Disclosure - Yes Or No?

[ashrael]

Yes!

[comicwiz]

If it was pressed then placed in a slab, who cares. If it was pressed and passed around raw, then yes.

...i must be missing your point?

 

I am just saying if you press it and slab it once then it really doesn't hurt the book. What is the chance of it being opened again and getting damaged.

 

I know if I pressed it and kept it raw I would disclose because the new owner may end up doing it down the road and it could have an impact, to much pressing over the same area is bad.

 

Books can, and have been pressed more than once. The damage debate has solid points on both sides of the argument. I guess where I have trouble with the whole disclosure topic is that I have no control over what happened with the book prior to it coming into my possession. So if pro-active disclosure means saying all books I have may have been pressed, and that makes the anti-pressing side happy, I would tell them to assume all books are pressed before they should expect people to use a blanket disclosure approach.

 

What about people who take a raw, unmanipulated book, press it, slab it and immediately sell it here?

 

Would that not deserve/require pro-active disclosure?

 

Because most of the 'anti-pressing' side has agreed that it will also accept 'this book has not to my knowledge been pressed' if that is genuinely the case.

 

Fair enough, but your greatly oversimplifying "anti-pressings" acceptance, because it's quite evident, no matter how the listing is disclaimed, that they've made/formed their own opinions and suspicions (and quite often make it openly known) as soon as they see a book they deem impressive.

 

If the aim is to make the environment more amenable to pro-actively disclose, make the environment more friendly, and less circumspect, on people's approach to disclosure.

[Flaming_Telepath]

If it was pressed then placed in a slab, who cares. If it was pressed and passed around raw, then yes.

...i must be missing your point?

 

I am just saying if you press it and slab it once then it really doesn't hurt the book. What is the chance of it being opened again and getting damaged.

 

I know if I pressed it and kept it raw I would disclose because the new owner may end up doing it down the road and it could have an impact, to much pressing over the same area is bad.

 

Books can, and have been pressed more than once. The damage debate has solid points on both sides of the argument. I guess where I have trouble with the whole disclosure topic is that I have no control over what happened with the book prior to it coming into my possession. So if pro-active disclosure means saying all books I have may have been pressed, and that makes the anti-pressing side happy, I would tell them to assume all books are pressed before they should expect people to use a blanket disclosure approach.

 

What about people who take a raw, unmanipulated book, press it, slab it and immediately sell it here?

 

Would that not deserve/require pro-active disclosure?

 

Because most of the 'anti-pressing' side has agreed that it will also accept 'this book has not to my knowledge been pressed' if that is genuinely the case.

 

Fair enough, but your greatly oversimplifying "anti-pressings" acceptance, because it's quite evident, no matter how the listing is disclaimed, that they've made/formed their own opinions and suspicions (and quite often make it openly known) as soon as they see a book they deem impressive.

 

If the aim is to make the environment more amenable to pro-actively disclose, make the environment more friendly, and less circumspect, on people's approach to disclosure.

 

The problem, Joseph, is that a number of sellers are known to be selling books that they personally have pressed/have had pressed without disclosure in the Marketplace, thus creating in large part the culture.

 

I'd like to see that disappear...along with a more transparent, honest atmosphere being encouraged. But that's just me.

[8milemax]

I have seen people here that have posted that the books to be pressed only to have anti pressers make a smart remark. So tell me why would someone disclose that the book has been pressed? If the anti pressers wouldn't say anything and derail a sells thread then yes disclose

[FlyingDonut]

Nick..... the search button is your friend.

 

 

[Davenport]

I think at this point it's been flipped. A seller would do best disclosing a holdered book hasn't been manipulated.

 

With the CGC greenlight for non-additive treatments, being holdered is the simplest tell that book may've been altered for up-pricing. If that's not the case for a particular offering, a seller would be wise to trumpet that info imho.

[comicwiz]

If it was pressed then placed in a slab, who cares. If it was pressed and passed around raw, then yes.

...i must be missing your point?

 

I am just saying if you press it and slab it once then it really doesn't hurt the book. What is the chance of it being opened again and getting damaged.

