Comic Book Marketplace articles and letters

[walclark]

Harry Thomas was a long time dealer and Overstreet advisor from near Chattanooga. He used to set up at the Nashville flea market every month and in the 80's and 90's, I bought something from him almost every month there. After eBay took off, he eased over into that and stopped coming to the flea market. I last saw him at a Tennessee vs. Vanderbilt women's b-ball game.

 

He passed away a few years ago.

 

Is this the guy that labeled himself the friendliest dealer in the south?

 

 

That would be Harry. I found his ad in OSPG #23 from the early 90's and he billed himself as "for 26 years, the friendliest and most courteous dealer in the South." He also said he was an Overstreet advisor from the very first issue. I'm pretty sure that was true.

 

I guess the mantle of "friendliest and most courteous dealer in the South" has now passed to G.A.tor.

 

Harry was quite a character.

 

He absolutely abhorred CGC and made it known openly.

 

From what I hear he was also quite the lady's man.

 

I bought quite a few books from Harry over the years and had a few run-ins with him when his books were a little over graded. At one point he refused to sell to me because I was one of those "CGC guys" but then acquiesced.

 

Over all I really liked dealing with him. He was never boring.

 

 

Yeah, Harry was not a fan of CGC. When he moved his business from shows and such to strictly eBay, his listings would have a small picture, a brief description with his grade, and then a wild rant underneath in a HUGE font with color where he proudly proclaimed that he never had and never would buy or sell a slabbed comic. He basically said that he had been grading comics for over 40 years and knew how to grade and, if you didn't like it, well, go buy somewhere else.

 

Harry definitely believed that CGC would be the ruination of our hobby. He could not imagine that anyone would want to buy a comic and not read the stories or see the interior artwork.

 

God bless him, I've probably got over a hundred GA comics that I bought from Harry at that old flea market. He was always a lot of fun to deal with and the article that he co-wrote with Gary Carter in an old OSPG about Golden Age war covers is what got me started down that path.

[Larryw7]

I don't think Gary C. was crazy about the idea of CGC either, that's one of the reasons he gave for leaving the hobby on an old Comic Zone interview.

[blazingbob]

I was at that EC dinner in San Diego.

 

They had a art gallery setup with some great pieces.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I don't think Gary C. was crazy about the idea of CGC either, that's one of the reasons he gave for leaving the hobby on an old Comic Zone interview.

 

Nope, was not a fan of CGC at all from what I've heard.

 

In fact, I've heard lots of stuff about how many of the "pillars" of the hobby in previous decades were not big fans of CGC.

 

Do you guys think it was for sincere reasons or was it because it took power away from them by standardizing grading and exposing restoration?

[cloudofwit]

Here's an article from CBM #2 (April-May 1991): "The Ultimate Pedigree" by Dr. Pat Kochanek

 

It was as if it had been put on the newsstand just a few hours earlier. Crisp, mirror-like cover gloss, bone-white pages, and colors which leaped off the cover. Hell, it even smelled new. But wait, this was the Adventure Comics #79, one of my favorite Simon and Kirby covers of the Golden Age, but it was 1985, not October 1942. More amazing was the fact that the Adventure #79 was sandwiched between equally death defying copies of Adventure Comics #s 50, 53, 56, 58, 63, 65, 75, 77, 83, 86, 89, and 92, numerous More Funs, All Americans, All Stars, and a major stack of Sensations. The uniformity incredible condition of these books was miles better than anything I had ever seen, even going back to the New York Comic Art Cons and Detroit Triple Fanfares of the late 1960s. What I didn't realize at the time was that these books were the best anyone had ever seen. Joe Vereneault of Sparkle City Comics explained that these were "Mile Highs," and that there was one of just about every Golden Age book ever printed in the collection.

