Comics that are hard to find because of importance

[dupont2005]

Wow,that is a dream afternoon for me!!

I'm going there tomorrow, but I don't know how much time I can spend there.

[Bosco685]

friggin hoarders...

my pantry!

 

Hey, they keep the market going though as books they have special feelings towards keep getting gobbled up. I have no problem with those type buyers. I may even be one.

 

[mysterio]

I have found it impossible to find a single non-super hero Copper comic in any comic shop anywhere ever since I started collecting again. No TMNT vol. 1, no Fantagraphics Usagi, no Deadworld, Love And Rockets, Elflord, Elfquest, No Eclipse, NOW, not even any Silverwolf comics

 

That's because Copper books are now in the No Man's Land of comics retailing...

 

Allow me to explain: when I first started seriously collecting, in 1990, most of the shops in the SF Bay Area had lots and lots of 1980's back issues. They had them because they had been gathering them as new books, and then placing them in the back issue bins over the time period. As well, collectors have generally tended to have a "10 year limit" in terms of pursuing recent back issue runs they didn't have.

 

They also had Silver Age books because anything Silver at that time was selling for ridiculous amounts of money, regardless of what it was. A VF Sea Devils #25? EASY sell at $10. $10 in 1990 dollars was quite a bit, especially for a book that was $1 or less not 3 years earlier.

 

What they did NOT have was Bronze books, because at that point, they had already been sold as "back stock", but were much too cheap to take up valuable floor space, because no one wanted them.

 

Now, the same thing has happened for 80's and 90's books. Most stores in existence now were NOT around in the 80's, and those who were have mostly closed, so they don't have original stock from the era. They're not worth the floor space, and "new back issue" buyers are only buying 2000's books, for the most part. But there sure are a lot of big money Bronze books on store walls.

 

Interestingly enough, Silver is a lot harder to find on average than it was then, too.

 

And you'd have to have a really special store to stock Golden Age in any reasonable numbers.

 

Of course, these are generalizations, and exceptions apply, and eBay and the internet have changed a lot of these dynamics, too. But it's fairly accurate.

 

I've had this same general impression. It is a rare day when I go into a comic shop that has any decent back issue inventory. Every time my wife and I travel I scour the internet looking for a shop or two to hit in that particular town, and usually I am quite disappointed by what I find in terms of back issues. If you guys ever get near Austin (like, for Wizard, for example) you should check out Austin Books & Comics (just a beautiful shop with tons of quality back stock) and Capstone Comics (their wall books were pretty outrageously priced IMHO but their boxed backstock was deep and well-priced). They will probably both set up at Wizard but won't be able to bring all their long-boxed goodness with them. I found about a half-dozen books at each shop, which is a relatively huge dent for a single store to put into my want list these days.

[proventheory-migration]

very interesting.

 

I have found it impossible to find a single non-super hero Copper comic in any comic shop anywhere ever since I started collecting again. No TMNT vol. 1, no Fantagraphics Usagi, no Deadworld, Love And Rockets, Elflord, Elfquest, No Eclipse, NOW, not even any Silverwolf comics

 

That's because Copper books are now in the No Man's Land of comics retailing...

 

Allow me to explain: when I first started seriously collecting, in 1990, most of the shops in the SF Bay Area had lots and lots of 1980's back issues. They had them because they had been gathering them as new books, and then placing them in the back issue bins over the time period. As well, collectors have generally tended to have a "10 year limit" in terms of pursuing recent back issue runs they didn't have.

 

They also had Silver Age books because anything Silver at that time was selling for ridiculous amounts of money, regardless of what it was. A VF Sea Devils #25? EASY sell at $10. $10 in 1990 dollars was quite a bit, especially for a book that was $1 or less not 3 years earlier.

 

What they did NOT have was Bronze books, because at that point, they had already been sold as "back stock", but were much too cheap to take up valuable floor space, because no one wanted them.

 

Now, the same thing has happened for 80's and 90's books. Most stores in existence now were NOT around in the 80's, and those who were have mostly closed, so they don't have original stock from the era. They're not worth the floor space, and "new back issue" buyers are only buying 2000's books, for the most part. But there sure are a lot of big money Bronze books on store walls.

 

Interestingly enough, Silver is a lot harder to find on average than it was then, too.