 

I know if I pressed it and kept it raw I would disclose because the new owner may end up doing it down the road and it could have an impact, to much pressing over the same area is bad.

 

Books can, and have been pressed more than once. The damage debate has solid points on both sides of the argument. I guess where I have trouble with the whole disclosure topic is that I have no control over what happened with the book prior to it coming into my possession. So if pro-active disclosure means saying all books I have may have been pressed, and that makes the anti-pressing side happy, I would tell them to assume all books are pressed before they should expect people to use a blanket disclosure approach.

 

What about people who take a raw, unmanipulated book, press it, slab it and immediately sell it here?

 

Would that not deserve/require pro-active disclosure?

 

Because most of the 'anti-pressing' side has agreed that it will also accept 'this book has not to my knowledge been pressed' if that is genuinely the case.

 

Fair enough, but your greatly oversimplifying "anti-pressings" acceptance, because it's quite evident, no matter how the listing is disclaimed, that they've made/formed their own opinions and suspicions (and quite often make it openly known) as soon as they see a book they deem impressive.

 

If the aim is to make the environment more amenable to pro-actively disclose, make the environment more friendly, and less circumspect, on people's approach to disclosure.

 

The problem, Joseph, is that a number of sellers are known to be selling books that they personally have pressed/have had pressed without disclosure in the Marketplace, thus creating in large part the culture.

 

I'd like to see that disappear...along with a more transparent, honest atmosphere being encouraged. But that's just me.

 

Nick, when I was in my mid-20's, my health was my number one priority. I was training 7 days a week, and I won't go into specifics on my achievements. Suffice it to say that no matter what I told people, they automatically assumed I was using steroids. If they had asked, I would have told them that my entire lifestyle revolved around training. My nutritional approach meant preparing for the following day's weight training regimen. Currently, I'm lucky if I could prepare a meal a half hour in advance of lunch or supper. I sacrificed a great deal of my social life (went to bed early, did absolutely no drinking, etc.) to achieve my goals. But people didn't want to hear about this side of dedicated training, all they cared to do was spread rumours about how I accomplished my goals.

 

I would have liked for that rumour mongering to have disappeared, but ultimately, I had to shut it out and stuck to the core philosophies that allowed me to achieve my personal goals. So yes, I know something about how culture influences, shapes and sometimes distorts the truth, and ultimately, the way it effects our ability to think independently. But this experience, if anything, has taught me to accept the fact that I can't change what people think or want to believe. Taking the rationale of this experience to the pressing debate, if you have a problem with the culture and trading post of deceit that's erected itself in our community, then you're certainly welcome to address it in whichever way you please. But this hobby is a pastime for me, and outside of me collecting in fringe markets like undergrounds and books no one cares to press, or that cannot be CGC graded, there is very little else I can do to separate myself from the motivation of greed from the hobby.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I think at this point it's been flipped. A seller would do best disclosing a holdered book hasn't been manipulated.

 

That was tried.

 

And the seller was accused of pandering to the pressers.

[Davenport]

Pressing seems to be back in vogue this week, so let's have a poll!

Wow, a clarion call must've gone out for Team Derail to rush in to action. How long has it been since we've seen that?

 

Congrats on kicking a hornet's nest.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Here's a note: if you truely believe in Disclosure, feel free to buy something from a person who actively Discloses, thereby supporting the person who is doing the right thing.

 

Nothing that irks me more then reading a comment about "supporting someone who doesn't Press books" while they completely bypass a "known presser's books" even if they are offering Unpressed material.

 

To me, it seems that many folks use Disclosure as a form of Scarlet Letter a seller has to wear, regardless of whether the said seller offers Pressed books or those that are completely untouched.

 

Put your money where your mouth is, and all that.

 

 

 

[FlyingDonut]

So of the three polls, this one and the two I bumped ( ), it looks like we run roughly 68-32 in favor of open disclosure, with the trend lines being consistent.

[skypinkblu]

Yes, if you KNOW it was pressed, you should absolutely positively disclose it, without asking. Not disclosing deliberately would mean you would think there was something to hide.

 

That caveat emptor thing is a carnival game, not what I would expect from the people I trust on here.

