How Do We Achieve Pro-Active Disclosure In The Marketplace?

[Theagenes]

I voted these two

 

(2) No inclusion in the rules, but the acceptance of one post being allowed per sales thread, requesting pro-active disclosure. The precise content can be worked out, but something civil and mannerly, along the lines of 'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

(3) The maintenance of a 'Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who actively disclose in all of their sales thread.

 

Me too (thumbs u

 

OK, for those who voted for either of these, what happens to the person, who when asked nicely to identify the books that have been pressed, says, "screw off", or "assume that all these books are pressed"?

 

Steve Borock's "assume all these books are pressed" answers both of these statements, but says nothing.

 

Well, I can't speak to option #2, because I don't support it (too much potential for threadcrapping), but I as I said I don't really have a problem with option #3. With option #3, if the list is for proactive disclosure then someone using the Steve Borock option should not be on it. They can post their disclaimer in their sales thread and buyers make of it what they will. Most people probably don't care either way, but having a list of proactive disclosers will help those buyers for whom pressing is a big deal, without creating a burden on sellers who couldn't care less.

[mschmidt]

Just my two cents here but here goes...

 

(1) Request that Arch includes pro-active disclosure in the Marketplace rules with the standard actions/sanctions being the consequence of non-adherence.

Won't happen. Arch and the rest of admin have been VERY clear that they do not run the marketplace and simply delete threads not in compliance with the rules. Because CGC Inc. hasn't taken a stance on pressing, I don't think they're going to even touch the issue in the marketplace.

 

What do you mean? CGC's stance on pressing is crystal clear:

 

Non-additive procedures, such as pressing, dry cleaning and tape removal, are not classified as restoration by CGC.

[FlyingDonut]

I voted these two

 

(2) No inclusion in the rules, but the acceptance of one post being allowed per sales thread, requesting pro-active disclosure. The precise content can be worked out, but something civil and mannerly, along the lines of 'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

(3) The maintenance of a 'Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who actively disclose in all of their sales thread.

 

Me too (thumbs u

 

OK, for those who voted for either of these, what happens to the person, who when asked nicely to identify the books that have been pressed, says, "screw off", or "assume that all these books are pressed"?

 

Steve Borock's "assume all these books are pressed" answers both of these statements, but says nothing.

 

Well, I can't speak to option #2, because I don't support it (too much potential for threadcrapping), but I as I said I don't really have a problem with option #3. With option #3, if the list is for proactive disclosure then someone using the Steve Borock option should not be on it. They can post their disclaimer in their sales thread and buyers make of it what they will. Most people probably don't care either way, but having a list of proactive disclosers will help those buyers for whom pressing is a big deal, without creating a burden on sellers who couldn't care less.

 

Wait a minute - why doesn't the Borock Approach apply? If I use that, I most definitely AM proactively disclosing.

[Theagenes]

I voted these two

 

(2) No inclusion in the rules, but the acceptance of one post being allowed per sales thread, requesting pro-active disclosure. The precise content can be worked out, but something civil and mannerly, along the lines of 'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

(3) The maintenance of a 'Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who actively disclose in all of their sales thread.

 

Me too (thumbs u

 

OK, for those who voted for either of these, what happens to the person, who when asked nicely to identify the books that have been pressed, says, "screw off", or "assume that all these books are pressed"?

 

Steve Borock's "assume all these books are pressed" answers both of these statements, but says nothing.

 

Well, I can't speak to option #2, because I don't support it (too much potential for threadcrapping), but I as I said I don't really have a problem with option #3. With option #3, if the list is for proactive disclosure then someone using the Steve Borock option should not be on it. They can post their disclaimer in their sales thread and buyers make of it what they will. Most people probably don't care either way, but having a list of proactive disclosers will help those buyers for whom pressing is a big deal, without creating a burden on sellers who couldn't care less.

 

Wait a minute - why doesn't the Borock Approach apply? If I use that, I most definitely AM proactively disclosing.

 

Well, I guess as long as the Borock disclaimer is in all sales threads then it's counts as disclosure and it would be okay. I stand corrected.

