Disclosure - Yes Or No?

[Comicopolis]

'community'

 

 

Just because you've never been part of one don't dismiss the whole idea out of hand.

 

Smarter than the average eBay user...but not by much.

 

 

 

You are getting better though.

 

I could never be 1/100th the genius you think you are....

 

 

The more you admit your own failings the happier you will be. Keep up the good work (thumbs u

[Jeffreykli]

I voted yes, and I actively disclose if I know that a book has been pressed, whether raw or slabbed. I even disclose on eBay. What's the big deal about getting a couple of questions and actually educating people?!? :shrug:

[Comicopolis]

I voted yes, and I actively disclose if I know that a book has been pressed, whether raw or slabbed. I even disclose on eBay. What's the big deal about getting a couple of questions and actually educating people?!? :shrug:

 

For some, apparently, it is.

[comicdonna]

I voted yes, and I actively disclose if I know that a book has been pressed, whether raw or slabbed. I even disclose on eBay. What's the big deal about getting a couple of questions and actually educating people?!? :shrug:

 

For some, apparently, it is.

I think the biggest reason is fear of a book selling for less is pressing is disclosed.

[Comicopolis]

I voted yes, and I actively disclose if I know that a book has been pressed, whether raw or slabbed. I even disclose on eBay. What's the big deal about getting a couple of questions and actually educating people?!? :shrug:

 

For some, apparently, it is.

I think the biggest reason is fear of a book selling for less is pressing is disclosed.

 

My understanding, coming from what I've read on these boards is either:

 

a) most don't care if it has been pressed so will buy anyway

b) even more don't know what pressing is and wouldn't understand it even if a seller could be bothered to explain it to them

 

So sale price should only be affected if people in the know already who don't like manipulated books are informed of the pressing.

[Boozad]

So sale price should only be affected if people in the know already and don't like manipulated books are informed of the pressing.

 

Wouldn't that just result in a no sale?

[Comicopolis]

So sale price should only be affected if people in the know already and don't like manipulated books are informed of the pressing.

 

Wouldn't that just result in a no sale?

 

Yes - affecting the sale price in the worst way

[Boozad]

So sale price should only be affected if people in the know already and don't like manipulated books are informed of the pressing.

 

Wouldn't that just result in a no sale?

 

Yes - affecting the sale price in the worst way

 

 

Seriously though, if people who don't like pressed books aren't going to buy a pressed book, and the people who don't care or who don't know will buy the book, I just don't see the price being affected in any way at all.

[comicwiz]

To everyone that voted no to disclosure I ask why ?

 

Why not disclose ? (forget moderns anything on ebay as RMA pointed out in another thread) but why not disclose high grade comics on here ?

 

This is eerily reminiscent of a boardie, who has since fallen to disrepute, and his notion of different grading standards for eBay.

I'm referring to pressing. I say yes to disclosure for pressing but I do understand not disclosing on ebay for some sellers not disclosing because of the amount of uneducated people out there that will be asking stupid questions.

 

Anyways. Why not full disclosure on here ? for everything ? Most people on here know what pressing is by now.

 

You know what is amazing? The problems go away if you assume that people who care are going to ask. And then you tell the truth. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

 

You know what is even more amazing?

 

The problems and the PMs go away if you simply pro-actively and truthfully disclose.

 

Which is why I completely support it on here. SS was talking about the problems of putting a proactive statement on Ebay. Before he was backhandedly pilloried by comicwiz, whose ability to be holier than thou could likely be classified as a Superior mutation.

 

Let's forget this nonsense of not needing to disclose for post-80's comics and the shots against me - what are you implying? In plain language. Are you good with not disclosing on eBay?

 

First off, I have never sold a comic on Ebay. But if I did, I would not put a pressing disclosure in an Ebay listing. I would tell anyone that asks me about the book everything I knew about the book.

 

And I'm the one that gets the "kick me I'm superior" sign taped on my back.

[Comicopolis]

So sale price should only be affected if people in the know already and don't like manipulated books are informed of the pressing.

 

Wouldn't that just result in a no sale?

 

Yes - affecting the sale price in the worst way

 

 

Seriously though, if people who don't like pressed books aren't going to buy a pressed book, and the people who don't care or who don't know will buy the book, I just don't see the price being affected in any way at all.

 

That was the point I was trying, miserably, to make

[Boozad]

So sale price should only be affected if people in the know already and don't like manipulated books are informed of the pressing.

 

Wouldn't that just result in a no sale?

 

Yes - affecting the sale price in the worst way

 

 

Seriously though, if people who don't like pressed books aren't going to buy a pressed book, and the people who don't care or who don't know will buy the book, I just don't see the price being affected in any way at all.

 

That was the point I was trying, miserably, to make

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

First off, I have never sold a comic on Ebay. But if I did, I would not put a pressing disclosure in an Ebay listing. I would tell anyone that asks me about the book everything I knew about the book.

