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high grade is not fun anymore

Started by FlComicFan,

157 posts in this topic

FFB

FFB

Posted
Posted

This entire thread makes me wonder why people give Ian a hard time whenever he whines about getting ripped off by yet another seller. This is the same thing, times 50 of you. Come on people, let's not go off the deep end. High grade collecting is, and always will be, craploads of fun.

 

Let me preface my comments by saying that I can't stand people who sell restored comics as unrestored. I also don't like it when people perform "acceptable" restoration on a book that doesn't need it (wonder bread-ers and book pressers, this does include you 893frustrated.gif).

 

Having said that, it is historical, verifiable fact that high grade comics have been getting dry cleaned and pressed into slightly higher grade comics since long before CGC came along. We have all seen our fair share of 8.0s turn into 8.5s or 9.0s. But how many of those 9.0s are getting ridiculous multiples of guide? Astronomical auction sales are usually reserved for 9.4s and above (with notable exceptions, but they ARE exceptions unless we're talking golden age or a book that is impossible to find in HG), and regardless of what is happening to the VFs in the world, no one has shown me any proof that anyone is cracking 8.0s and turning them into 9.4s or better without getting the PLOD. It just ain't happening. And as for the random 9.4 that gets reslabbed as a 9.6, well, that could happen without cleaning and pressing, couldn't it?

 

If people are paying ridiculous multiples of guide for HG CGC slabbed books simply because of the current state of the census, that is just stupid. Not because I think that Joe Schmoe with a book press and a loaf of bread is going to turn his VFs into Pacific Coast copies, but because the census is still young and there are tons of high grade collectors who haven't bothered to slab their nicest books yet. Paying 40 times guide for a 9.6 simply because you think the census means that no other 9.6s exist anywhere is borderline delusional.

 

But I don't think most people pay ridiculous multiples of guide for a 9.6 simply because there aren't many in the census. I think that most people who are paying ridiculous multiples of guide for HG CGC slabbed books are doing so because they want a HG book and they have more confidence in the grade of the book if the book's in a slab. They also realize that dry cleaning and pressing a book isn't going to turn a VF 8.0 into a NM 9.4. Say what you want, but no one has shown me a single one of these.

 

As for the comment by JC about "What will you do when your 9.6 warps back to its original shape in the slab" comment -- what evidence have we seen that this will happen? I know that Comicwiz posted a couple of fuzzy pics of one or two books that warped in the slab, but how do we know that this was an example of the book being pressed and reverting to form? And what was the grade of the book anyway? What are the real chances that a 9.6 is going to wind up having been a warped 6.0 at some point (yet still have razor sharp corners and no spine stress, which cleaning and pressing won't fix)?

 

Simply put, I love high grade collecting. It is great to see a NM copy of a 40+ year old book. It gets me totally excited about the hobby whenever I see one. And to be perfectly honest with you, the thought that it might have been sandwiched in between a couple of dictionaries for a few months never even enters my mind. Simple pressing isn't going to turn a VF book into a NM or NM+ book. This recent discussion of cleaning and pressing, though it bothers me, will not impede my enjoyment of the hobby, not one bit. tongue.gif

 

boy, its really depressing hear most of you "giving up" on your comics collecting quests.
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joe_collector

joe_collector

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This entire thread makes me wonder why people give Ian a hard time whenever he whines about getting ripped off by yet another seller.

 

Because his threads are a one-man lightshow where he consistently posts vitriol in the guise of looking for sympathy?

 

This thread has a wide range of collectors offering their own opinion on the subject of high-grade collecting.

 

The difference is pretty obvious.

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FFB

FFB

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OK, but aside from that I mean. wink.gif

 

This entire thread makes me wonder why people give Ian a hard time whenever he whines about getting ripped off by yet another seller.

 

Because his threads are a one-man lightshow where he consistently posts vitriol in the guise of looking for sympathy?

 

This thread has a wide range of collectors offering their own opinion on the subject of high-grade collecting.

 

The difference is pretty obvious.

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Shield

Shield

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Posted
Because his threads are a one-man lightshow where he consistently posts vitriol in the guise of looking for sympathy?

 

As opposed to posting vitrol in the guide of whatever it is you guise your posts in?

POV!!!!!!!! acclaim.gifacclaim.gif I've missed you old pal!

