what makes a masterpiece?

[Flex Mentallo]

Been a while since I started a thread and being a relative newby I'm never sure that I'm going to come up with something that hasnt been thought of by the boffins of the boards a hundred times before.

 

So if that is the case here this thread will die a quick and painless death and that's okay.

 

The art critic John Berger once said that the trouble with art school is that it teaches students that there is no point in making a work of art unless they aim to make a masterpiece. It's a bit like saying that you cant jog unless you aim for Olympic gold. He went on to say that the problem with this notion is that by definition, a masterpiece contains and had resonances far beyond what was envisioned by the artist. Indeed, Berger argued, it is often the case that what makes a masterpiece what it is depends on historical and cultural shifts the artist could not have anticipated!

 

When the Mona Lisa was shipped over to the States for exhibition it was ensured for more than the ocean liner it was ferried in. The day may never come when the last surviving copy of Action #1 achieves such heights of cultural transcendence as Leonardo's all too familiar masterpiece - yet just as that smile has insinuated its way into the collective consumer consciousness through mass reproduction, so it seems that through pop culture comics travel in the opposite direction.

 

Well, pardon me for waxing so pretentious! But you know what? It seems to me that everytime you turn around, someone is claiming that a given comic cover is another "classic cover" (usually with skull, devil, or whatever attached to the description - as though a cover were automatically a classic just because of the motifs incorporated!).

 

Furthermore, the powers that be are more than happy to make the definition for us, whether Overstreet, Gerber or CGC. And there is clearly a commercial factor insofar as value is placed on such declarations....

 

 

 

Matt Baker probably created more classic covers than most, but it isnt PL #17 that I love best, but Teen-age Romances #43. In this image he gives us a sort of x-ray of this bright young girl's romantic imaginings. She stares into the future adoringly. There is a poignancy in this. She seems almost real to us - her personality shines through the lens of her beauty, looking forward with the optimism of youth. And for once, no shadow creeps in to mar her revery! Baker's Mona Lisa...

 

And the composition - does anyone know if, before this cover was published, anyone used this technique before? I'm pretty sure it was used once or twice since.

 

So what is it, in your eyes, fellow boardies, that makes a comic image a masterpiece?

 

Please post your images and learned dissertations here for the edification of all. Feel free to post what you consider a classic image (or perhaps interior), whether sung or unsung. Indeed the more obscure and personal the better!

 

Let the story begin...

 

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

emotion.

 

If it stirs you, it's a masterpiece.

 

If it doesn't it's just an equation. Math.

 

That cover stirs me.

 

 

 

[sacentaur]

 

Classic cover!

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

 

Classic cover!

 

I agree.

[Bunky Brian]

Me 3 its a beauty !

 

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Here is one of the rarer Schomburg Nedors, and I have to ask myself, where would this cover rank in the list of "must-have" GA covers if Schomburg had decided to draw it on a Captain America cover, instead of a new Nedor title with a second rate character like the Grim Reaper? Would it rate right up there with a USA 7?

 

Masterpiece? Probably not. Simple, yet powerful and iconic? Yep.

 

 

 

 

[Pat Calhoun]

thread is nice as is the Baker. I borrowed from GCD but did have this... the moment of self-awareness here strikes me as one of the supreme capturings- almost as much philosophically as artistically- ever to grace a comic cover- thanks

 

[cheetah]

You can't really talk about a masterpiece without a personal understanding of art. I've always felt that art is an intimately personal thing. What strikes one person as a meaningful piece may just be a picture to someone else. I think to reach the masterpiece stage, that intimate connection with the art has to cross cultural, gender, and age boundaries. For comics, I think it means that a broad swath of fandom sees and feels that a cover makes some emotional connection to them. It might fear, love, a fantasy of the future or whatever.

 

Goes without saying that Startling 49 makes that connection with people of all collecting ages. It even influenced modern television.

 

[adamstrange]

Matt Baker probably created more classic covers than most, but it isnt PL #17 that I love best, but Teen-age Romances #43. In this image he gives us a sort of x-ray of this bright young girl's romantic imaginings. She stares into the future adoringly. There is a poignancy in this. She seems almost real to us - her personality shines through the lens of her beauty, looking forward with the optimism of youth. And for once, no shadow creeps in to mar her revery! Baker's Mona Lisa...

