How Do We Achieve Pro-Active Disclosure In The Marketplace?

[DrWatson]

Or how many have even ever purchased, sold or even have a valid interest in the marketplace. Of course, I'm sure we will be told that it isn't relevant.

 

I agree.

 

That's why everyone that makes a vote should also make a post in the respective thread regarding their reasoning for their vote. Anything short of that is not representative of a community, it's just an anonymous poll.

 

You realize true democracies use anonymous voting right? Is that not what they do in Canada?

The boards are not a democracy.

 

Correct, that is stonecold fact.

 

CGC Boards is NOT a place of total free speech and opinions.

 

Trust me.

How can I trust you? You have books pressed. Trust should be mandatory. Let's put it in the selling guidelines. "Thou Shalt Trust Thy Fellow Board Member."

trust...earned, right

Sometimes. I have a basic trust for most people, until they give me a reason not to trust them. Then, there are people I trust implicitly without reservation.

[gaz973]

For those of you who don't like mandatory disclosure, would you be more accepting of a proactive disclosers list? And if not, why not?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Here's the wording of the poll...

 

'So that begs the question...given that we are supposedly a community and given that we are all fully aware of the 'issue' and given that a PM exchange asking 'the question' can cost you a chance at a book, should pro-active disclosure be expected...maybe even demanded...in the Marketplace?'

 

Expected or even demanded.

 

Not 'hoped for'. Not 'asked for'.

 

Expected or even demanded.

 

Now, how can we 'expect or demand' something that isn't happening right now without changing anything?

 

You simply cannot vote for pro-active disclosure to be 'expected or demanded' in an environment that doesn't actually offer it without understanding that there will be a need for a change. It's just not possible.

 

So I listed suggestions related to this possible change. Unfortunately, I didn't included the other seventeen ways of doing it that nobody had actually bothered putting forward anywhere, even though I repeatedly asked for ideas in the other thread.

 

Nobody could be arsed then, but they sure seem arsed now...even though they are still not telling me how it should be done.

[DrWatson]

Mandatory disclosure negates personal choice.

Personal choices have been abrogated all over the place in the Marketplace. No selling PGX - No selling without scan or grade, no selling by soliciting bids.

 

You are doing nothing but hurling red herrings. I respect your opinion and your right to express yourself. I would be more likely to pay attention if you were actually saying something that meant something.

I don't believe mandated disclosure, in any form, is right. I don't see it as a red herring, but then again I don't have a law degree to make me a professional arguer. Given that, it's certainly your right to ignore my posts.

[Flaming_Telepath]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

[Theagenes]

I hate to say this, Nick, because I do, and will continue to disclose anything I know...but I can't vote for those options...

 

There was a reason I didn't want to start a poll, it's very difficult.

 

I don't want to see blacklists, I'm not McCarthy...and I don't think we can derive enough information from a few posts in the marketplace to put people on lists.

 

I'd prefer an option where we ask for some suggested statements to be included in the rules.

 

Sha, I included all of the suggestions to cover all the possible stances on the issue...from militant to middle-ground.

 

You don't like lists but do like incorporation in the rules? That's fine...just vote that way. (thumbs u

 

Actually, no you didn't. You didn't include the "don't do anything" option. The last poll asked:

 

Should Marketplace sellers be expected to pro-actively disclose pressing in their threads?

 

and 74% of those people voted yes. Yay.

 

This poll is not asking the same thing.

 

This poll is asking How To Achieve Pro-Active Disclosure, which is a VASTLY different poll from the first one.

 

The first poll is a voluntary action. We expect you to proactively disclose. You should do it, as a matter of good business practices - even though the sponsor of this board can't tell pressing and there is no consensus opinion on the action - because there is a significant section of the purchasing populace who doesn't want a pressed book, for whatever reason. That's a voluntary action, with the onus on enforcement on the collective and the seller.

 

The second poll is an enforcement action, with no "do nothing" option. I personally don't want any of these options - and I agree with the first poll - and I'm quite positive there's a majority of people who also do not.

 

I agree with FD on this. There is a big difference between believing that sellers should disclose (which I agreed with), and actual forcing people to disclose (which I have problems with).