 

And I'm the one that gets the "kick me I'm superior" sign taped on my back.

 

How does that indicate that I believe myself superior to anyone? The main thing that I differ from some people on is that I believe people should ask about things that concern them and not always rely upon the generosity of strangers. I emphatically believe that one should responsibly seek out information that is important to one before making this type of purchase.

 

I have decided to affirmatively disclose when selling here because it is so important to so many here. I wouldn't on Ebay (which, let us recall, is a hypothetical for me) because I have never heard anyone, anywhere speak about pressing except here. And, as always, if someone asked me about it, I would give them all of the information that I had.

[comicwiz]

 

First off, I have never sold a comic on Ebay. But if I did, I would not put a pressing disclosure in an Ebay listing. I would tell anyone that asks me about the book everything I knew about the book.

 

And I'm the one that gets the "kick me I'm superior" sign taped on my back.

 

How does that indicate that I believe myself superior to anyone? The main thing that I differ from some people on is that I believe people should ask about things that concern them and not always rely upon the generosity of strangers. I emphatically believe that one should responsibly seek out information that is important to one before making this type of purchase.

 

I have decided to affirmatively disclose when selling here because it is so important to so many here. I wouldn't on Ebay (which, let us recall, is a hypothetical for me) because I have never heard anyone, anywhere speak about pressing except here. And, as always, if someone asked me about it, I would give them all of the information that I had.

 

It's an assumption on your part to believe that people outside of this community don't know about pressing. I have personally fielded questions/inquiries on eBay auctions about pressing, so there are definitely people in the loop outside of the boards.

 

I've seen the use of logos/badges on auction descriptions for those that can't find the right words to convey the practice, and that works well to: a) divert any people who frown upon the practice; b) educate anyone by way of inquiry.

 

After all, what is the point of having a poll, and insisting on disclosure if there isn't any thought or recognition that awareness needs to follow a sequential process in order for new entrants to learn the ropes. This learning process doesn't happen in a vacuum and certainly doesn't do anything more than fester and boil in this bubble we call the CGC boards.

 

What's next? Store owners not bothering to disclose in their shops, at conventions, or their online stores because their customers don't know about pressing, and have never voted in a CGC thread?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

This whole things stupido. You are either upfront, or you arent. If you arent, thats up to you. But I consider it in poor form. Coincidentally thats my belief, just like others believe the dont ask dont tell policy is ok.

[seanfingh]

 

First off, I have never sold a comic on Ebay. But if I did, I would not put a pressing disclosure in an Ebay listing. I would tell anyone that asks me about the book everything I knew about the book.

 

And I'm the one that gets the "kick me I'm superior" sign taped on my back.

 

How does that indicate that I believe myself superior to anyone? The main thing that I differ from some people on is that I believe people should ask about things that concern them and not always rely upon the generosity of strangers. I emphatically believe that one should responsibly seek out information that is important to one before making this type of purchase.

 

I have decided to affirmatively disclose when selling here because it is so important to so many here. I wouldn't on Ebay (which, let us recall, is a hypothetical for me) because I have never heard anyone, anywhere speak about pressing except here. And, as always, if someone asked me about it, I would give them all of the information that I had.

 

It's an assumption on your part to believe that people outside of this community don't know about pressing. I have personally fielded questions/inquiries on eBay auctions about pressing, so there are definitely people in the loop outside of the boards.

 

That is not an assumption that I have made. I said I have never heard anyone speak of pressing except here.

 

I've seen the use of logos/badges on auction descriptions for those that can't find the right words to convey the practice, and that works well to: a) divert any people who frown upon the practice; b) educate anyone by way of inquiry.

 

Do you have a link to an Ebay auction with a pressing disclosure badge that I could check out?

 

What's next? Store owners not bothering to disclose in their shops, at conventions, or their online stores because they're customers don't know about pressing, and have never voted in a CGC thread?

 

That wouldn't bother me. People should ask if they want to know. What concerns me a lot more is whether the answers that they get would be honest.

[COI]

If it was pressed then placed in a slab, who cares. If it was pressed and passed around raw, then yes.

...i must be missing your point?

 

I am just saying if you press it and slab it once then it really doesn't hurt the book. What is the chance of it being opened again and getting damaged.

 

I know if I pressed it and kept it raw I would disclose because the new owner may end up doing it down the road and it could have an impact, to much pressing over the same area is bad.

 

Books can, and have been pressed more than once. The damage debate has solid points on both sides of the argument. I guess where I have trouble with the whole disclosure topic is that I have no control over what happened with the book prior to it coming into my possession. So if pro-active disclosure means saying all books I have may have been pressed, and that makes the anti-pressing side happy, I would tell them to assume all books are pressed before they should expect people to use a blanket disclosure approach.

 

What about people who take a raw, unmanipulated book, press it, slab it and immediately sell it here?

 

Would that not deserve/require pro-active disclosure?