 

I think this is a wonderful example of a quiet classic (it's certainly not as in your face as PL 17!). Some covers I like because of they amaze or astound, others, like this one appeal to me when I'm in a contemplative mood and I find myself just sitting and staring for a time without in any way getting tired of the artistry.

 

And the composition - does anyone know if, before this cover was published, anyone used this technique before? I'm pretty sure it was used once or twice since.

Captain Marvel Jr 7depicts Freddy Freeman daydreaming of more interesting pursuits than schoolwork, though of a more exciting nature than those of Baker's schoolgirl.

 

http://www.comics.org/issue/2900/cover/4/?style=default

[adamstrange]

thread is nice as is the Baker. I borrowed from GCD but did have this... the moment of self-awareness here strikes me as one of the supreme capturings- almost as much philosophically as artistically- ever to grace a comic cover- thanks

 

 

It took me a while to warm to Briefer's art but I have since found much to admire.

 

 

[ft88]

The WDCS has quite a few classic covers. 41 (sledding w Mickey) 45 (band w dwarfs) 48 (camping) 69 (gun cover) 88 (new years) 95 (beach w dog)

 

108 is probably a masterpiece by anyones defininition (tiny fishing boat with DD and HDL on it)

 

Here's my choice with near perfect composition and attention to detail for a kiddie book. Tension with Donald from top right through the curve of his body. Triple gag, the bored HDL image (and golf bag) multiple divits, and Snarky Scrooge always accounting.

 

Coloring is a little weak as compared to issues like 41 45 or 48.

 

 

[Darth Corgi]

Great thread! Everyone will have different opinions but it should make for great conversation.

Another excuse to post this cover. Twist my arm. I'm a big fan of this L.B. Cole horror cover and find it stronger than its earlier Suspense version. A big reason is the red background and the pose of the monster...Much more menacing!

[Duffman_Comics]

Matt Baker probably created more classic covers than most, but it isnt PL #17 that I love best, but Teen-age Romances #43. In this image he gives us a sort of x-ray of this bright young girl's romantic imaginings. She stares into the future adoringly. There is a poignancy in this. She seems almost real to us - her personality shines through the lens of her beauty, looking forward with the optimism of youth. And for once, no shadow creeps in to mar her revery! Baker's Mona Lisa...

 

I think this is a wonderful example of a quiet classic (it's certainly not as in your face as PL 17!). Some covers I like because of they amaze or astound, others, like this one appeal to me when I'm in a contemplative mood and I find myself just sitting and staring for a time without in any way getting tired of the artistry.

 

And the composition - does anyone know if, before this cover was published, anyone used this technique before? I'm pretty sure it was used once or twice since.

Captain Marvel Jr 7depicts Freddy Freeman daydreaming of more interesting pursuits than schoolwork, though of a more exciting nature than those of Baker's schoolgirl.

 

http://www.comics.org/issue/2900/cover/4/?style=default

 

Any number of Supersnipe covers would qualify here, but I guess there is a difference between fantasizing (Supersnipe) and daydreaming (the Baker cover) - though it's a fine line.

 

When it comes to iconic/masterpiece covers, my thoughts turn to this. It's not mine (I don't have one ) but I like to think it is right up there with the Startling:

 

[Flex Mentallo]

Matt Baker probably created more classic covers than most, but it isnt PL #17 that I love best, but Teen-age Romances #43. In this image he gives us a sort of x-ray of this bright young girl's romantic imaginings. She stares into the future adoringly. There is a poignancy in this. She seems almost real to us - her personality shines through the lens of her beauty, looking forward with the optimism of youth. And for once, no shadow creeps in to mar her revery! Baker's Mona Lisa...

 

I think this is a wonderful example of a quiet classic (it's certainly not as in your face as PL 17!). Some covers I like because of they amaze or astound, others, like this one appeal to me when I'm in a contemplative mood and I find myself just sitting and staring for a time without in any way getting tired of the artistry.

