SS Books Versus Universal Books - Points Awarded

[Boozad]

The thread on the registry over in General prompted me to post this, but it got lost as it wasn't totally on topic with the general gist of the thread. But it's something I'd like to hear a collective opinion on, and moreso CGC's reason for awarding the points the way they do.

I'll also say up front that this is no way an attack on the SS program whatsoever, I own a couple of SS books myself and aim to own a few more in the future.

 

So here's the post:

 

One thing that I really do not like in the registry (when looking at it from a competitive angle), is that SS books are awarded more points than Universal labels. Now I'm not bashing SS at all, I own a couple and will pick up a select few more along the way, but primarily I collect Universal labels.

Now SS/Universal is a matter of personal taste and choice, so why are SS books awarded more points than a Universal label? Say I wanted to compete in, say, Batman 'Death In The Family' and I land four beautiful 9.8 copies of #426, #427, #428 and #429 in Universal labels. Unless anybody magics a 9.9 of any of the books, I should be joint top of the census. But if somebody gets their 9.8s signed by Mike Mignola they will beat me on points solely through personal preference.

I would prefer a Universal set but CGC are basically telling me that my books are not as good as the SS books.

 

Again, I'm not knocking SS at all, I do have some SS goals myself, but I just don't think a 9.8 SS should be awarded more points than a Universal 9.8. That makes competing a non-issue for Universal collectors.

 

I'll include a poll for the people who won't be posting in here, but I genuinely would like to hear people's thoughts on this.

[seanfingh]

 

You really do get knocked down, and then get up again . . .

[BroccoliDiesel]

I agree that it makes it not fair for Uni collectors that SS books are always gonna one up them. Im with you there Booz, but I do feel that my SS books are superior to my Unis because of the extra time and money getting that book made semi unique. Maybe in the future there will be seperate sets for SS books.

[Boozad]

You really do get knocked down, and then get up again . . .

 

You're never gonna keep me down.

[Boozad]

I do feel that my SS books are superior to my Unis because of the extra time and money getting that book made semi unique.

 

See, there's the bone of contention for me. I have a couple of SS books coming back to me that I've waited years for a sig by the creator, I nearly pissed my pants when I found out he was doing a signing. But even though they are going to be very cherished books, I don't see why they should have a points advantage over someone who has a Universal label of the same book.

People who do SS whether it be a handful, moderately or completely do it through choice. People who collect blue labels do it through choice. Why should there be any dinstinction between the two?

 

 

[Silent Master]

I was always surprised that CGC doesn't award MORE points for SS. I think it's huge to get the creative team to sign some of these books!

[Boozad]

I was always surprised that CGC doesn't award MORE points for SS. I think it's huge to get the creative team to sign some of these books!

 

While I would agree that some creators sigs truly enhance a book, not everybody does. So why penalise them just because of their tastes?

[cheetah]

I don't have a problem with SS books getting a few more points than universal. Getting a book through the signature process greatly increases it's chance for damage making getting a 9.8 even more challenging.

 

If it is a big source of contention, just ask Gemma to make a set specifically for SS copies. Or better yet, get the artist to do a head sketch on a copy and slab it for a 9.8. That's pretty cool to me.

[Boozad]

It's not really a bone of contention (although I'm probably doing a damn goos job of making it look like it), it basically started as an observation and my line of thinking just grew. Some Universal collectors may be put out by it, I just wanted to get a general concensus on it.

 

I'd never expect a seperate SS set for anything either to be honest.

[Cimm]

Signature Series books are worth more points because they are harder to get, and more expensive. I don't see any reason for "contention". For those that prefer Universal labeled books, I think it is a bit like those that prefer books that are 9.2/9.4 over those that are 9.6/9.8... it is simply not worth the time, effort or money to get the upgrade. But, it is still an upgrade, and the registry reflects this.

[Boozad]

But, it is still an upgrade, and the registry reflects this.

 

I'd have to disagree there. Like I said earlier it's all about personal taste, a lot of people think that getting signatures on a book is defacing it. Some people definitely think it's an upgrade, but you can't class it as one as it's not recognised as an upgrade more than an alternative for people who like signatures.