 

And you'd have to have a really special store to stock Golden Age in any reasonable numbers.

 

Of course, these are generalizations, and exceptions apply, and eBay and the internet have changed a lot of these dynamics, too. But it's fairly accurate.

[Bosco685]

But, as many comic shops as I find myself visiting, there are certain issues I never seem to find.

If we were talking about Copper Age in general, then there could be a point for feeling it still has not hit a stage of sustainable demand for sellers to maintain steady stock when they can find it, or that they were late to the game and only stock newer books. But dealers are finding these collections with our continued economic challenges and collectors with multiple quantities needing cash.

 

But the point was *certain issues,* and it just so happens some of those issues are considered sought-after candidates. Dealers would love to have these books in quantity, and hunt for them as well for long-term hoarding or filling want lists for customers. This leads to these books never even hitting the store stock. I know of a local store that when you walk in, there is nothing but new books, statues, card games, posters, and t-shirts. But they take want lists, and have staff searching Atomic Avenue, Comic Collector Live, and even Ebay to fulfill back issue orders. This way, they're not sitting on a huge backstock of older books when only the keys move regularly. Those "internets" are bringing even more benefit to brick-and-mortar dealers to avoid a massive stock investment.

 

Do you actually think a dealer doesn't want to have an endless supply of Saga of the Swamp Thing 20-21? In 9.8, they are selling for $80-$130 (some lower, some higher).

 

But if you hunt on Ebay, set up a specific search agent for what you are looking for (don't just leave it to all Copper Age), and remain patient, most any of these books can be had even in high-grade condition.

[Jeffro.]

impotence

 

A couple issues of Cherry Poptart should solve that.

[djpinkpanther67]

impotence

'Bout time someone noticed

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The problem with many of these books is simple: no one wants them. Yes, you have people like us, but for every one of us, there are 100 or more people who genuinely could not care less.

 

And how many of us reading this right now has every one of the issues you mentioned? I *probably* have the Defenders issues, but couldn't say for sure, I don't think I have both Flash issues, and I don't think I've ever owned a DCP #47....and this from a guy whose goal is to own one of everything printed in the 1980's.

 

So, these are considerations that are going to have a very large bearing on what stores will stock. They can't waste time on books with very little demand. Plus, those that DO have such books look at the OPG and price them at 3-4 times what they're actually worth. If I can get a nice 9.4ish copy of Swamp Thing #21 for $5 off eBay...even including shipping...why would I pay a store $20 for a copy?

 

IF there was any demand for these, I guarantee you, they would come flooding from the hoards being sat upon now and satisfy a great portion of that demand.

 

I'm not quite sure why DP #17-18, New Mutants #19-20, or Ghost Rider #73 are important. They're not historically key issues.

[500Club]

That's because Copper books are now in the No Man's Land of comics retailing...

 

Now, the same thing has happened for 80's and 90's books. Most stores in existence now were NOT around in the 80's, and those who were have mostly closed, so they don't have original stock from the era. They're not worth the floor space, and "new back issue" buyers are only buying 2000's books, for the most part. But there sure are a lot of big money Bronze books on store walls.

 

 

On the money. Between competing with eBay, and diversifying into shirts/figures/tpbs and other merch, stores don't have the back issue bins that were so prevalent 20 years ago.

[Jeffro.]

Fantastic Four 243, 246-247, 258 -- all Byrne issues

 

This surprises me. I've found skads, and skads, and SKADS of these over the years. At one time, I had trouble not finding them. Same goes for Perez/Wolfman New Teen Titans. I was buying those in quarter boxes just because I could.

[chrisco37]

Fantastic Four 243, 246-247, 258 -- all Byrne issues

 

This surprises me. I've found skads, and skads, and SKADS of these over the years. At one time, I had trouble not finding them. Same goes for Perez/Wolfman New Teen Titans. I was buying those in quarter boxes just because I could.

 

Yep. Think I got all my Byrne FF's out of $1 or $2 boxes.

[500Club]

Fantastic Four 243, 246-247, 258 -- all Byrne issues

 

This surprises me. I've found skads, and skads, and SKADS of these over the years. At one time, I had trouble not finding them. Same goes for Perez/Wolfman New Teen Titans. I was buying those in quarter boxes just because I could.

 

Likewise. Have 5-10 of each. At some point I should've separated the value of these books to me personally from the actual value of these books.

