Are These "Big Dealer" Mass Submissions Hurting the Market?

[FlyingDonut]

What level of service do you have to pay to get them back that weekend, standard? Express?

 

a lot, but its worth it - you get the books back the same day. Moderns, however, are a GREAT deal onsite, as the "convention special" applied (last summer anyway), and the instant flip potential was great.

[Apotheosis]

Raise your hand if you've got books you'd like to send in but aren't bothering because they're too slow. That's money right out of CGC's pockets.

 

That would be me. I have quite a few SA X-Men that I would like to send in, but I'm just not thrilled with the idea of spending $300+ and having my comics gone for 4-5 months. The last couple of times I submitted things I forgot what I submitted and had to go back and look at the invoice to see what would be coming back just because they were gone for so long. Keep in mind... I'm not typically flipping these. They're for my personal stash, but paying that much and then not seeing the result for months sucks. If they could get the Economy tier down to only 2 months I would submit, but until then I'll hold onto my money...

[hobbes]

Thanks

[Red Hook]

No, I don't think those mass subs are hurting the market. They are killing the market.

 

I made a suggestion recently that CGC initiate a month or two moritorium on mass subs so they can catch up. It would be a pretty ballsy thing, but in lieu of adding more staff, it would be a good way to reinstill some confidence for the non-dealer submitter. I mean, throw us a bone here! Or offer a coupon good for 50% off a future submission if the extra wait goes beyond a reasonable length.

[drbanner]

...a good way to reinstill some confidence for the non-dealer submitter.

 

The problem isn't with preferential turn-times for "dealers" vs. "non-dealers", the problem is with preferential turn-times for econs vs. moderns. I like the idea of a moratorium on modern grading...they make more on econs than they do moderns anyway (on a per book basis), but I wonder what the volume difference is?

 

Paging Valiantman...paging Valiantman...what was the increase in the census numbers for books after/before 1/1/75 after the last census update?

[Darthdiesel]

i hear you but I thought it was also noted fact that the main three including borock don't touch moderns.

 

So all those CGC 9.9 and 10.0 GEMS are being graded by the janitor?

 

The not-so-funny thing is that CGC's janitors know more about grading comic books than other 3rd party comic book grading companies frequently mentioned on these boards

[Darthdiesel]

As I'm sure you don't want these guys divertred to moderns, you probably don't want pregraders/newer graders looking at your high price golden to bronze...i don't think modern submissions affect the other tiers...

 

But it' not just the graders is it? The whole system gets jammed up with these extra books, slabbing/labeling/packing etc all have turn around times that will be affected by the supply of books.

I think it would be a great idea if CGC could somehow spread the submission load across the tiers.

 

I think the main thing holding things up is the grading. The rest is automated. Unless the modern mass subs are getting put through the same encapsulation machines and CGC only has one such machine, I don't see the modern mass subs being thrown into the mix. AS for packing, that's the customer service area...but they can't pack things up fast if there is nothing to pack.

 

It would be a great idea but how do you control what people are going to submit? and how do you enforce this selection process without "offending" your main regular submitters and not making an appearance of kowtowing to a vocal minority of collectors? Not a sound business decision, IMO. Short of a boycott of CGC by ALL submitters/dealers/collectors, I don't see a change in the way things are going unless they get more qualified graders to help with the higher priced tiers. As it is there is a demand for modern hi-grades and submitters are responding in kind.

[Darthdiesel]

i hear you but I thought it was also noted fact that the main three including borock don't touch moderns. As I'm sure you don't want these guys divertred to moderns, you probably don't want pregraders/newer graders looking at your high price golden to bronze...i don't think modern submissions affect the other tiers...

 

Then splain to me like I'm 5 why economy subs are taking 5 months to grade?

 

Economy has never been on time IMO...last time I used it, it took around 4- 5 months and that was not in the middle of convention season and before magazine grading was ever a thought.

