Dishonest Seller

[comicwiz]

I firmly believe I paid what I did for my TOS # 39 8.5 (GLOD) in part due to the fact that a certain percentage of the buying public won't even consider a Green Label book....so yes, the colored labels make a difference. Yet, I can resubmit the book and get a 7.0 Blue label, and it instantly doubles in value. Go figure.

 

I hear you. I ran into the same situation with a top census key UG book that was signed by the artist/creator on the front cover and received a green label. There are only 18 copies total on the census. When the book came up for auction many years ago, I didn't hesitate to buy it. The book didn't need CGC's Yellow SS or a Blue label to help me make up my mind on whether I wanted to own it, but apparently it did have an impact on what others thought they should bid on it because I felt at the the time I got it for a great price. Almost ten years later, it's still a top census book and with such an elusive signature on the border of the cover (not effecting artwork) I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

The real annoying rub of this debate to me is when you hear/see examples where a hack is trying to intentionally deceive and is rewarded with a blue label.

[Boozad]

What did he say that time?

 

By the way....to all you guys saying restored books are "harder to sell"...

 

No they're not.

 

I'll happily and gladly buy every single restored GA book anyone has, so long as the price is right.

 

Every single one. You have a restored Bats #6, for $20? I'll buy it and be ecstatic.

 

No, restored books are "harder to sell at the prices people want them to be worth." THAT'S the real issue.

 

There is a substantial market for restored books, so long as the price is right and restoration is disclosed.

 

 

BTW, I'm keep quoting RMA for one reason only....his sound reasoning shouldn't be missed just because half of the Board has him on Ignore.

 

 

I don't care what grinin thinks.

[PEP]

I need to get out of the WC more often.

[TheShadowKnows]

By the way....to all you guys saying restored books are "harder to sell"...

 

No they're not.

 

I'll happily and gladly buy every single restored GA book anyone has, so long as the price is right.

 

Every single one. You have a restored Bats #6, for $20? I'll buy it and be ecstatic.

 

No, restored books are "harder to sell at the prices people want them to be worth." THAT'S the real issue.

 

There is a substantial market for restored books, so long as the price is right and restoration is disclosed.

 

 

BTW, I'm keep quoting RMA for one reason only....his sound reasoning shouldn't be missed just because half of the Board has him on Ignore.

 

 

Hey!

 

It's not half....!

 

It's more like 2/3. (But the ones who matter don't have me on ignore anyways.)

 

[chrisco37]

 

But you realize how ridiculous this argument is, right? That we have conditioned the buyers and sellers of these books to think "BLUE GOOD, PURPLE BAD!!" to such a Pavlovian degree that we have this situation as it is now, instead of constantly and firmly trying to educate the market that not all "PLODs" are created equal.

 

Is the community THAT STUPID that they can't get beyond the way oversimplified color labels and understand the difference in quality, and thus value, of the restoration done? That they don't understand that "small amount of color touch on spine" and an SA/SP designation is farrrr superior to EA/EP with pieces replaced, spine reinforced, cover washed and pages bleached...?

 

No, it's just BLUE GOOD, PURPLE BAD.

 

This is one of the reasons why CGC should never have had colored labels to begin with, by the way....

 

Can't remember exactly when the "new labels" were presented (2005, I think). This is exactly what happened. People didn't want to be bothered with having to examine the label any further than "color" and "number".

 

The "new labels", IMO, were pretty good. Lots of info on them.

[Bosco685]

And it was, in fact, a Danger Girl #2 Ruby Red 9.8. Defending Bcruze, a known shiller who is mentally unstable, doesn't do you credit, Bossy.

 

I know, details aren't Bosco's strength.

 

(thumbs u

RepeatMindlessAbreaction, don't ya hate when you're wrong? Doesn't it just pain ya?

 

So, in addition to studying about third-world countries before blasting off your yap, this taught you what? Ohhhhhh, yeah. Do your research first!

 

[comicwiz]

[RockMyAmadeus]

And it was, in fact, a Danger Girl #2 Ruby Red 9.8. Defending Bcruze, a known shiller who is mentally unstable, doesn't do you credit, Bossy.

 

I know, details aren't Bosco's strength.

 

(thumbs u

RepeatMindlessAbreaction, don't ya hate when you're wrong? Doesn't it just pain ya?

 

So, in addition to studying about third-world countries before blasting off your yap, this taught you what? Ohhhhhh, yeah. Do your research first!

 

 

 

I was, of course, referring to the the $5,000 Danger Girl #2 Ruby Red....but you're right, it was, in fact, the Danger Girl #1 CHROMIUM (not Platinum as you stated) that Bobby was hawking.

 

Seems details are neither of our strengths today, eh Bossy?

 

 

Keep that one. It's one of the few times you'll get it from me.

 

(thumbs u

[chrisco37]

 

But you realize how ridiculous this argument is, right? That we have conditioned the buyers and sellers of these books to think "BLUE GOOD, PURPLE BAD!!" to such a Pavlovian degree that we have this situation as it is now, instead of constantly and firmly trying to educate the market that not all "PLODs" are created equal.

 

Is the community THAT STUPID that they can't get beyond the way oversimplified color labels and understand the difference in quality, and thus value, of the restoration done? That they don't understand that "small amount of color touch on spine" and an SA/SP designation is farrrr superior to EA/EP with pieces replaced, spine reinforced, cover washed and pages bleached...?

 

No, it's just BLUE GOOD, PURPLE BAD.

 

This is one of the reasons why CGC should never have had colored labels to begin with, by the way....

