain - or rather, you'll minimize the likelihood of this happening, and have some recourse (retaliatory fb) if it does happen.

 

This ain't rocket science...! It's always amazed me how many differing opinions there are on the subject of feedback...

[mrwoogieman]

As a seller, I leave feedback shortly after payment is made. If no payment is made, I go through the process of getting my final value fees back (which includes a strike against the buyer's account) and then leave negative feedback (not always, but more often than not).

 

As a buyer, I leave feedback only after receipt of the item and an inspection to determine that it is what I paid for. If I have any issues upon receipt of the item, I always contact the seller first to see if they will make it right before I resort to feedback.

[lighthouse]

The seller. Once the buyer has remmitted payment, he/she has fufilled their obligation and successfully completed the transaction.

 

Thank you Foolkiller. I rest my case.

 

If the payment is completely irreversible I might agree with you here...

 

But if there is any possibility for the buyer to attempt to get their money back, the transaction isn't over until both sides agree it is. Whether it's a fraudulent chargeback on a credit card or an item switch on a return, in most cases the buyer still has a way to scam the seller even after sending payment.

 

We have this debate on the board at least every few weeks, but I firmly believe the buyer has obligations beyond the remittance of payment. Even if a buyer sends cash that I receive the day after the auction closes, there are still opportunities for them to become a "negative feedback buyer". There is a lot they can do after payment is sent that would encourage me to report them to every seller I know as someone to put on the blocked bidder list. And if I thought badly enough about them to make that suggestion to the sellers on this board, I have an obligation to let the rest of the eBay world know too.

 

Personally I think the feedback system is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Beyond the normal concerns about buying an item for $1000 from someone with 12 feedback, I don't believe the numbers really even matter much any more. And it's apparent the high volume sellers agree which is why so many of them don't even leave feedback for anyone. They just don't care whether they get feedback or not. There is no significant difference in realized price for a 5000 feedback seller vs a 500 feedback seller. So there isn't much reason to care about building a number beyond a certain level. They could change every high-feedback seller's rating to saying "500+" on their item page and it wouldn't change the auction results one bit...

 

In fact, the system has changed to be so strongly in favor of the buyer on payment disputes that I actually care more about the feedback of my buyers than I care about the feedback of my sellers. It actually matters to me when a Canadian bidder has 250 feedback instead of 25, but I don't even really care anymore whether my seller has 5000 or 500 or 50... I am far more concerned about whether a bidder plans to screw me over. The sellers I know I can get my money back...

 

Just my 2 cents... now I am off to get my super-size fries at McDonald's... gotta hurry... they're only available for 301 more days...

 

'House

[BassGMan]

 

I don't think the problem is quite so black-and-white..?

If you're the buyer, and the deal is going south, do what you can to get it back on course. If it goes south completely and you're left with a mediocre experience or bad experience, and you feel you've made a reasonable effort to make things right and the seller just wasn't cooperative, leave neutral or neg feedback accordingly and be prepared to receive retaliatory feedback in kind. (But as a buyer, you shouldn't really have to worry much about your fb rating, unless you're also a seller and you're selling via the same account you buy with - which IMO is a pretty big mistake.)

 

If you're the seller, and don't really care about whether you rec'v feedback and if so whether it's neg, neutral or otherwise, then leave pos. feedback upon receipt of payment.

 

If you're the seller and you DO care about what sort of feedback you get, don't leave feedback until the buyer has. This way you'll never find yourself being "blackmailed" by a buyer who (rightly or wrongly) contends that you haven't held up your end of the bargain - or rather, you'll minimize the likelihood of this happening, and have some recourse (retaliatory fb) if it does happen.

 

This ain't rocket science...! It's always amazed me how many differing opinions there are on the subject of feedback...

 

Garthgantu, you and I could not be any more opposite. First off, most of my Ebay transactions are as a seller. About 75%. The 25% or so is as a buyer. I sell between 10 to 50 comics (raw and slabbed) per week. I only have one account which I use for buying AND selling. I have nothing to hide, try to be as honest and accurate as possible with my listings, and pay immediately when I buy something. I care very much about my feedback rating which is at about 850 now. All positives except two negs as a buyer which were retaliatory. In those cases, both sellers were very negligent, I tried to work things out. No luck, they received negs and negged me back. Oh well, those things happen. As a seller I have received no negs and only one neutral for a bent envelope (with cardboard, very strong mailman). I have also never been blackmailed. Nothing even close. Maybe I have been lucky. Maybe I am a good seller. Maybe my grading is accurate, shipping protection and prices are fair and I ship fast. Sheesh, some dealers...... -------Sid

[garthgantu]

Garthgantu, you and I could not be any more opposite.