 

It really boggles my mind the rationalizations that people use to hide something that might bother someone else.

 

That being said, Joey took a very annoying moisture wrinkle out of my Phantom Lady 17, he did a wonderful job. I'm keeping the book ...but if I get really old, forget and someone in my family decides to sell it, I'm disclosing the pressing now.

 

[FlyingDonut]

Pressing seems to be back in vogue this week, so let's have a poll!

Wow, a clarion call must've gone out for Team Derail to rush in to action. How long has it been since we've seen that?

 

Congrats on kicking a hornet's nest.

 

I'm assuming you're meaning ME on "Team Derail" since I bumped the other polls? Seriously? Since I agree with Nick, I'm not sure where you're coming from.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Here's a note: if you truely believe in Disclosure, feel free to buy something from a person who actively Discloses, thereby supporting the person who is doing the right thing.

 

Nothing that irks me more then reading a comment about "supporting someone who doesn't Press books" while they completely bypass a "known presser's books" even if they are offering Unpressed material.

 

To me, it seems that many folks use Disclosure as a form of Scarlet Letter a seller has to wear, regardless of whether the said seller offers Pressed books or those that are completely untouched.

 

Put your money where your mouth is, and all that.

 

 

 

So a presser should only display openness and honesty if anti-pressers are buying his books?

[Flaming_Telepath]

So of the three polls, this one and the two I bumped ( ), it looks like we run roughly 68-32 in favor of open disclosure, with the trend lines being consistent.

 

 

 

Actually, given the amount of noobs we've had lately, it's not a bad thing to take another snap-shot.

[FlyingDonut]

Fair enough. Since I agree with your basic point, I think its good to see trend lines over time.

[Davenport]

Pressing seems to be back in vogue this week, so let's have a poll!

Wow, a clarion call must've gone out for Team Derail to rush in to action. How long has it been since we've seen that?

 

Congrats on kicking a hornet's nest.

 

I'm assuming you're meaning ME on "Team Derail" since I bumped the other polls? Seriously? Since I agree with Nick, I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Yeah, I probably reacted too soon. I had this WTF? moment when I couldn't find the poll I just voted in. I thought a tsunami of bumps-to-confuse was headed our way.

 

Apologies .

[FlyingDonut]

Pressing seems to be back in vogue this week, so let's have a poll!

Wow, a clarion call must've gone out for Team Derail to rush in to action. How long has it been since we've seen that?

 

Congrats on kicking a hornet's nest.

 

I'm assuming you're meaning ME on "Team Derail" since I bumped the other polls? Seriously? Since I agree with Nick, I'm not sure where you're coming from.

Yeah, I probably reacted to soon. I had this WTF? moment when I couldn't find the poll I just voted in. I thought a tsunami of bumps-to-confuse was headed our way.

 

Apologies .

 

[seanfingh]

 

I say yes to proactively disclosing, for sure here on the Boards, because so many people are concerned. I have also gone so far as to say where I purchased the books so that people can make their own judgments as to the likelihood it may have been smooshed, even if I bought it slabbed.

 

But for those of you who care, you should be asking the question, every time for every book. To not do so is tantamount to a vegetarian walking around a cafeteria with a blindfold on, jamming food in his mouth and then complaining that he was served meat.

[comicwiz]

So of the three polls, this one and the two I bumped ( ), it looks like we run roughly 68-32 in favor of open disclosure, with the trend lines being consistent.

 

 

 

Actually, given the amount of noobs we've had lately, it's not a bad thing to take another snap-shot.

 

So, how does polling promote the kind of atmosphere that does away with the thread-crapping and circumspect sentiment? I'll give you the token need to disclose (and I've addressed it by suggesting a solution can be found with a blanket disclosure statement).

 

But I think it's far more problematic to want to promote an atmosphere of encouragement to disclose on these boards when you're dividing camps with polls - especially when the only thing this will lead to is more division and unruly behaviour by folks that can't help themselves when it comes to sharing their own opinions and suspicions.

 

How about a probation list for anyone that starts this kind of nonsense in the marketplace? Both ways - for non-disclosure types, and people with a penchant to thread krap?