 

I had been out of comic collecting from about 1975 to 1983, so I missed the actual original "disbursement" of the "Mile Highs." In 1983, I was nudged back into collecting after purchasing the Overstreet Price Guide. That year, the Overstreet display of DC Golden Age covers in that issue came largely from the Carter collection, and many of the books pictured were actually the authentic "Mile High" copies. The absolutely killer page from that issue which displayed the "Mile High" copies of Flash Comics #92, All American #61, Action #102, and Flash Comics #104, is shown on the opposite page. Despite having been a condition conscious DC Golden Age collector in the 1960s, with some beautiful books by any standards, my books looked lifeless next to the 5 or 6 "Mile Highs" which I had purchased that year. Of note, my collection at that time included numerous Larson and other very high-grade books. To quote Gary Carter, who frequently describes (I think better than anyone) the difference between authentic "Mile Highs" and everything else, "other books just PALE in comparison to 'Mile Highs.'" In less than two years, my collection had been completely liquidated, exclusively in trade for authentic "Mile High" books. I traded and purchased from two major sources of "Mile Highs" at the time.

 

Simply stated, the "Mile High" books re-defined condition standards for Golden Age books. Certainly the "Mile High" copy is not the best copy in existence of a given book in every case. A number of San Francisco collection and Indian Reservation collection copies are better, occasional Pennsylvania collection, Larson collection, Chicago collection, or Allentown collection copies, and even a few stragglers are better.

 

There are (by my best, albeit somewhat crude, estimate) at least 4,000 examples and possibly as many as 6,000 or 7,000 examples where some other book is "better" than the authentic "Mile High" copy. From a cover flaw or specific techical flaw standpoint, the higher number is probably true, from a whiteness of pages or whiteness and gloss of cover standpoint, something between these two figures may be a more reasonable estimate. This is phenomenal, considering that around 22,000 books are involved. Even if there are 7,000 examples where the "Mile High" copy is not the best copy, it would still mean that over two-thirds of the time, the "Mile High" copy is the best. Remember, this is comparing individual books in the "Mile High" collection to the books from all other collections combined. In addition, this figure is certainly a conservative estimate, if one considers only books between 1938 and 1949, since these are the years in which condition is really prime and relatively consistent for the "Mile High" collection. Based on the original master list, it is obvious that the bulk of the "flawed" books in the collection were books printed either after 1951 or before 1938. It is this point--that the overall best books in existence are part of nearly complete runs--that is so magnetizing about the "Mile High" books. Almost all high grade Golden Age collectors have a heterogeneous stack of books of varying brightness, whiteness, and source.(:confused:) The "Mile High" collection offers remarkable consistency even down to the fact that they were purchased from the same store and originated at the same distributor outlet. This consistency is ungodly rare when trying to compile a collection of books which range in printing date from 1937 to 1952 or 1953. One can begin to get an appreciation for this by looking at the covers of the first, say, twenty or so issues of Flash Comics in the Photo Journal Guide to Comics (Volume I). All twenty are the authentic "Mile Highs."

 

Of particular note, in a letter to the editor of this magazine in its inaugural issue, it was suggested that in the "golden age of collecting" (the 1960s) all comics were affordable. Speaking from the experience of having been at major conventions in the 1960s, we (my brother and I) could never get most of the Golden Age books in high grade, let alone this kind of condition. In retrospect, since the emergence of the "Mile Highs" and other pedigree books, the sale of a truly near mint condition or better Golden Age book was exceptionally rare in the 1960s. White pages were almost never seen. In fact, even beat-up copies of many of the 1947-1952 books were just not offered for sale, and "communication lines" between collectors were quite poor. For example, it wasn't until recently obtaining the "Mile High" copies of Flash Comics #95 (1948) and Green Lantern #28 (1947), that I had ever seen a truly near mint copy of either. Who wanted to sell Flash #104 for $8-12, the going rate in 1967? Late Golden Age books in any condition, thus, turn up more often in advertisements and at conventions in 1991 than they did in 1967. To compound the problem even more for the condition conscious collector back in the 1960s, it was standard for books to be advertised generically as being in "Good to Mint" condition. I vividly remember receiving a copy of Detective Comics #68 advertised as "Good to Mint" which had about five pieces of white bandage tape on it. The dealer was quite upset that I returned the book. I also remember a few mail-order dealers in the mid 1960s explicitly stating in their advertisements that they refuse to answer inquires regarding condition of specific books.