 

Can't remember exactly when the "new labels" were presented (2005, I think). This is exactly what happened. People didn't want to be bothered with having to examine the label any further than "color" and "number".

 

The "new labels", IMO, were pretty good. Lots of info on them.

 

Yes, I quoted myself....anyway, found the thread where we discussed the switch to "all blue". Here's my post on the "new label" after seeing the prototype at the CGC Forum Dinner in B'more:

 

Here's the details that I recall from this past weekend (yes, I've seen the new labels):

 

There will only be 2 label colors: Blue and Yellow (signature).

 

The labels will be identified either: UNIVERSAL, QUALIFIED, and APPARENT. This will be across the top of the label where they normally are.

 

The Universal Book will remain the same as always. Same grade scale, same look.

 

The Qualified Books will be the same as when they were in Green slabs. Just different color.

 

The new Blue APPARENT Grade will be as follows:

 

The Grade will appear as always. This will be the standard apparent Grade we have been used to. Underneath that there will be a new Resto/Conservation Grade.

It will not be as large as the regular grade (really the only problem I have with the new label).

 

As Scott noted, 10 will be the best (least amount) and 1 the worst (most amount) to keep things uniform. There will not be the .2, .5 gradations (ie. you will not see a 9.2, 8.5 etc... "resto grade"). Instead there will be 3 subsets: e, a , p (I may have it slightly mixed up as I didn't take notes).

 

Grades will be somthing like this:

Overall Grade: 9.2

Resto/Conserv: 8-e

 

The resto/conservation notes will go in the same place as always. Steve also said that CGC is going to try and make a differentiation between Restoration and Conservation.

 

Restoration will include those items that are only to improve the aesthetic appearance of the book like color touch.

 

Conservation will include those items which attempt to preserve the integrity of the book like tear seals.

 

Dry cleaning and non dis-assembly pressing are still not considered resto/conserv. by CGC. These will still get the UNIVERSAL label.

 

If Trimming has occured, it will be noted in 3 places. Underneath the grade, where the resto/grading comments appear, and in the place usually reserved for Pedigree designation.

 

Hope that helps clarify the discussion up.

 

Some people liked it, some people hated it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

(Of course, I have no idea where his "third world countries" comes from, and he needs the Jeffro Refresher Course™, but who's counting. )

[Bosco685]

Keep that one. It's one of the few times you'll get it from me.

 

(thumbs u

3 in my favor, dRaMAqueen.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Keep that one. It's one of the few times you'll get it from me.

 

(thumbs u

3 in my favor, dRaMAqueen.

 

 

 

No problem. I'll just go buy a Danger Girl #1 Platinum, and it will soothe my aching pride...well...it would if they existed, that is...

 

[Bosco685]

but who's counting

Sorry - had a business call to attend to.

 

You do - repeatedly through this thread!

 

 

That's 4.

 

[500Club]

No, restored books are "harder to sell at the prices people want them to be worth." THAT'S the real issue.

 

There is a substantial market for restored books, so long as the price is right and restoration is disclosed.

 

This.

[500Club]

However, I do have a problem with 'preserving the value'. CGC should not be here to 'preserve the value', but rather clearly and unambiguously state facts. The market then determines value.

 

And this.

[VintageComics]

However, I do have a problem with 'preserving the value'. CGC should not be here to 'preserve the value', but rather clearly and unambiguously state facts. The market then determines value.

 

And this.

 

The problem is that CGC's decision to place the books into different holders affected the books in an inverse relationship, and not because the restored books were any different (same restored books, previously raw, now in purple labels), but because they were stigmatized.

 

 

[blazingbob]

The same amount of explaining has to take place when a restored book is raw versus it being in a holder. Difference is you can show a person the work raw versus what the label states. Hopefully the restoration paperwork (that somehow always disappears) comes along with the book.

 

You can't tell me that this type of sale is a smooth and easy one.

 

Imagine it going like this

 

Customer "Is the book restored"

 

Feel free to insert "answer here". Well, humada, humada, not according to my sole discretion but because everybody who sold it before me said that dot of color touch isn't really there I believe that it's not really there.

 

Feel free to insert "CGC Answer here". Customer "Is the book restored".

 

Well, Sole discretion states that technically this is a blue label that normally means unrestored but in this case it isn't.

 

Turn around, put book back into box or back on wall.

 

Take another bite out of Big Mac.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Understood.

 

(thumbs u

 

The problem is trying to convey a bunch of info to a consumer, before you lose their attention span.

 

 

[HOTFLIPS]

The same amount of explaining has to take place when a restored book is raw versus it being in a holder. Difference is you can show a person the work raw versus what the label states. Hopefully the restoration paperwork (that somehow always disappears) comes along with the book.

 

You can't tell me that this type of sale is a smooth and easy one.

 

Imagine it going like this

 

Customer "Is the book restored"

 

Feel free to insert "answer here". Well, humada, humada, not according to my sole discretion but because everybody who sold it before me said that dot of color touch isn't really there I believe that it's not really there.

 

Feel free to insert "CGC Answer here". Customer "Is the book restored".

 

Well, Sole discretion states that technically this is a blue label that normally means unrestored but in this case it isn't.

 

Turn around, put book back into box or back on wall.

 

Take another chicken wing from Hooters.

 

 

Fixed that for ya Bob.

[lizards2]

Understood.

 

(thumbs u

 

The problem is trying to convey a bunch of info to a consumer, before you lose their attention span.

 

Can you give me the Cliff's Notes version, Roy?