 

And the composition - does anyone know if, before this cover was published, anyone used this technique before? I'm pretty sure it was used once or twice since.

Captain Marvel Jr 7depicts Freddy Freeman daydreaming of more interesting pursuits than schoolwork, though of a more exciting nature than those of Baker's schoolgirl.

 

http://www.comics.org/issue/2900/cover/4/?style=default

 

I hadnt really noticed that Raboy cover before, but I have to say, it is wonderful. I wonder if Billy has a copy yet?

 

It reminded me that there is another wonderful Matt Baker cover with a similar concept. Not as intense as the Raboy, but arguably more dream-like:

 

 

Girl from the wrong side of the tracks, longing for romantic fulfillment, despairing that she has no chance to fulfil her dreams. And Baker uses a different treatment for the dream, it looks like a painterly wash. The dream crowds out the reality and the clever bit, is that he draws a correspondence between the window and the dream. As she stares out of the window, she looks into that inner world...

 

Therer is a wonderful, and very simple chinese poem, translated by Ezra Pound:

 

Footsteps in the snow.

Plum blossom.

 

A maiden stares from her window at the footsteps of her lover in the snow, receding into the distance into which he has gone. She wonders if they will ever meet again, but then reflects, that the color of the shadowy footsteps are the precise shape and color of the plum blossom in spring. The plum blossom last a fleeting time, love and life are likewise fleeting. Everything passes only to return again.

 

Now maybe its pretentious of me to draw that kind of comparison - but doesnt our awareness that Baker was taken in his prime add an extra layer of poignancy to our view of him and his work? Did he know just how good he was (probably), or could he have imagined how his work would be revered (probably not). I'd like to think so! And I wonder how his work might have grown in depth and complexity had he lived a longer life. Had we seen the best of him?

[Flex Mentallo]

Matt Baker probably created more classic covers than most, but it isnt PL #17 that I love best, but Teen-age Romances #43. In this image he gives us a sort of x-ray of this bright young girl's romantic imaginings. She stares into the future adoringly. There is a poignancy in this. She seems almost real to us - her personality shines through the lens of her beauty, looking forward with the optimism of youth. And for once, no shadow creeps in to mar her revery! Baker's Mona Lisa...

 

I think this is a wonderful example of a quiet classic (it's certainly not as in your face as PL 17!). Some covers I like because of they amaze or astound, others, like this one appeal to me when I'm in a contemplative mood and I find myself just sitting and staring for a time without in any way getting tired of the artistry.

 

And the composition - does anyone know if, before this cover was published, anyone used this technique before? I'm pretty sure it was used once or twice since.

Captain Marvel Jr 7depicts Freddy Freeman daydreaming of more interesting pursuits than schoolwork, though of a more exciting nature than those of Baker's schoolgirl.

 

http://www.comics.org/issue/2900/cover/4/?style=default

 

Any number of Supersnipe covers would qualify here, but I guess there is a difference between fantasizing (Supersnipe) and daydreaming (the Baker cover) - though it's a fine line.

 

When it comes to iconic/masterpiece covers, my thoughts turn to this. It's not mine (I don't have one ) but I like to think it is right up there with the Startling:

 

 

 

Here is my copy of the same book, which is by coincidence also my favourite later cover:

 

 

It is let down by the page quality and is no match for Alan's raw copy, but I'm delighted to have a strong presentable copy of what is - to me personally- the ultimate space opera cover. Why? Simply because the fearsome space-suited warrior is a woman! But there is enormous drama in Whitman's highly detailed composition.

 

Personally, I prefer it to the Startling, but as Cheetah pointed out, the #49 has crossed over into popular culture in a way that few comic images ever have.

 

And that tells us that we are thinking about two different things here, though they are clearly intertwined.

 

What interests me is the personal connection to an image, rather than the public.

 

Because - a little like the Mona Lisa, the Startling 49 is an image with which we are almost overly familiar, ever since it appeared on the album cover.

 

But there is that moment of pure discovery when we first see an image that compels us, which arguably has nothing to do with our awareness of the social significance - or otherwise- of the image.