 

Seriously though; I agree with the original starter of this thread wholeheartedly. You can't really enjoy these books if a slight crease knocks the value back down! That's why I scan so many books - in case I ever get a high grade copy I can still read the darn thing.

 

I mean c'mon...if you had a NM+ AF #15 or Spiderman #1, you really think anyone's ever going to read that copy again?

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Shield

Shield

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Posted
This entire thread makes me wonder why people give Ian a hard time whenever he whines about getting ripped off by yet another seller. This is the same thing, times 50 of you. Come on people, let's not go off the deep end. High grade collecting is, and always will be, craploads of fun.

 

Let me preface my comments by saying that I can't stand people who sell restored comics as unrestored. I also don't like it when people perform "acceptable" restoration on a book that doesn't need it (wonder bread-ers and book pressers, this does include you 893frustrated.gif).

 

Having said that, it is historical, verifiable fact that high grade comics have been getting dry cleaned and pressed into slightly higher grade comics since long before CGC came along. We have all seen our fair share of 8.0s turn into 8.5s or 9.0s. But how many of those 9.0s are getting ridiculous multiples of guide? Astronomical auction sales are usually reserved for 9.4s and above (with notable exceptions, but they ARE exceptions unless we're talking golden age or a book that is impossible to find in HG), and regardless of what is happening to the VFs in the world, no one has shown me any proof that anyone is cracking 8.0s and turning them into 9.4s or better without getting the PLOD. It just ain't happening. And as for the random 9.4 that gets reslabbed as a 9.6, well, that could happen without cleaning and pressing, couldn't it?

 

If people are paying ridiculous multiples of guide for HG CGC slabbed books simply because of the current state of the census, that is just stupid. Not because I think that Joe Schmoe with a book press and a loaf of bread is going to turn his VFs into Pacific Coast copies, but because the census is still young and there are tons of high grade collectors who haven't bothered to slab their nicest books yet. Paying 40 times guide for a 9.6 simply because you think the census means that no other 9.6s exist anywhere is borderline delusional.

 

But I don't think most people pay ridiculous multiples of guide for a 9.6 simply because there aren't many in the census. I think that most people who are paying ridiculous multiples of guide for HG CGC slabbed books are doing so because they want a HG book and they have more confidence in the grade of the book if the book's in a slab. They also realize that dry cleaning and pressing a book isn't going to turn a VF 8.0 into a NM 9.4. Say what you want, but no one has shown me a single one of these.

 

As for the comment by JC about "What will you do when your 9.6 warps back to its original shape in the slab" comment -- what evidence have we seen that this will happen? I know that Comicwiz posted a couple of fuzzy pics of one or two books that warped in the slab, but how do we know that this was an example of the book being pressed and reverting to form? And what was the grade of the book anyway? What are the real chances that a 9.6 is going to wind up having been a warped 6.0 at some point (yet still have razor sharp corners and no spine stress, which cleaning and pressing won't fix)?

 

Simply put, I love high grade collecting. It is great to see a NM copy of a 40+ year old book. It gets me totally excited about the hobby whenever I see one. And to be perfectly honest with you, the thought that it might have been sandwiched in between a couple of dictionaries for a few months never even enters my mind. Simple pressing isn't going to turn a VF book into a NM or NM+ book. This recent discussion of cleaning and pressing, though it bothers me, will not impede my enjoyment of the hobby, not one bit. tongue.gif

 

boy, its really depressing hear most of you "giving up" on your comics collecting quests.

 

 

I agree with you here, but tell me honestly...does a book really HAVE to go from 8.0 to 9.4 to make that big of a difference price wise? No...please read this thread I started a while back.

 

6.5 to 7.5...POOF!

 

Thoughts?

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LucyBop

LucyBop

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the picture of me is very recent....

 

i am turning 39 years old on 3/25/04......

 

I served in many capacities, started at the tender age of 18 as a fab operator..

 

My last assigment was with VDF diffusion 300mm in Hillsboro Oregon.

 

Equipment tech for a stunt..

 

Process Engineer for latter stages of my career...

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LucyBop

LucyBop

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when I was in equipment, we would get sent to Chandler for equipment training at the C-10 facility off of Chandler BLVD.....

 

at that time I worked at Fab 7 in Rio Rancho...

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LucyBop

LucyBop

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Retired at 38?

 

been buying stock with the employee program since 1985. Also when I became Exempt, the stock options were crazy!!!