 

Of the books I own that have signatures I don't class any of them as upgraded, just that they have the verified signature of a creator I love on it.

[Cimm]

But, it is still an upgrade, and the registry reflects this.

 

I'd have to disagree there. Like I said earlier it's all about personal taste, a lot of people think that getting signatures on a book is defacing it. Some people definitely think it's an upgrade, but you can't class it as one as it's not ercognised as an upgrade more than an alternative for people who like signatures.

 

Of the books I own that have signatures I don't class any of them as upgraded, just that they have the verified signature of a creator I love on it.

 

I used the term "upgrade" only as a reflection of the added value/cost. SS books cost more to get, cost more to buy, and thus I believe the market as a whole views them as "better". This in no way reflects my personal opinion. I think some signatures are an enhancement, while others are a detraction, based purely on aesthetics... but the market doesn't seem to make the same distinction, and registry points seem to make arbitrary judgments based on the market value. Personal taste has very little to do with it, and probably shouldn't.

[LloydJBailey]

I personally consider them upgraded, for ME personally... BUT, you're right, it's just an opinion... so I really don't think they should score higher points for SS books.

 

But, it is still an upgrade, and the registry reflects this.

 

I'd have to disagree there. Like I said earlier it's all about personal taste, a lot of people think that getting signatures on a book is defacing it. Some people definitely think it's an upgrade, but you can't class it as one as it's not ercognised as an upgrade more than an alternative for people who like signatures.

 

Of the books I own that have signatures I don't class any of them as upgraded, just that they have the verified signature of a creator I love on it.

[mschmidt]

But, it is still an upgrade, and the registry reflects this.

 

I'd have to disagree there. Like I said earlier it's all about personal taste, a lot of people think that getting signatures on a book is defacing it. Some people definitely think it's an upgrade, but you can't class it as one as it's not ercognised as an upgrade more than an alternative for people who like signatures.

 

Of the books I own that have signatures I don't class any of them as upgraded, just that they have the verified signature of a creator I love on it.

 

I used the term "upgrade" only as a reflection of the added value/cost. SS books cost more to get, cost more to buy, and thus I believe the market as a whole views them as "better". This in no way reflects my personal opinion. I think some signatures are an enhancement, while others are a detraction, based purely on aesthetics... but the market doesn't seem to make the same distinction, and registry points seem to make arbitrary judgments based on the market value. Personal taste has very little to do with it, and probably shouldn't.

 

Well put - I definitely agree.

 

I'd personally be quite miffed if SS books were valued the same in the registry as blue label books - the market puts a premium on SS books, so it would make no sense that this wouldn't be factored into how high they score in the registry.

 

Now ... the fact that CGC doesn't reward double (triple, etc) cover books with more points is a complete mystery to me :shrug:

[Boozad]

I'd personally be quite miffed if SS books were valued the same in the registry as blue label books - the market puts a premium on SS books, so it would make no sense that this wouldn't be factored into how high they score in the registry.

 

Dollar value is far from representative of a lot of books point values in the registry though Michael. Some books that carry a large monetary premium don't score many points compared to other books of the same dollar value. Wouldn't this reasoning apply in that scenario too?

[Paratrooper]

You really do get knocked down, and then get up again . . .

 

That Chumbawamba album is actually surprisingly awesome, my favorite is the one that was in "Stigmata" ...Mary something or other.

[mschmidt]

I'd personally be quite miffed if SS books were valued the same in the registry as blue label books - the market puts a premium on SS books, so it would make no sense that this wouldn't be factored into how high they score in the registry.

 

Dollar value is far from representative of a lot of books point values in the registry though Michael. Some books that carry a large monetary premium don't score many points compared to other books of the same dollar value. Wouldn't this reasoning apply in that scenario too?

 

No, I don't think so, Gav.