[Mac Man]

Seems viable as it's simply a request asking someone to do something--but not forcing them to comply. But no need to have a poll on it as it's no different at this point than asking for a scan or clarification of a part of a book (is that a NCB or a scanner streak?).

Today, if someone posted in a sales thread, "Are any of these books pressed," wouldn't it be perceived as thread carping?

 

@Bocsco: Honestly, I don't think this thread will go anywhere in terms of generating any new marketplace guidelines. I think the best we can work towards is proactive disclosure BY THE SELLER as I mentioned in Stephen's thread last night. I said 'seems viable' though I don't think it will work long-term for those very reasons you mention (and others I'm sure I'm overlooking).

 

@mschmidt: When I mentioned CGC doesn't have an opinion on it, I was referring to whether pressing equated to resto but to their disclosure of it which is more germane to the conversation. I hope I clarified my earlier point.

[Ghost Town]

I like the idea of disclosure and understand the desire for it. But to try to mandate that people disclose pressing on CGC’s message boards when CGC itself doesn’t consider it disclosure-worthy seems kind of off base to me.

 

And basing it on a poll with around 100 or 200 votes seems like a pretty big leap too.

 

I think if you want to know if a book is pressed, it’s easy enough to ask. If you want to encourage pro-active disclosure, buy from people who pro-actively disclose.

 

It’s hard to imagine CGC agreeing to any mandate about disclosing pressing here on the boards. And even if they did, enforcing it seems like an impossible task.

 

I think the market forces in the hobby are working against this idea too. There are just too many collectors who don’t care whether or not a book is pressed. Or if they do care, they don’t bother asking. So while it’s great when sellers pro-actively disclose, asking for the information isn’t an unreasonable alternative.

 

[Mr.Diggler]

Looks like eBay and comic link will be the place to buy books now, the market forums are about to go to mess

 

Thanks Nick

This whole forum is going to the crapper.

 

Overreact much?

[t3quila]

Looks like eBay and comic link will be the place to buy books now, the market forums are about to go to mess

 

Thanks Nick

This whole forum is going to the crapper.

 

Overreact much?

 

Perhaps he is longing for the days when his old mate comic supply used to sell on the boards?

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

All I see again is the people with the same agenda trying to be dictators.

 

I ran a poll. People voted 'yes'.

 

I ran another poll regarding choices, this still being in progress.

 

I think you might need to look 'dictator' up in the dictionary.

 

You ran two polls, one of which is a warm and fuzzy feel good poll, which 74% of the respondents (including me) voted in the affirmative, and the second requiring an enforcement action that was not in any way discussed in the first poll - and you're wondering why people are balking?

 

A warm and fuzzy list of sellers who proactively disclose is an 'enforcement action'?

 

Is this National Drama Day?

[Mr.Diggler]

Looks like eBay and comic link will be the place to buy books now, the market forums are about to go to mess

 

Thanks Nick

This whole forum is going to the crapper.

 

Overreact much?

 

Perhaps he is longing for the days when his old mate comic supply used to sell on the boards?

 

[cheetah]

I like the idea of disclosure and understand the desire for it. But to try to mandate that people disclose pressing on CGC’s message boards when CGC itself doesn’t consider it disclosure-worthy seems kind of off base to me.

 

And basing it on a poll with around 100 or 200 votes seems like a pretty big leap too.

 

I think if you want to know if a book is pressed, it’s easy enough to ask. If you want to encourage pro-active disclosure, buy from people who pro-actively disclose.

 

It’s hard to imagine CGC agreeing to any mandate about disclosing pressing here on the boards. And even if they did, enforcing it seems like an impossible task.

 

I think the market forces in the hobby are working against this idea too. There are just too many collectors who don’t care whether or not a book is pressed. Or if they do care, they don’t bother asking. So while it’s great when sellers pro-actively disclose, asking for the information isn’t an unreasonable alternative.

 

 

It's not even a hard thing to do. If you don't like the answer, don't buy it.

 

And the nice thing is, it makes it your responsibility, not everyone else's.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I voted these two

 

(2) No inclusion in the rules, but the acceptance of one post being allowed per sales thread, requesting pro-active disclosure. The precise content can be worked out, but something civil and mannerly, along the lines of 'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

(3) The maintenance of a 'Disclosers' list, highlighting those sellers who actively disclose in all of their sales thread.