 

I did vote for the third option only, as it seems to be the least onerous. I don't really have a problem with sellers voluntarily adding themselves to a list of people who proactively disclose. That way people who care about pressing can check the list and those who don't care can ignore it.

[GACollectibles]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

I t was still only a selective sampling of voters, not a poll in an expressed thread of purpose.

[seanfingh]

Mandatory disclosure negates personal choice.

Personal choices have been abrogated all over the place in the Marketplace. No selling PGX - No selling without scan or grade, no selling by soliciting bids.

 

You are doing nothing but hurling red herrings. I respect your opinion and your right to express yourself. I would be more likely to pay attention if you were actually saying something that meant something.

I don't believe mandated disclosure, in any form, is right. I don't see it as a red herring, but then again I don't have a law degree to make me a professional arguer. Given that, it's certainly your right to ignore my posts.

 

Yeah, but you don't say why. If there really is a reason, I'd love to hear it. It's got to be better than negating personal choice.

[ChasingKingKirby]

For those of you who don't like mandatory disclosure, would you be more accepting of a proactive disclosers list? And if not, why not?

 

Garry, I think the problem with a "list" is the same problem with any list. Who maintains it? How do I get on it? How do I get off of it? It's a slippery slope. Hypothetically, does my absence from the list mean that I do NOT disclose or that I haven't sold anything for awhile? No matter what anybody else does, my stance will remain the same, I WILL ask if a book has been pressed via PM if I'm buying. If I'm selling, chances are I wont know, but if for some reason, I DO happen to know. I'll post it.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I hate to say this, Nick, because I do, and will continue to disclose anything I know...but I can't vote for those options...

 

There was a reason I didn't want to start a poll, it's very difficult.

 

I don't want to see blacklists, I'm not McCarthy...and I don't think we can derive enough information from a few posts in the marketplace to put people on lists.

 

I'd prefer an option where we ask for some suggested statements to be included in the rules.

 

Sha, I included all of the suggestions to cover all the possible stances on the issue...from militant to middle-ground.

 

You don't like lists but do like incorporation in the rules? That's fine...just vote that way. (thumbs u

 

Actually, no you didn't. You didn't include the "don't do anything" option. The last poll asked:

 

Should Marketplace sellers be expected to pro-actively disclose pressing in their threads?

 

and 74% of those people voted yes. Yay.

 

This poll is not asking the same thing.

 

This poll is asking How To Achieve Pro-Active Disclosure, which is a VASTLY different poll from the first one.

 

The first poll is a voluntary action. We expect you to proactively disclose. You should do it, as a matter of good business practices - even though the sponsor of this board can't tell pressing and there is no consensus opinion on the action - because there is a significant section of the purchasing populace who doesn't want a pressed book, for whatever reason. That's a voluntary action, with the onus on enforcement on the collective and the seller.

 

The second poll is an enforcement action, with no "do nothing" option. I personally don't want any of these options - and I agree with the first poll - and I'm quite positive there's a majority of people who also do not.

 

I agree with FD on this. There is a big difference between believing that sellers should disclose (which I agreed with), and actual forcing people to disclose (which I have problems with).

 

I did vote for the third option only, as it seems to be the least onerous. I don't really have a problem with sellers voluntarily adding themselves to a list of people who proactively disclose. That way people who care about pressing can check the list and those who don't care can ignore it.

 

That's fine. I understand your reasoning. (thumbs u

 

If that's the way that sits most comfortably with you and you think it moves us towards a more transparent Marketplace, that's excellent.

 

It's actually a nice little option, that one. It's a positive list and anybody who wants to can get on on it. It 'mandates' nothing. It forces nothing. It 100% gives the choice to the seller.

 

I really am stuck for reasons why the 'we should have freedon to anybody' crowd has so many problems with it?

[Flaming_Telepath]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

I t was still only a selective sampling of voters, not a poll in an expressed thread of purpose.

 

Oh, sorry.

 

Because only the people who were likely to vote 'yes' bothered reading it.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

Sorry Nick, but a Forum poll can be subject to manipulation. Didn't say it was, only that it can be if people really wanted it.

 

Asking everyone to vote by replying in a thread would be a lot more meaningful to me personally. At least then you can sort out the questionable votes (like the folks with no posts, who just registered yesterday.....just sayin').

 

Needless to say, I don't disagree with the basic results that the majority of the Boards would like to see Pro-Active Disclosure in the Marketplace.