 

Because most of the 'anti-pressing' side has agreed that it will also accept 'this book has not to my knowledge been pressed' if that is genuinely the case.

 

Fair enough, but your greatly oversimplifying "anti-pressings" acceptance, because it's quite evident, no matter how the listing is disclaimed, that they've made/formed their own opinions and suspicions (and quite often make it openly known) as soon as they see a book they deem impressive.

 

If the aim is to make the environment more amenable to pro-actively disclose, make the environment more friendly, and less circumspect, on people's approach to disclosure.

 

The problem, Joseph, is that a number of sellers are known to be selling books that they personally have pressed/have had pressed without disclosure in the Marketplace, thus creating in large part the culture.

 

I'd like to see that disappear...along with a more transparent, honest atmosphere being encouraged. But that's just me.

 

Nick, when I was in my mid-20's, my health was my number one priority. I was training 7 days a week, and I won't go into specifics on my achievements. Suffice it to say that no matter what I told people, they automatically assumed I was using steroids. If they had asked, I would have told them that my entire lifestyle revolved around training. My nutritional approach meant preparing for the following day's weight training regimen. Currently, I'm lucky if I could prepare a meal a half hour in advance of lunch or supper. I sacrificed a great deal of my social life (went to bed early, did absolutely no drinking, etc.) to achieve my goals. But people didn't want to hear about this side of dedicated training, all they cared to do was spread rumours about how I accomplished my goals.

 

I would have liked for that rumour mongering to have disappeared, but ultimately, I had to shut it out and stuck to the core philosophies that allowed me to achieve my personal goals. So yes, I know something about how culture influences, shapes and sometimes distorts the truth, and ultimately, the way it effects our ability to think independently. But this experience, if anything, has taught me to accept the fact that I can't change what people think or want to believe. Taking the rationale of this experience to the pressing debate, if you have a problem with the culture and trading post of deceit that's erected itself in our community, then you're certainly welcome to address it in whichever way you please. But this hobby is a pastime for me, and outside of me collecting in fringe markets like undergrounds and books no one cares to press, or that cannot be CGC graded, there is very little else I can do to separate myself from the motivation of greed from the hobby.

 

You da man, Joseph.

[fantastic_four]

As I have seen it...before CGC, resto didn't seem to have that huge an impact. There were not so many people chasing 9.8's, grades were simpler. Fair, Good, VG, Fine, NM.

 

Resto doesn't have that huge an impact on the market today, either. It had a much more significant impact on the market prior to CGC however because it severely depressed the top end of the market; people had to hedge how much they were willing to pay based upon the unknown possibility of restoration. People were trimming, color touching, tear sealing, and cleaning in the 1990s like they're pressing today. If you weren't buying $500 and up books you didn't notice resto at all, which is still true today unless you're reading these forums or happen to read a PLOD label. The risk of restoration being all but removed from the high-end market is the single biggest factor that led to the explosion in prices on those books once CGC hit the hobby.

 

The other explosion, as you point out, is the 9.6 and up market on Bronze and newer books, which you're right, CGC largely created themselves.

[fantastic_four]

I still think in the long term, pressing is going to hurt the hobby. Conservation, or restoration, it has altered the book in a un-natural and significant way. It should be disclosed.

 

Which element of pressing is at all unnatural? It's the fact that the elements of pressing ARE natural that leads to CGC being unable to detect it being done.

[fantastic_four]

Here's a note: if you truely believe in Disclosure, feel free to buy something from a person who actively Discloses, thereby supporting the person who is doing the right thing.

 

Nothing that irks me more then reading a comment about "supporting someone who doesn't Press books" while they completely bypass a "known presser's books" even if they are offering Unpressed material.

 

To me, it seems that many folks use Disclosure as a form of Scarlet Letter a seller has to wear, regardless of whether the said seller offers Pressed books or those that are completely untouched.

 

Put your money where your mouth is, and all that.

 

 

 

So a presser should only display openness and honesty if anti-pressers are buying his books?

 

Really, is THAT what you got out of my statement?

 

He's not going to be able to get what you want him to get out of your statement...he's feeling dirty all over after having given joeypost praise this week. It seems he figured that starting a brand new, full-blown pressing thread controversy jamboree would be his penance.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I still think in the long term, pressing is going to hurt the hobby. Conservation, or restoration, it has altered the book in a un-natural and significant way. It should be disclosed.

 

Which element of pressing is at all unnatural? It's the fact that the elements of pressing ARE natural that leads to CGC being unable to detect it being done.

 

Well, to be pedantic...

 

The materials used in pressing are natural...heat, moisture, pressure.

 

However, the process isn't natural.

 

We thought the world was flat. We thought man could never fly.

 

Maybe one day there will be the means (that we can't even conceive of right now) of identifying which books have gone through an unnatural process and which haven't.

 

Not that I think there are laboratories currenly full of geeks trying to solve this problem.