 

I still have this stock...

 

 

When I started, they used to also give us free stock into our serp accounts....

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Aman619

Aman619

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Ive stated before that I used to argue that the census is totally unreliable as a guide to scarcity so far. I have many many high grade books accumulated over the years, and since there are a bunch of collectors like me around the country who do not get our books graded, I shuddered to think what will happen to the census when we do.

 

BUT! For those of you who nodded and said "thats me too" .. do yourself a favor. Go downstairs or to mommas house or to the bank vault and take another look at your treasures. You will see that, nice as they are, 98% of them JUST ARENT GONNA BLOW THE CENSUS UP!!! Ill bet you that the further back you go, and especially for keys, there just ARENT a lot of 9.4s out there!!! Im talking about Marvel Keys through 1963. And DCs too, which will IMO end up at most half of Marvels numbers. Sure there are lots of Bethlehems and WMs etc still to surface in a slab, and these will yield a lot of 9.2s and 9.0s, but 9.4s and 9.6s??? I dont think so.

 

As for later SIlver and especially Bronze...well, look out! The same is true IMO but those numbers will swell appreciably. But keep in mind, a 9.4 is a very very nice looking comic and doesnt allow an awful lot of wear and tear. Back in the day we never saw all that many copies in such nice shape. What makes some people think they will suddenly appear?? It used to be that wild prices brought them out. Well, prices couldnt be any wilder than the past 2 years...where are they?

 

Somebody please take me up on my "challenge" - - look at your prized early SA specimens honestly and tell us what grade they are IN TODAY'S EYES!!! Not the grade you bought them in....

 

Im not the biggest CGC fan, but I have grown to appreciate the rarity of super HG books more than ever through their super tight grading (even allowing for their mistakes and flaws, etc)

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Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer

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I kind of like the idea of owning at least a dozen issues of high grade classic Silver Age Marvels, especially when there are only a handfull recorded on the census. You know those behind the counter gems at your local comic shop that I could only gaze at from afar when I was ten years old. I like the idea that I can keep these preserved for many years to come even though I am tempted to crack the slab open and start reading it.

 

Having said all that it does get a tad expensive especially when I see a new issue come up for sale every day that I would love to get my hands on. Hate having to buy a reader copy for every CGC book I own, I'd rather spend the money on a new comic I don't have.

 

Finally, I'd hate to own what you think is a high grade gem for 20 years only to find out much later that you paid for a PLOD. Overall CGC will help preserve these books for future generations. Too bad there wasn't something similar in place to preserve those great classic from the 40's.

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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As opposed to posting vitrol in the guide of whatever it is you guise your posts in?

 

My posts are designed to provoke debate among the forum faithful, on general hobby topics I find interesting or important.

 

I do not start thread after thread airing my own personal laundry like some bizarre "Deals Gone Bad" video collection.

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qualitycomix

qualitycomix

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When the technology sector was booming, I couldn't see paying insane prices for UNPROVEN companies. I stuck to other markets and my losses over the 2 two year "recession" was minimized to a very small amount.

 

The same is true in comics. I stay away from high grade Modern drek which is UNPROVEN as a long term investment. I don't see a problem with buying books off of the newsstand and holding onto them or reselling them, but the buyers who $300, $500, $1000 for these new books b/c they are in 9.8 - 10.0 are going to get burned in the long run.

 

The same is true for high grade late silver and Bronze age books. The print runs on this era were higher and collectors were starting to realize that they needed to take care of their books. Thus there always will be a HUGE number of 9.4 and better books from this era. This genre will be hit hard if there is a correction/crash.

 

High grade books from the early Silver era will be fairly well-insulated except for the books that few can afford ($50K plus). There could be a correction in these books but it will take much less of a hit than other eras.

 

The high grade golden age era has already taken a hit in the last few years. I am not as familiar with that era however and I'm sure others could speak to it better than I.

 

A crash/correction may occur but it will hit different eras differently depending on the supply/demand factors that have always existed in the market.

 

How did this turn into a crash thread again?

 

Brent

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RushComics

RushComics

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I don't think it's so much that the print runs were greater for late Silver and early Bronze books--as much as it is that, by that time, people were saving them and taking care of them.

 

My understanding is that comics in the early 40s had huge print runs. And how many people saved them and kept them in decent shape? One guy named Edgar Church.

 

Charlie.

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