[GACollectibles]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

I t was still only a selective sampling of voters, not a poll in an expressed thread of purpose.

 

Oh, sorry.

 

Because only the people who were likely to vote 'yes' bothered reading it.

 

See! It was a setup!

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

For those of you who don't like mandatory disclosure, would you be more accepting of a proactive disclosers list? And if not, why not?

 

Garry, I think the problem with a "list" is the same problem with any list. Who maintains it? How do I get on it? How do I get off of it? It's a slippery slope. Hypothetically, does my absence from the list mean that I do NOT disclose or that I haven't sold anything for awhile? No matter what anybody else does, my stance will remain the same, I WILL ask if a book has been pressed via PM if I'm buying. If I'm selling, chances are I wont know, but if for some reason, I DO happen to know. I'll post it.

 

Not really that big a problem.

 

Who maintains it?

Well I could. You could. Garry could. If a list is decided upon as the option we want, we could even have a poll!

 

How do I get on it?

Ask. And if your sales threads show pro-active disclosure, you're on it.

 

Does my absence from the list mean that I do NOT disclose or that I haven't sold anything for awhile?

Could mean either, but if you're not selling, you don't need to be on the list until you do. And then you can ask.

[comicwiz]

incontrovertible

 

 

Even though I have been labeled a relativist, I absolutely love this word. Always have. Such power behind it.

 

 

I like being in a convertible too (thumbs u

[sckao]

 

Roll Call Vote!

[Flaming_Telepath]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

Sorry Nick, but a Forum poll can be subject to manipulation. Didn't say it was, only that it can be if people really wanted it.

 

Asking everyone to vote by replying in a thread would be a lot more meaningful to me personally. At least then you can sort out the questionable votes (like the folks with no posts, who just registered yesterday.....just sayin').

 

Needless to say, I don't disagree with the basic results that the majority of the Boards would like to see Pro-Active Disclosure in the Marketplace.

 

George,

 

Of course a poll can be manipulated.

 

But it's just as likely to be manipulated by either 'side'.

 

And that would have to have been one hell of a manipulation job.

[DrWatson]

Mandatory disclosure negates personal choice.

Personal choices have been abrogated all over the place in the Marketplace. No selling PGX - No selling without scan or grade, no selling by soliciting bids.

 

You are doing nothing but hurling red herrings. I respect your opinion and your right to express yourself. I would be more likely to pay attention if you were actually saying something that meant something.

I don't believe mandated disclosure, in any form, is right. I don't see it as a red herring, but then again I don't have a law degree to make me a professional arguer. Given that, it's certainly your right to ignore my posts.

 

Yeah, but you don't say why. If there really is a reason, I'd love to hear it. It's got to be better than negating personal choice.

I have mentioned several reasons in various threads and agreed with others who have posted different reasons. You chose one, short post and singled it out for debate.

[mschmidt]

As for those people who are suggesting that the 196 people who voted 'yes' were either shills, boarders with less than 10 posts or don't buy anything anyway...and the 74 who voted 'no' were solid buying citizens...

 

 

I t was still only a selective sampling of voters, not a poll in an expressed thread of purpose.

 

Oh, sorry.

 

Because only the people who were likely to vote 'yes' bothered reading it.

 

This is the exact wording of your poll:

 

"Should Marketplace sellers be expected to pro-actively disclose pressing in their threads?"

 

If your poll had said:

 

"Should Marketplace sellers be forced to pro-actively disclose pressing in their threads?"

 

would the results have been the same? Not a chance.

[DiceX]

I really appreciate all the effort you're putting into it, but how about rewarding the sellers with practices you like with your wallet, and punishing those you disagree with by not buying. Ultimately, money is the motivating factor, and if a seller isn't making any he will change his practices.

 

The only other motive for this mandatory disclosure would be to protect someone else's money. In that I would say there probably are very few people that buy and sell on these boards that don't know about pressing. Given the fact that they're educated and THEY CHOOSE to continue to buy means you want to removed two choices; the buyer's and the seller's.

 

If you really want eliminate the injustice in the comic world, you might take your dog and pony show to eBay where there are masses of uneducated buyers and sellers. I think your time and effort here is wasted.

 

But I still love you.