 

Rembrandt is a good example. Until, x-ray and chemical techniques developed in the mid-20th century, experts had to rely on guesswork (i.e. expert opinion) and rare documents to determine which paintings might be safely ascribed to the master and which to his talented pupils. In the National Gallery in London there are a number of paintings formerly ascribed to Rembrandt which are now thought to be by his pupils. Accordingly there monetary value has crashed to one tenth of what they were previously agreed to be worth.

 

When I looked at those paintings years ago (before they had been re-ascribed to Rembrandt's pupil) and came back to my local art school raving about them, my tutor laughed and said "It's a bit like saying you quite like God!"

 

So Rembrandt is an artistic "god" and when we look at his work, what do we see? The image or the man? And then when we learn that the painting, the demi-masterpiece, is not by Rembrandt, but his pupil, how does it change our perspective? Clearly our view is adulterated by what we know of society's opinion.

 

But can we have a masterpiece to hold in the heart, regardless of consensus? Is a "personal masterpiece" a contradiction in terms?

 

It's the personal, or even "undiscovered" masterpiece that interests me - the one I've yet to see!

[Flex Mentallo]

The WDCS has quite a few classic covers. 41 (sledding w Mickey) 45 (band w dwarfs) 48 (camping) 69 (gun cover) 88 (new years) 95 (beach w dog)

 

108 is probably a masterpiece by anyones defininition (tiny fishing boat with DD and HDL on it)

 

Here's my choice with near perfect composition and attention to detail for a kiddie book. Tension with Donald from top right through the curve of his body. Triple gag, the bored HDL image (and golf bag) multiple divits, and Snarky Scrooge always accounting.

 

Coloring is a little weak as compared to issues like 41 45 or 48.

 

 

The ancient greeks held that comedy was a higher artform than drama. Looking at any of Barks covers tells us that they were absolutely right!

 

Donald is "everyman" and in him we see - and forgive - and laugh at - all of our personal failings. It takes a duck to show us what it is to be human!

[Flex Mentallo]

Here is one of the rarer Schomburg Nedors, and I have to ask myself, where would this cover rank in the list of "must-have" GA covers if Schomburg had decided to draw it on a Captain America cover, instead of a new Nedor title with a second rate character like the Grim Reaper? Would it rate right up there with a USA 7?

 

Masterpiece? Probably not. Simple, yet powerful and iconic? Yep.

 

 

 

 

I agree entirely with what you are saying. If that were a Cap cover we would perceive it very differently.Not that I currently own any of them, I find I prefer second tier Timely characters like the Destroyer over Cap, Sub-mariner and the Human Torch. I guess they feel more exotic somehow.

 

Wonder-ful book by the way! Nedor seem to have been as fertile as Timely in inventing now obscure heroes only to consign them to limbo after a brief trial!

[Flex Mentallo]

thread is nice as is the Baker. I borrowed from GCD but did have this... the moment of self-awareness here strikes me as one of the supreme capturings- almost as much philosophically as artistically- ever to grace a comic cover- thanks

 

 

It took me a while to warm to Briefer's art but I have since found much to admire.

 

 

Yes, he is a highly expressive artist. There is a certain leavening of irony in h is work, which reminds me of Goya's Disparates:

 

[Flex Mentallo]

From the master of romance to the master of fear. It could be argued that this accolade should go to Rudy Palais, but I think Steve Ditko just shades it, with offerings such as this:

 

 

It's one of several "close up" covers in which fear is the governing factor - the others I can think of being Strange Suspense #18 and Thing! #12. TMIH #17 seems to me to be the epitome of fear. Even the creature seems more an incorporeal manifestation of the emotion than a physical entity, and the lurid use of color obviously heightens the intensity of the emotion. The flickering light from the matchstick is the "macguffin" (as Hitchcock valled a mechanism for raising tension, like the key in Ingrid Bergman's hand in "Notorious") that defines the brief moment of illumination before the lights go out forever...

[Straw-Man]

the "it would be a classic if an iconic character was on it instead" notion intrigues the heck out of me [just as the "it would not be special if the iconic character was substitued for" does--supe 1, for example].

 

here's a cover i have always loved, and i think it would be highly desired if one of the big boys was on it.