 

Me too (thumbs u

 

OK, for those who voted for either of these, what happens to the person, who when asked nicely to identify the books that have been pressed, says, "screw off", or "assume that all these books are pressed"?

 

Steve Borock's "assume all these books are pressed" answers both of these statements, but says nothing.

 

This has already been answered in detail.

 

Isn't it great how people can have such strong opinions...and yet haven't actually read the debate?

 

However...

 

The answer is nothing. A single post can be made to the thread...wording can be written by you, if you want...and that's it. If the seller consequently discloses...great. If he doesn't, that's fine too, as that is information that a buyer can use however he sees fit...buy or not buy.

 

It was agreed that no pile-on would be tolerated and I've even volunteered to take to task anybody who does want to get vocal about it and mess on the sales thread.

[cheetah]

Isn't it great how people can have such strong opinions...and yet haven't actually read the debate?

 

Does anyone actually read all this? Some of us have other lives to live.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Isn't it great how people can have such strong opinions...and yet haven't actually read the debate?

 

Does anyone actually read all this? Some of us have other lives to live.

 

Understood.

 

But if you're going to take an aggressive swipe at somebody, it is usual to get your facts straight.

 

Just sayin'...

[8milemax]

Looks like eBay and comic link will be the place to buy books now, the market forums are about to go to mess

 

Thanks Nick

This whole forum is going to the crapper.

 

Overreact much?

 

Perhaps he is longing for the days when his old mate comic supply used to sell on the boards?

 

 

What you two don't understand is that if we try to press the issue the mods might just get sick of it and close down the market place! I have to ask Nick something are you just doing all of this to get under a certain companies skin. alot of us know how you feel about that person.

 

BTW is that the best you can bring up is CS? Lame!!!! get a new one

[buttock]

How about those who care ask, those who do not don't ask.

 

[DrWatson]

How about those who care ask, those who do not don't ask.

Why would we want it to be simple when we can FUBAR the whole situation? We should be our own government.

[buttock]

How about those who care ask, those who do not don't ask.

Why would we want it to be simple when we can FUBAR the whole situation? We should be our own government.

 

Well, some people think we need governance. Thank God they're looking out for my best interests because I'm incompetent and can't make decisions on my own.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Looks like eBay and comic link will be the place to buy books now, the market forums are about to go to mess

 

Thanks Nick

This whole forum is going to the crapper.

 

Overreact much?

 

Perhaps he is longing for the days when his old mate comic supply used to sell on the boards?

 

 

What you two don't understand is that if we try to press the issue the mods might just get sick of it and close down the market place! I have to ask Nick something are you just doing all of this to get under a certain companies skin. alot of us know how you feel about that person.

 

BTW is that the best you can bring up is CS? Lame!!!! get a new one

 

It's got nothing to do with any company, but everything to do with how I feel a community should hang together.

 

The whole question came about because I exchanged very civil, very informative, very productive PMs with four 'pressers' and 'pro-pressers' last week. We discussed how things are playing out, they had concerns, I had concerns, I brought the concerns to the boards.

[8milemax]

Looks like eBay and comic link will be the place to buy books now, the market forums are about to go to mess

 

Thanks Nick

This whole forum is going to the crapper.

 

Overreact much?

 

Perhaps he is longing for the days when his old mate comic supply used to sell on the boards?

 

 

What you two don't understand is that if we try to press the issue the mods might just get sick of it and close down the market place! I have to ask Nick something are you just doing all of this to get under a certain companies skin. alot of us know how you feel about that person.

 

BTW is that the best you can bring up is CS? Lame!!!! get a new one

 

It's got nothing to do with any company, but everything to do with how I feel a community should hang together.

 

The whole question came about because I exchanged very civil, very informative, very productive PMs with four 'pressers' and 'pro-pressers' last week. We discussed how things are playing out, they had concerns, I had concerns, I brought the concerns to the boards.

 

If thats the case, then why are so many people against it now?