 

Not everyone would enjoy being a "Mile High" only collector. In fact, most comic collectors, and even hard core Golden Age collectors wouldn't. Certainly, the vast majority of collectors read their books, are interested in completing a given run or title, or at least look at their collection frequently (not to mention the economics involved in collecting any of the Pedigree books). "Mile High" and other pedigree or ultra-high grade collectors generally are satisfied with trekking down to their safe deposit box 4 or 5 times a year to just look at the covers of their books through a mylar, and add just 1 or 2 books (if they are lucky) to their collection. This may seem like an unusual way to collect, but, for all of the reasons discussed in this article, JUST ONE LOOK at say 50 or 60 authentic "Mile Highs" amassed on a single table can be pretty damn incredible.

 

For those people who actually collected Golden Age comics before 1970, these books are almost unreal, and represent something that was thought not to exist--ungettable, as I frequently say. They truly demonstrate what the Golden Age books REALLY looked like on the newsstand.

 

Occasionally, when I attend a convention, I might approach a dealer with exceptionally nice material and ask, "You wouldn't happen to have any authentic 'Mile High' books?' Often, the dealer will scoff in a relatively defensive manner, "no, but go ahead and pay an over-inflated 4 or 5 times Guide for a book if that makes you happy." I just chuckle and thank Edgar Church for the opportunity. SPA FON, with white pages!

 

[wee_s2e-migration]

I was at that EC dinner in San Diego.

 

They had a art gallery setup with some great pieces.

 

 

And although Jack Davis wasn't at the Con, he was at this dinner.

[fastballspecial]

I don't think Gary C. was crazy about the idea of CGC either, that's one of the reasons he gave for leaving the hobby on an old Comic Zone interview.

 

Nope, was not a fan of CGC at all from what I've heard.

 

In fact, I've heard lots of stuff about how many of the "pillars" of the hobby in previous decades were not big fans of CGC.

 

Do you guys think it was for sincere reasons or was it because it took power away from them by standardizing grading and exposing restoration?

 

Thats a hell of a question. Several older collectors beleive that comics books are meant to be read and encapusulation is death to a book and I really cant blame them. While I also believe comics are meant to be read the standardization part has convinced me there is a place for CGC. I ran into to many shops that have books that were color touched or trimmed that they had no way of nothing and lost alot of money or past on to another buyer.

[tth2]

I don't think Gary C. was crazy about the idea of CGC either, that's one of the reasons he gave for leaving the hobby on an old Comic Zone interview.

 

Nope, was not a fan of CGC at all from what I've heard.

 

In fact, I've heard lots of stuff about how many of the "pillars" of the hobby in previous decades were not big fans of CGC.

 

Do you guys think it was for sincere reasons or was it because it took power away from them by standardizing grading and exposing restoration?

The latter.

 

Which was compounded by jealousy and bitterness when they saw how quickly CGC got accepted by the market and saw how much money was being made from CGC`d books.

 

[VintageComics]

I don't think Gary C. was crazy about the idea of CGC either, that's one of the reasons he gave for leaving the hobby on an old Comic Zone interview.

 

Nope, was not a fan of CGC at all from what I've heard.

 

In fact, I've heard lots of stuff about how many of the "pillars" of the hobby in previous decades were not big fans of CGC.

 

Do you guys think it was for sincere reasons or was it because it took power away from them by standardizing grading and exposing restoration?

 

Thats a hell of a question. Several older collectors beleive that comics books are meant to be read and encapusulation is death to a book and I really cant blame them. While I also believe comics are meant to be read the standardization part has convinced me there is a place for CGC. I ran into to many shops that have books that were color touched or trimmed that they had no way of nothing and lost alot of money or past on to another buyer.