 

Economy tier, I thought, was basically for older books that you can submit and forget about for a few months, at least that is my expectation of it. I would use it for books staying in my collection prior to the Modern tier date cutoff. I would not use it for "slab and flip for profit" books. Keep in mind that the while dealers/entrepreneurs/speculators have turned CGC into a slab and flip profit vehicle, CGC's primary motivation was to produce a quality third party graded product. You want faster turnaround to get things onto eBay for sale, pay express or standard prices Then the consideration at hand becomes a cost/benefit ratio, forcing the submitter to submit smarter...beter books, better choices...

[Darthdiesel]

I don't know about hurting the overall market, but I think it's pretty clear that it's hurting CGC's market. Raise your hand if you've got books you'd like to send in but aren't bothering because they're too slow. That's money right out of CGC's pockets.

 

You may have a point. Maybe they have enough money right now with what has already been submitted I'd hate for them to compromise the quality of their product by rushing through the process just to make a few extra bucks off the less patient submitter? Would you?

 

But, the reality is that CGC is a consortium of comic book dealers. All of their charter members are big national dealers, and so their policies and practices are aimed at making their member dealers as much money as possible.

 

All their charter members are not national dealers. I believe the initial offer was an open invitation to anyone for consideration for charter membership. But wouldn't that make good business sense to support those who backed your operation initially when it was in its fledgling stages? I wish I had been on board with CGC back then to become a charter member but I think my local comic shop basically blew them off like we do any new 3rd party grading company and so my application found its way into the G-file instead

[Darthdiesel]

I wish they'd bump the modern tier back and focus on getting econs/standards up to a reasonable turn-time. I don't think it's that big submitters get preferential treatment, but modern books get slabbed first, whether they come from Darth or from the guy with the "Guaranteed 9.8 Service". I've got some econs I'd like to get slabbed so I can generate some cash flow for the summer conventions, but the current turn-time doesn't show me getting them back until June/July. CGG is a viable alternative to me at this point...cheaper...faster...

 

Modern Hater!

 

I know for a fact I don't get preferential treatment based on grades returned and turnaround times.

 

My question to you would be how does CGC justify bumping the modern tier back and continuing with business as usual on other tiers? Are those books more important than moderns? Are those submitters using other tiers paying with money greener than that paid my modern submitters? I would be hard pressed to come up with a valid business justification for curtailing modern tier submissions while letting the others continue on. It's not like all resources from Modern grading could be devoted to the other tiers with the flick of a switch, IMO?

 

and being in this business for as long as you have been, how can CGG ever be a viable alternative? Alternative to what? Losing money instead of making none I know you were probably J/K...more comments like that and you'll have to turn in your CGC Acolyte membership card and robes...

[Rocketeer]

wish they'd bump the modern tier back and focus on getting econs/standards up to a reasonable turn-time.

 

modern is no better,...I just got a modern sub back yesterday that I sent in on 01/06......that's 9 weeks....every tier is off,...

[valiantman]

Paging Valiantman...paging Valiantman...what was the increase in the census numbers for books after/before 1/1/75 after the last census update?

CGC Census numbers - 1/8/2004 update - (compared to 11/11/2003)

Modern (1975 - present): 192,493 submissions (+9,451; +5.2%)

non-Modern (1974 and earlier): 184,532 submissions (+6,178; +3.5%)

[Darthdiesel]

No, I don't think those mass subs are hurting the market. They are killing the market.

 

Not my market, Red...

 

I made a suggestion recently that CGC initiate a month or two moritorium on mass subs so they can catch up. It would be a pretty ballsy thing, but in lieu of adding more staff, it would be a good way to reinstill some confidence for the non-dealer submitter. I mean, throw us a bone here! Or offer a coupon good for 50% off a future submission if the extra wait goes beyond a reasonable length.

 

Here's my bone for you, biznatch: Why single out moderns...just put a month moratorium on ALL submissions, mass and individual, if indeed the reason is "to catch up". Then they can focus on hiring new employees and cross-training staff, re-evaluate shipping times for supplies and equipment maintenance.