[Topnotchman]

The reason you rarely can find Copper keys or Copper runs of books in LCS is pure economics. It takes space to display long boxes of comics, it takes labor to sort, grade and price them. Than you see the better books sell right away, the rest just sit. The option of a store buying a 3,000 book collection from the 1980's and 1990's just to pull the best 50 books to sell. Wow that is a lot of work with little reward, what do you do with the other 2,950 comics?

 

As a store owner could just add a deeper selection of trade paperbacks, with one book depth and order the book from Diamond when it sells. The replacement is just that simply, vrs tying to hunt down key issues from collections that contain thousands of books.

 

Than stores have the problem that the die hard back issue collectors shop online because all those books are just one click away. Take those collectors out of the picture and you can see why its tough to turn a profit on back issues on a local level. Mind as well just put more high cover price trades or video games in the store.

 

 

[dupont2005]

Wow,that is a dream afternoon for me!!

I'm going there tomorrow, but I don't know how much time I can spend there.

It was closed

[Scott Goodman]

Okay, this question was really asked to see what people on these forums thought about why these books are hard to find, to see the different opinions of collectors both new and old. I do appreciate everyone's responses and it has generated some good posts.

I've already asked the dealers where I shop, from as far south as South Carolina to as far north as Pennsylvania and nearly everywhere in between, and nearly every single dealer said the same thing: They would each love to have copies of these books, but no one ever brings them in. They don't appear in collections, as I've bought several, including a very extensive collection from a former San Diego dealer who sold me his own, cherry-picked collection, which didn't not include any of the issues I mentioned in the first post.

A shop owner near me said he'd love to have these books in stock and I did find a VG- copy of Saga of the Swamp Thing 21 in one store in Kentucky and when I tuend the guy down when he said it was $25 firm, another guy picked the book up and bought it. So, the store was looking for a copy of that particular issue all over again.

In ALL of the stores I frequent, there isn't a single one with even 100 boxes of comics. Think about it, 3,000-4,000 long boxes of comics takes up a lot of space. If you've got that many, then you're most likely talking about a Mile High Comics store or Lone Star Comics. I haven't been to either of those chains of stores, and don't figure I'll ever make it in there for a visit to see the thousands of longboxes of comics I'm sure they have.

The largest stock is one store in Kentucky that has a few hundred long boxes in an actual warehouse nearby. The owner has a very large store, but, with toys, t-shirts, games and comics, he has room for about 50-60 long boxes of back issues.

Stores that have 3,000-4,000 long boxes in addition to their store stock would have more than 1 million comics. That's a heck of a lot of comics and really unrealistic to think that most stores have that kind of backstock.

In Tennessee, a store with a very large stock hasn't had most of these issues in the 10 years I've been shopping there and the store is in a college town where the guy gets collections offered to him all the time.

My opinion on this is that as soon as these copies come available in stores, there are a lot of collectors waiting to snatch them up, just like the guy did with the Saga of the Swamp Thing 21.

I don't think it's reasonable to believe that no one wants these comics. Many of them have really great covers, great writers, great artists and great storylines that many fondly remember and want to put into their collections.

In one shop, I found a copy of Flash 323 in VG. The guy wanted, like, $15 for it and wouldn't come down. When I went back in and checked the Flash box, it was gone, sold to someone willing to pay $15 for a VG copy of a 1983 book that started off the long-running Trial of the Flash. Not to mention it's got a really great Flash vs. Flash cover.

As for last issues, I know there are a lot of last issue collectors out there. At my local shop, there are a lot of comic collectors who buy every last issue, which makes last issues of Fantastic Four, Incredible Hulk, Amazing Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America and Avengers really hard to find. Plus, the print runs were considerably lower, too.

I can usually find Don Perlin Ghost Riders, but those Bob Budiansky Ghost Riders only show up in beat-but-complete shape.

Issue 73 has a really great cover and that may be why it's so tough to find.

I've been collecting comics for 32 years now. I've found most of the issues I want, but it took some looking, especially pre-internet-pre-eBay. I do buy a lot of books from eBay and I can find most of those books pretty cheap on eBay, but I still stand by my original statement that I rarely see them in actual stores.

[dupont2005]

I do believe a lot of comic shops have storage units filled with comics.

[Topnotchman]

I do believe a lot of comic shops have storage units filled with comics.