 

Across the board, SS books command a premium over Universal books due to the perceived scarcity, difficulty and extra cost involved in getting them - this is not based on individual books (say an X-Men #94 vs an Incredible Hulk #181), nor on a series, but on the color of the slab as a whole.

 

You may personally think that a signature doesn't add any value to a book (or that it even detracts from the value), but the marketplace as a whole has already decided on this issue - and just like a 9.8 is considered more desirable than a 9.6 (or a Universal book is superior to a Qualified book), SS books are perceived as being "better" than their Universal counterparts.

[Boozad]

I'd personally be quite miffed if SS books were valued the same in the registry as blue label books - the market puts a premium on SS books, so it would make no sense that this wouldn't be factored into how high they score in the registry.

 

Dollar value is far from representative of a lot of books point values in the registry though Michael. Some books that carry a large monetary premium don't score many points compared to other books of the same dollar value. Wouldn't this reasoning apply in that scenario too?

 

No, I don't think so, Gav.

 

Across the board, SS books command a premium over Universal books due to the perceived scarcity, difficulty and extra cost involved in getting them - this is not based on individual books (say an X-Men #94 vs an Incredible Hulk #181), nor on a series, but on the color of the slab as a whole.

 

You may personally think that a signature doesn't add any value to a book (or that it even detracts from the value), but the marketplace as a whole has already decided on this issue - and just like a 9.8 is considered more desirable than a 9.6 (or a Universal book is superior to a Qualified book), SS books are perceived as being "better" than their Universal counterparts.

 

I totally understand SS book commanding a premium moneywise Michael, the work involved alone bumps up the price of the book. I wouldn't compare any given book to a different book either, only a Blue label against an SS label.

 

I also don't believe that a signature doesn't add monetary value to a book, like I say I do own some SS books as well as having subbed some myself for SS, and I agree that the market has decided that they're worth more, it's pretty hard not to agree when completed sales put the facts straight in front of you.

 

The part I disagree on is that SS books are perceived as being better than Universal books. By the people that collect them they are, and by the points awarded in the registry CGC obviously regard them as being better as well. But what about the people who don't like SS books? In their eyes they are not better, and as such they are penalised in their registry set because of their personal choice.

A 9.8 is technically better than a 9.6, that again is unarguable fact, and that does make sense that the higher graded book garners more points, there would be no point in competetive sets otherwise. But when there are two types of 9.8 it comes down to personal preference.

 

Again I'll stress that I do like SS books and do own a couple with hopefully more to come. I'm not questioning the program in itself or how much they are valued financially, I'm really just putting a point forward that people who do like to compete in the registry but only like to collect Universal books have no chance against people who like to collect SS books.

[NewEnglandGothic]

I hear you, Gav. I'm not a big fan of signature books(as some might have figured out by viewing my Registry Set), but I understand why collector's want them. I originally tried to collect a set of Signature Series books to go with my uber Universals(they felt like variants), but eventually stopped and sold them when SS books from my title evaporated due to lack of interest and signing opportunities. For my Registry Set, the #2 set owner could easily trounce me if she had all her books signed, and did technically, when the L & K set was originally only set to Welcome To Lovecraft and no other arcs. But, oddly it didn't bother me as much as I thought and I just said to myself, I would focus on next year. My focus is the uber books only and if I lose the contest, I lose. I'm just so unsure about signing seemingly perfect books(could this be a fad? could another grading company down the road penalize these signatures? who knows?) to want to compete and would rather not. I'll just stick to having the Signed Editions signed. For now.

[Green]

A 9.8 is technically better than a 9.6, that again is unarguable fact, and that does make sense that the higher graded book garners more points, there would be no point in competetive sets otherwise. But when there are two types of 9.8 it comes down to personal preference.

 

I think that is just as valuable an argument as the one you presented. In both cases the market(which is what the registry is based on) has already spoken and one is distinctly worth more than the other. In both cases there is a minority who disagrees.

 

So while you may not see it as an upgrade, the market does. Just as the person who is thrilled with his 9.6 does not see a 9.8 as an upgrade and perhaps he wants to win a registry set,so does he get a thread too