 

It's quite the question and I am sure that there are people on more than one side of the fence.

 

Comics can still be read after being graded, which is why I never understood their reasoning. It's very easy to remove a book from the holder.

 

I understand the entire 9.8 thing and removing a book from a holder where the value is grade sensitive, but if I wanted to buy a VG golden age book worth $200 I would have no problem buying it CGC graded and cracking it out. In fact that is what I did. I put most of my Marvel Mystery run together with slabbed books and cracked them out and enjoyed them immensely.

 

To me the slab is no different than a shopping bag. It's just a means to facilitate the transaction until the book gets safely home.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I don't think Gary C. was crazy about the idea of CGC either, that's one of the reasons he gave for leaving the hobby on an old Comic Zone interview.

 

Nope, was not a fan of CGC at all from what I've heard.

 

In fact, I've heard lots of stuff about how many of the "pillars" of the hobby in previous decades were not big fans of CGC.

 

Do you guys think it was for sincere reasons or was it because it took power away from them by standardizing grading and exposing restoration?

The latter.

 

Which was compounded by jealousy and bitterness when they saw how quickly CGC got accepted by the market and saw how much money was being made from CGC`d books.

 

Coming from you I can understand your POV. It must have been extremely difficult buying expensive books overseas before CGC.

[cloudofwit]

A poem from CBM founder Gary Carter (CBM #13 / May 1992):

 

"The Comic Book Collector's Lament"

 

Some say the best that life can give

is love and companionship,

or fine food and spiritous drink

upon which to dine and sip...

 

Some say it's stylish, expensive clothes

impressing all who stare,

or fabulous cars with exotic names

and prices beyond compare...

 

But I don't need love nor companion dear

I don't need fancy drink,

I don't need style nor adoring looks

To keep me "in the pink"...

 

I don't need gadgets or stretch limousines

Or any expensive contraption,

All I need to fulfill my life

is a near mint run of Action!

[ciorac]

I don't think Gary C. was crazy about the idea of CGC either, that's one of the reasons he gave for leaving the hobby on an old Comic Zone interview.

 

Nope, was not a fan of CGC at all from what I've heard.

 

In fact, I've heard lots of stuff about how many of the "pillars" of the hobby in previous decades were not big fans of CGC.

 

Do you guys think it was for sincere reasons or was it because it took power away from them by standardizing grading and exposing restoration?

 

Thats a hell of a question. Several older collectors beleive that comics books are meant to be read and encapusulation is death to a book and I really cant blame them. While I also believe comics are meant to be read the standardization part has convinced me there is a place for CGC. I ran into to many shops that have books that were color touched or trimmed that they had no way of nothing and lost alot of money or past on to another buyer.

 

It's quite the question and I am sure that there are people on more than one side of the fence.

 

Comics can still be read after being graded, which is why I never understood their reasoning. It's very easy to remove a book from the holder.

 

I understand the entire 9.8 thing and removing a book from a holder where the value is grade sensitive, but if I wanted to buy a VG golden age book worth $200 I would have no problem buying it CGC graded and cracking it out. In fact that is what I did. I put most of my Marvel Mystery run together with slabbed books and cracked them out and enjoyed them immensely.

 

To me the slab is no different than a shopping bag. It's just a means to facilitate the transaction until the book gets safely home.

 

[blazingbob]

Well if the CGC holder was better explained by Steve Borock as a much better surface to get seeds out of their marijuana it would have been more wildly accepted by the older dealer generation. Wide surface area with ridges to catch any drifters and the older dealer crowd would have been right on board.

 

For the more nasal challenged the CGC holder could have served as a portable snorting table, Carve a few grooves into the outer well and it can serve two purposes. Imagine the collector parties these books would have been at! And because you are not cracking the book out it's still graded!

[Aman619]

(plastic and razors dont party well...)

 

im just saying...

[jimjum12]

Well if the CGC holder was better explained by Steve Borock as a much better surface to get seeds out of their marijuana it would have been more wildly accepted by the older dealer generation. Wide surface area with ridges to catch any drifters and the older dealer crowd would have been right on board.