Well, that's okay - you're in good company!

 

First off, most of my Ebay transactions are as a seller.

Then you should have two eBay accounts - it's that simple. You're letting your fear of negs on your selling account affect your perspective when buying.

 

I'm not even sure where we disagree - are you saying that as a seller, you feel it's prudent or "proper procedure" to leave fb immediately upon receipt of payment? Haven't you had at least a few instances in which you've left pos. fb for a buyer, and then had problems, which could have escalated into neg feedback for you if things hadn't been resolved? If so, I'd say you've been awfully lucky...so far.

[davidking623]

The seller. Once the buyer has remmitted payment, he/she has fufilled their obligation and successfully completed the transaction.

 

Thank you Foolkiller. I rest my case.

 

If the payment is completely irreversible I might agree with you here...

 

But if there is any possibility for the buyer to attempt to get their money back, the transaction isn't over until both sides agree it is. Whether it's a fraudulent chargeback on a credit card or an item switch on a return, in most cases the buyer still has a way to scam the seller even after sending payment.

 

We have this debate on the board at least every few weeks, but I firmly believe the buyer has obligations beyond the remittance of payment. Even if a buyer sends cash that I receive the day after the auction closes, there are still opportunities for them to become a "negative feedback buyer". There is a lot they can do after payment is sent that would encourage me to report them to every seller I know as someone to put on the blocked bidder list. And if I thought badly enough about them to make that suggestion to the sellers on this board, I have an obligation to let the rest of the eBay world know too.

 

Personally I think the feedback system is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Beyond the normal concerns about buying an item for $1000 from someone with 12 feedback, I don't believe the numbers really even matter much any more. And it's apparent the high volume sellers agree which is why so many of them don't even leave feedback for anyone. They just don't care whether they get feedback or not. There is no significant difference in realized price for a 5000 feedback seller vs a 500 feedback seller. So there isn't much reason to care about building a number beyond a certain level. They could change every high-feedback seller's rating to saying "500+" on their item page and it wouldn't change the auction results one bit...

 

In fact, the system has changed to be so strongly in favor of the buyer on payment disputes that I actually care more about the feedback of my buyers than I care about the feedback of my sellers. It actually matters to me when a Canadian bidder has 250 feedback instead of 25, but I don't even really care anymore whether my seller has 5000 or 500 or 50... I am far more concerned about whether a bidder plans to screw me over. The sellers I know I can get my money back...

 

Just my 2 cents... now I am off to get my super-size fries at McDonald's... gotta hurry... they're only available for 301 more days...

 

'House

 

The best point yet on super sized fries!

Feedback I dont even bother unless they leave it first as a seller which reminds me I need to leave some for a board member here! I adjust to all situations and react accordingly WOW feedback is so overrated that I hardly even read there feedback I usually go into the feedback they have left about others and judge them on this! You can learn a lot about whether they are what seems like a good person in general by there feedback they have left about others just my .03 cents worth DAMN INFLATION!

 

Davidking623

[buttock]

I tend to leave more neg/neutrals than most. I really appreciate it when I can look at a dealer's feedback and know whether or not I'll get burnt. I hope that my feedback helps others. That's the whole point of feedback, not whether or not I have a perfect rating.

You definitely should have negged.

[Ze-man]

Perhaps it would behoove Ebay to revamp their Feedback System( I know, I know, not gonna happen)

But if they did.

Would be nice to see a system in place where every Ebay accnt. had 2 seperate Feedback ratings..

 

One kept as a seller

 

And the other kept as a buyer

 

This way, when you list an item as a seller, your feedback listed on the auction page is for " feedback from sales you made only" and if you are buying from someone, you can look at all their "seller " feedbacks in 1 place, easily see if they are legit , and if they have negs, everyone that is listed would be from a previous sale on Ebay that went bad

 

With the current system in place, sellers/buyers are afraid to leave negs.

As a buyer, I find that negs dont mean squat.. if you make payment asap, then the seller could care less if you have 5 negs.

But as a seller if you have 5 negs from 3 years ago when you got burned as a buyer and got burned by negs that tarnish their perfect "seller " rating, then a buyer might be leary of that seller .

 

This system would not be hard to implement, nor expensive, it would just differ from what they have in plave.

 

And yes I know that currently you can go to feedbak, break down a seller/buyers feedback in their profile, and look at all past feedbacks etc...

 

My point is if there was 2 seperate feedback ratings for each accnt, then as a seller you could buy items on Ebay, and leave feedback as you wished, without fear of retaliatory feedbacks you might incur as a buyer, that would put a blemish on your seller ratiing

 

Does this make sense?