 

Yes many comic stores have long boxes stacked in cold storage units, those ones that look like a small garage. I have been to some, they open the door and the stacked long whites go straight up about 8 foot. Solid cubes of comics. You quickly becomes overwhelmed as you start to pull boxes down to go through them. You try to create a new level of boxes that are easier to get down. Many of times I have crawled like Spider-Man on top of boxes, thinking the ones on the other side were better comics

 

It ends up being the same ratio of drek as the other level.

[rjpb]

I do believe a lot of comic shops have storage units filled with comics.

 

Yes many comic stores have long boxes stacked in cold storage units, those ones that look like a small garage. I have been to some, they open the door and the stacked long whites go straight up about 8 foot. Solid cubes of comics. You quickly becomes overwhelmed as you start to pull boxes down to go through them. You try to create a new level of boxes that are easier to get down. Many of times I have crawled like Spider-Man on top of boxes, thinking the ones on the other side were better comics

 

It ends up being the same ratio of drek as the other level.

 

I know a comic shop owner who had dozens of boxes of Copper - Modern comics in a storage facility he was given for free by someone if he would just take them out of his house. He was so busy running his store he hadn't even had time to look through them to see what he actually has in two years. I haven't asked him recently, but I doubt he's done it yet.

 

I'm sure there are scores of dealers around the country who have collectible books from the last 25 years buried among the drek, but just don't have the time to go through them.

[fastballspecial]

I frequent a lot of comic book shops as I travel around the East Coast for work. I always try to look for certain issues because I'd like to upgrade mine. But, as many comic shops as I find myself visiting, there are certain issues I never seem to find. These are some of the KEY issues (not necessarily first appearances) that I have always had trouble locating like:

Flash 323 and 324 -- the death of Reverse Flash

Captain America 319 and 320 -- The Scourge issues of Captain America

Captain America 300 -- anniversary issue

Iron Man 169 and 170 -- Jim Rhodes takes over as IM

Justice League of America 185 -- Darkseid Rising

Defenders 112-114 -- the Squadron Supreme three-parter

Amazing Spider-Man 248 -- The Kid Who Collected Spider-Man

New Mutants 18-21 -- the Demon Bear saga

Fantastic Four 243, 246-247, 258 -- all Byrne issues

Jonah Hex 90 and 91

Ghost Rider 73

Saga of the Swamp Thing 20 and 21 -- Alan Moore begins (I have NEVER found a copy of 20 in any store -- ever)

DC Comics Presents 47 and 52 -- first Masters of the Universe and first Ambush Bug

Doom Patrol 17-19 -- especially 18, the last Kupperberg issue before Grant Morrison took over

Superman 20-22 -- Byrne issues, Doom Patrol cameo, first return of Supergirl and Superman kills Phantom Zone villains

And, from the 1970s:

Flash 275 -- the death of Iris Allen

Justice League of America 139 and 168 -- Neal Adams cover and major battle with Secret Society of Super-Villains

 

I'm sure there are many more that I actively look for in shops and never find. Does anyone else have trouble finding certain issues?

 

From your list in my experiences there are a few on there that are pretty tough.

 

DC 47 I dont see ever unless on ebay and u will see a few copies.

 

Jonah Hex 90 and 91 are just plain tough.

 

Saw my first Swamp Thing 20 and 21 this year in high grade. If you need a copy PM and all check and see if they are still there.

 

The core titles wont be hard to find on ebay, but your obscure lower printed books like above are a little tougher especially if looking for high grade.

 

GR 70-81 are tough as well. Horror low print run and so on.

 

[nocutename]

I have found it impossible to find a single non-super hero Copper comic in any comic shop anywhere ever since I started collecting again. No TMNT vol. 1, no Fantagraphics Usagi, no Deadworld, Love And Rockets, Elflord, Elfquest, No Eclipse, NOW, not even any Silverwolf comics

 

A shop by me had gotten in the full run of Deadworld a few months back. I had picked up the trade and after reading it, wished I got the series as they had most of vol 1. So it is possible that a LCS in your area will purchase a collection with some more funky stuff.

 

I feel your pain though, try finding a CA Katy Keene at a LCS. I was thinking of starting up a Harvey collection from the 90's series but they are impossible to find. None of the shops in my area have them or ordered them at the time.