 

For the more nasal challenged the CGC holder could have served as a portable snorting table, Carve a few grooves into the outer well and it can serve two purposes. Imagine the collector parties these books would have been at! And because you are not cracking the book out it's still graded!

 

Truth is stranger than fiction.....I bought a slab off eBay several years ago that had razor damage and residue still on it. After talking with the fellow a few times he confided that he was selling some books because a bad habit had gotten out of hand. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[cloudofwit]

One more (full-text article) for the road...

 

"The Bethlehem Collection" by Joe Rainone (CBM #7 / November 1991):

 

What a thrill! Over 18,000 high-grade comics from as early as 1940 but predominantly from 1950-1969! However, I do not want to get ahead of myself. I hope to unlock some of the mystery behind the Bethlehem Collection. Whether it is a true "Pedigree" or comparative to the Mile High Collection in quality is for you to decide. Who owned it? How it came in to my hands, and what was there, I will attempt to explain.

 

It all began for me at a book show in New York City where I had some old comics on display. I was approached by an older man who told me he was aware of a collection of many thousands of old comics. He acted rather peculiar so I was not sure whether to believe him. He said he was a lawyer in touch with an estate which housed these comics as well as thousands of pulps, newspapers, children's books, men's magazines etc. Anyway, he gave me his phone number.

 

I then played telephone tag with the man and later his partner for over a month (an almost sleepless month!). As it turned out, there were three people in all I had to involve myself with. The lawyer I spoke of, his friend, and the auctioneer of the estate. They were all bickering on the amount they wanted. Finally, we agreed to meet at the lawyer's house where he promised to bring a sampling of about 4,000 books. Upon arriving, my friend, Phil Weiss and I were led to the basement where comics were stacked on top of a pool table. Trying not to reveal our astonishment, for these books were GORGEOUS, we began to peruse through them. We found many Atlas, Avons, ECs etc. Very little in DCs or early Marvels. However, an early Fantastic Four in high grade, an early Superman, a Lois Lane #1 in NM were there, and others. Eventually we agreed upon a price. Now they were greedier than ever. Originally twice the price we had paid for those 4,000 books should have bought the whole house of books, comics, magazines et al. Anyway, after about another month of anguish, we finally got to see the "Nest."

 

UNBELIEVABLE!!! The house was packed with paper collectibles! The children's books had already been sold, but there was still tons of stuff everywhere. The comics had been stacked upstairs, but now were stacked downstairs between two rooms. They were in stacks of approximately 3' to 4' stacks. The house was old and musty, and located in an old part of town. A price was negotiated and that weekend we filled the van to the teeth with our prize, combining our previously bought lot.

 

I do feel some books were missing, probably taken to make a few extra bucks on the side for one of the partners. For example, there was no Amazing Fantasy #15, yet # 1-14 were there. No Fantastic Four #1 or 5, yet 2, 3, 4, 6, and up were there. Avengers #1 was not there, #2 and up was. The only other Top 40 books not there were Detective #225, Tales to Astonish #27, Adventure #210, and Flash #105. All others were there, including two Hulk #1s, one with Marvel chipping, three Amazing Spider-Man #1s (one which Mr. Geppi said was probably the best he had ever seen), two Journey into Mystery #83s, two Tales of Suspense #39s, and all other Top 40 Silver Age comics.

 

Virtually all books have NM to M covers, aside for some defects from mishandling when moved or restacked. Some had shadows in places. None were obviously read, bagged or catalogued, they were simply amassed. Internally, pages were between above average condition to pristine white. The average for the 1950s was yellow to near white. 1960s averaged near white to white. Inside covers occasionally showed slight tanning at edges, nowhere near brittle. Most 1950s comics were stamped on the back cover as follows:

 

E.J. KERY

KODAK-FILM-MAGAZINE-SHOP

703 E. 4th STREET

BETHLEHEM, PA

 

Almost all books had neatly stamped arrival dates. Generally, black in the '50s and red in the '60s. Most of the Horror and Sci-Fi books went to one collector, while originally many of the DCs went to another private collector. Only a few books were advertised initially for sale by us. Phil and I divided some of the best, key, and early numbers between ourselves. I have since traded and sold some of the lesser priced and lesser condition books with some exceptions.