 

I will await my idea to be shot full of holes.

 

Zeman

[BassGMan]

Hey Zeman, I won't shoot any holes. Sounds good to me. Even though I ranted above about how I feel about feedback, I also hold back on leaving a buyer or seller a negative in fear of retaliation. -----Sid

[Rickdogg]

Isn't the seller's name Bryan Good from Northern Cali? I'm shocked that this has happened since Bryan has always been good to me. Granted he does overgrade a bit on bronze books, his modern grading is sweet! I purchased a bulk of my early issue GI Joes from him raw for pennies and slabbed them for my personal collection

[spidermanbeyond]

I have also dealt with this seller as Rickdogg has too. He is a pretty fair seller and overgrades alittle (what seller on Ebay doesn't). Sounds like you had a bad day. I am sure that you both can have the negatives removed if you both mutually agree (I believe this is the new Ebay system). You should try to work it out as he is reasonable. Good luck.

[Hensley300]

Well guys, that does mean a lot coming from you and rickdogg. Who knows.i feel the book was grossly overgraded and underpackaged but i know i jumped the gun with the neg and did not try to work it out at all. Not sure what i am going to do at this point but info taken

[Rickdogg]

Well don't feel too bad. Just because I had a good transaction it doesn't mean you did. People do screw up sometimes, but your description does sound very shocking since I have done business with Bryan in the past when he lived in San Diego, near Las Vegas, and now in Folsom is it? I hope you guys come to a resolution.

[UnboxingTreasures]

My advice on leaving negatives:

 

Wait 90 days and then leave negative feedback, so the other person won't have a chance to respond with retaliatory negative feedback...

 

A lot of times you want to give negative feedback for somebody who truly deserves it , but they respond by being childish and posting negative feedback that isn't warranted.

 

Just wait til the final day for filing...

 

Just my 2 cents

[Cody_Starbuck]

When it comes to differences of grading opinion, I have chosen to leave no feedback since I buy fairly cheap comics. I then never buy from that seller again. Kochcom, in my opinion, is an example of a seller that overgrades their comics.

 

Aside from grading issues, the only problem that I have had was with a seller who took a really long time to ship. I had won a bid on the 6th of February and the seller did not ship until the 23rd of February; I received them on the 26th. But when I got my comics, they were packaged like a tank and in the condition advertised, so I gave a positive feedback that noted the shipping delay.

 

So far, I have six positive feedbacks out of 12 or so transactions. When I when a bid, I generally pay within minutes since I am at the computer and only bid at things that I have the cash to pay for.

[garthgantu]

My advice on leaving negatives:

 

Wait 90 days and then leave negative feedback, so the other person won't have a chance to respond with retaliatory negative feedback...

 

Well, in some cases I could see using this strategy - though it's a bit cowardly, no? But as I understand it, the "90-day window" is in fact purposely "loose" (sometimes it's 90 days exactly, other times it's 91, 92, 93 or more days) in order to keep people from using your strategy to much effect. In other words, don't be surprised if someday you get a retaliatory neg from someone AFTER the 90 days are up and you think you're safely out of the woods...

[Calamerica]

Your post is a good one. Makes a lot of sense. I think a lot of us understand the frustration of this topic. Unfortunately, none of us can have THE answer as each Buyer/Seller transaction IS a case-by-case basis and dependent on details too numerous to count.

 

CAL

[Calamerica]

Oh, I would like to add that you are correct with "they are not newbies, either". That makes it MORE frustrating, as all of our expectations of seasoned eBayers is much higher. This point should be easily agreeable. The final results, of course, vary.

 

CAL

[FFB]

For what it's worth, most of the VF/NM uncirculated copies I've gotten from Kochcom have been accurately graded. Most of them have crappy QP, but the grades have been accurate for wear. This is out of probably 20 books I've gotten from them over the last year or so.

 

When it comes to differences of grading opinion, I have chosen to leave no feedback since I buy fairly cheap comics. I then never buy from that seller again. Kochcom, in my opinion, is an example of a seller that overgrades their comics.

 

Aside from grading issues, the only problem that I have had was with a seller who took a really long time to ship. I had won a bid on the 6th of February and the seller did not ship until the 23rd of February; I received them on the 26th. But when I got my comics, they were packaged like a tank and in the condition advertised, so I gave a positive feedback that noted the shipping delay.

 

So far, I have six positive feedbacks out of 12 or so transactions. When I when a bid, I generally pay within minutes since I am at the computer and only bid at things that I have the cash to pay for.