 

If CGC ever put a stop on just Moderns, they would lose a lot of their submitter base. They'd be showing preferential treatment to a section of the hobby that does not spend as much on their product, but likes to whine more...must be something that comes with getting on in years

 

Problem I have with your suggestion is that it would be a temporary fix, a band-aid at best. The problem is the market itself and how submitters perceive CGC's purpose to be a profit vehicle and not its primary mission of instilling a confidence in a comic book's condition with a third party grading label. I bet if they do place a moratorium on submissions, when it gets started up all over again without any growth in resources and staff available, we just come back to the same problem all over again some convention months down the road

[rob_react]

What a head scratcher. Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, but we're laying the blame for a company's problems at its customers' feet? CGC can't handle the increase in volume and it's their customers' fault? How does that work exactly? Isn't that totally backwards? Shouldn't we be talking about how CGC is failing to satisfy its customers demands, whatever they may be?

 

CGC simply has to do what every other company in this situation would do- increase productivity. In this case it would probably mean hiring more staff.

 

Of course, there's no real pressure to do so since there's no real competition for them...

 

By the way- proposing that we should punish modern tier customers because CGC is slow? What's up with that? It sounds like a case of "what I collect is cool, what you collect is stupid." I hate that syndrome.

 

CGC has to figure out a way to handle the volume, it's that simple.

[Red Hook]

Darth, I never meant to pick on modern subs....I just never realized that the mass subs are usually modern. I was having a dumb moment.

 

If there is a moratorium, then, let it be across the boards.

[drbanner]

CGC's default estimated turn-times ensure moderns get preferential treatment over econs (20 days vs. 40 days), but I agree with you that it doesn't matter WHO is submitting the books. The justification for speeding up the grading rate for econs at the expense of the other tiers is pretty simple - econs are taking ~100% longer, moderns ~50% longer, and standards ~25% longer than the stated estimate. All other things being equal, the delays should be the same % for each tier. However, if it was my business I would allocate the man-hours to get the biggest $$ return per unit time, which I'm guessing is why things are as they are.

 

Also, I do believe that Steve said here recently that there is a back-log in the support services (encapsulation, packaging, receiving, etc.,.) as well, so it's not just the grader's that are behind.

 

You'll never take my CAA card...NEVER!!

[Darthdiesel]

What a head scratcher. Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong, but we're laying the blame for a company's problems at its customers' feet?

 

essentially, yes, but there is more to that 'yes'...it's the customer's/market's perception of CGC's purpose that factors into there...

 

CGC can't handle the increase in volume and it's their customers' fault? How does that work exactly? Isn't that totally backwards? Shouldn't we be talking about how CGC is failing to satisfy its customers demands, whatever they may be?

 

It seems like that is ALL we talk about lately on these boards...

 

CGC simply has to do what every other company in this situation would do- increase productivity. In this case it would probably mean hiring more staff.

 

or build longer delays into turnaround times :delays: But yes I agree that an increase in productivity would be necessary to meet customer demand.

 

Of course, there's no real pressure to do so since there's no real competition for them...

 

are we forgetting about CGG and 3PG Their real competition would be to dealers deciding the turnaround times are too long and deciding to sell the books raw instead...

 

By the way- proposing that we should punish modern tier customers because CGC is slow? What's up with that? It sounds like a case of "what I collect is cool, what you collect is stupid." I hate that syndrome.

 

that didn't come from my posts I'd be the last one you hear that suggestion from ..

 

CGC has to figure out a way to handle the volume, it's that simple.

 

I agree I say since Golden age books are on their last leg anyway (is there really a true NM 9.4 Golden age book ) that CGC put these moldy oldies oout of their misery and just shread them upon arrival

[Darthdiesel]

Darth, I never meant to pick on modern subs....I just never realized that the mass subs are usually modern. I was having a dumb moment.

 

If there is a moratorium, then, let it be across the boards.

 

there are mass economy prescreens as well...just more $$$

[OldGuy]

CGC can't handle the increase in volume and it's their customers' fault? How does that work exactly? Isn't that totally backwards? Shouldn't we be talking about how CGC is failing to satisfy its customers demands, whatever they may be?

 

It seems like that is ALL we talk about lately on these boards...

 

"Seems" being the operative word in that sentence.

[burntboy]

 

 

Are those books more important than moderns?

 

you bet they are!!!!!!!!