 

Let me give you some idea what was there. Mystery in Space, Strange Adventures, JLA, Green Lantern, House of Mystery and House of Secrets, My Greatest Adventure, Tales of the Unexpected, Brave and the Bold, Challengers, ALL #1 and UP!! Also, Showcase #1, 3, and UP, including virtually complete runs of Avon, ACG, Charlton, EC, Atlas, All Marvel titles, most DC from 1950 and up, etc., etc.

 

Who was the person responsible for preserving this time capsule? His name was Stanley Pachon. Staff writer, Raren Dolan for the Globe Times, who was on hand at the auction, wrote in her article: "When Pachon died of a heart attack at the age of 78...thousands of dime-store novels, a nationally recognized collection of Horatio Alger books...books, magazines, scholarly journals, comic books, pornography, juvenile serials...stacked to the ceilings in the basement, first floor, second floor, and attic...recluse, a weirdo, a genius, a scholar, a nut, and a pervert." Certainly it is not for us to judge. Whoever he was, he surrounded himself with the things in life he loved most. In doing so, he preserved a rare tribute to the diversity of American literature, creating for us snapshots in time. Thank you, Stanley Pachon, for "The Bethlehem Collection."

 

[cloudofwit]

Of the relatively few issues of CBM I have, there are two more--#32 and #71--which might be of interest to the Pedigree crowd:

 

CBM #32 (February 1996):

 

"The Pedigree Puzzle: Understanding the Complex History of Collection Provenance" by Matt Nelson, pp. 32-35, pp. 59-64. :think: Might this be, nearly 15 years ago, the initial seed to the Pedigree book? Whatever the case, may the seed soon sprout.

 

"The Lamont Larson Collection: A Window to the Early Golden Age" by Patrick M. Kochanek, M.D., pp. 45-49.

 

"Pedigree Comics: Which Comics are really Pedigrees...and Are They Worth the Premium Price?," pp. 50-58. This forum consists of responses from the following folks:

 

Phil Carpenter

Beth Holley

Jon Berk

Shawn Hamilton

Robert Rogovin

Michael Naiman

Greg Pharis

Bruce Ellsworth

Gary E. Bishop

Dan Greenhalgh

Bob Casali

Joe Vereneault

Harley Yee

Tim Collins

Matt Schiffman

Jason Ewert

Alan Bartholomew

Steven Gentner

Ron Pussell

 

CBM #71 (September 1999):

 

"Lamont Larson: The True Story of a Comic Book Pedigree" by Jon Berk, pp. 18-23. This article amounted to a Larson update--Berk found Mr. Larson and also acquired Joe Tricarichi's "Larson List."

 

 

 

 

 

[blazingbob]

I knew those holders were more than just coffee trays!

[sacentaur]

 

CBM Spotlight issue on Jerry Weist, who just recently passed.

[sacentaur]

Since CBM #2 (April/May 1991) is fast approaching 20 years old, I thought I'd post some of its contents. Anybody recognize any of these 14 names? They penned the letters to the editor:

 

Tom Mitchell (NY)

Eric McKnight (FL)

Judy-Lynn Wolken (TX)

Bill Yawien (NY)

Mike Dalessandro (NY)

Jeff Patton (OH)

Philip Ciacone (NJ)

Steve Carey (CA)

Harry Thomas (TN)

Joe Delaurentis (OK)

Nate Martinez (OR)

Ron Foss (MO)

:think: Dave Anderson (VA)

Dean Wong (B.C., Canada)

 

I`ve highlighted the boardies that I know of in bold. Technically Anderson has been on the boards but I don`t think he counts!

 

He doesn't.