Just a quick question about grading expectations

[BassGMan]

Hi. Just a quick question. If a seller is selling a raw book on Ebay and claims that it is in Near Mint, are you expecting it to be CGC 9.4? A Very Fine + to get a CGC 8.5? and a Near Mint/Mint to get a 9.9 if slabbed? Or are we going by the standards we used to before CGC? What do you all expect out of these kinds of claims? To be honest, some books that look Near Mint to me have been graded at 9.0, sometimes even less if it is a very minor hard to see blemish. Are we expecting Ebay sellers now to grade at CGC levels? Just curious. Thanks------Sid

[PovertyRow]

It really is an open-ended question and one best answered either by your own experience or the experience of others that is shared here.

 

o further confuse things, we have GA, AA , SA, BA and MA grading to consider. So I would say to either know your seller through experience or if you see something you are interested in, ask folks here how that seler grades in our colective experience. Sound ok?

[DiceX]

The last raw NM+ book I bought on eBay turned out to be VG/F.

I would have been happy with anything VF/NM or better.

 

The prices on some raw eBay books seem to make me think people are willing to pay Slabbed prices for these gems.

 

It's getting pretty sad.

[ninanina]

I've gotta look at the seller and his reputation. Unfortuneatly, I don't expect to get a NM when it's advertised and bid accordingly and I am basing that on my personal experiences as a buyer. I recently bought a few Iron Man runs. The sellers described them as NM and they were. But, they also were moderns. So, as mentioned in the previous post, the age of the comic described as NM would/should have a bearing on what you would expect.

[LucyBop]

whenever i buy these raw so-called near mint books,

I expect a very fine book, if thats what I get, I'm usually happy...

[joe_collector]

whenever i buy these raw so-called near mint books,

I expect a very fine book, if thats what I get, I'm usually happy...

 

That's pretty well my outlook as well, assuming a large scan that indicates a VF or higher grade.

[BassGMan]

For example, I think I am a halfway decent grader, been doing it for 25 years and I try to be honest about my grades when I sell on Ebay. If I say a book is Near Mint for example, I really believe it is, CGC may too, or they may call it an 8.5 VF+ because of an offset staple and a few tiny almost unnoticable spine creases only seen on the back cover. I dunno. If I sell you what I state is a NM- will you think I am being dishonest or a lousy grader if you get it slabbed and it comes back as an 8.5? ----Sid

[Rip]

If I sell you what I state is a NM- will you think I am being dishonest or a lousy grader if you get it slabbed and it comes back as an 8.5?

I'll just think your the average (not so good) grader.

[FFB]

I expect nothing. I assume nothing. I don't buy significant books (i.e., anything worth more than $50) unless I have seen a large scan of front and back cover and have a money-back-guarantee in writing prior to auction close. My baseline assumption is that anyone who won't give me both of those things is going to rip me off.

 

Hi. Just a quick question. If a seller is selling a raw book on Ebay and claims that it is in Near Mint, are you expecting it to be CGC 9.4? A Very Fine + to get a CGC 8.5? and a Near Mint/Mint to get a 9.9 if slabbed? Or are we going by the standards we used to before CGC? What do you all expect out of these kinds of claims? To be honest, some books that look Near Mint to me have been graded at 9.0, sometimes even less if it is a very minor hard to see blemish. Are we expecting Ebay sellers now to grade at CGC levels? Just curious. Thanks------Sid

[BassGMan]

If I sell you what I state is a NM- will you think I am being dishonest or a lousy grader if you get it slabbed and it comes back as an 8.5?

I'll just think your the average (not so good) grader.

 

Thanks Rip, these are the kinds of comments I am looking for. Has CGC taught us to be tougher graders or we using a different standard that we used to? I know most people go by Overstreet guidelines but it just seems like a NM is not an NM anymore. Now what used to be an NM is an 8.5 to a 9.6 and so on. I'm sure we have all sent in what we thought would be CGC 9.4s or 9.6s before only to get some 9.0s and 8.5s along with some others we got right. Happens to me at least. And so when it comes time to list on Ebay those NMs are really those 8.5s and up.

 

Overall, it looks like the rule of thumb is to just always assume that the grader had overgraded by a full point or so? -----Sid

[BassGMan]

I expect nothing. I assume nothing. I don't buy significant books (i.e., anything worth more than $50) unless I have seen a large scan of front and back cover and have a money-back-guarantee in writing prior to auction close. My baseline assumption is that anyone who won't give me both of those things is going to rip me off.

 

 

Fantasy, good to know. If a seller does not state that there is a money-back guarantee or post enough large scans, will you contact the seller and ask for more scans or that guarantee prior to close, or just move on and assume that he will not honor a money-back guarantee? ----Sid

[PovertyRow]

Has CGC taught us to be tougher graders or we using a different standard that we used to?

 

Until CGC reveals their exact criteria for grading comics the question is impossible to answer. CGC does not reveal their criteria for establishing a grade. So how can one determine how they stack up? It is a ridiculous situation but it is a real situation.

[Rip]

I do believe CGC has tighten up the upper end like NM+ NM/M etc., but it also seems that on the whole grading has gotten worse in the hobby. I blame the new inexperenced dealers and greed.

I remember when it was common for me to buy books sight unseen. Even large 1K-2K+ purchases from some dealers. Those days seem almost over. Raw grading has gotten worse, dealer trust has gone downhill.

 

 

 

However there are still some great dealers. Also good pictures with a good return policy really go a long ways.

[blutobc]

Modern purchasing

advertised NM - It ought to be NM when received, 9.4

 

Bronze purchasing

advertised NM - Bid as if vf/nm at best, expect vf

 

Silver purchasing

advertised NM - Who the heck knows. If it's really NM quality equal to the standards of a modern NM then you wonder why its' not slabbed. Lately I have seen raw advertised NM silver books going at guide or a little above guide. I have yet to buy a raw silver true NM book. Got a lot of nice VFs that I'm quite happy with though. I actually feel more confortable buying a NM- or VF+, cause then you feel that the seller has at least looked at the book a little.

[BassGMan]

I do believe CGC has tighten up the upper end like NM+ NM/M etc., but it also seems that on the whole grading has gotten worse in the hobby. I blame the new inexperenced dealers and greed.

I remember when it was common for me to buy books sight unseen. Even large 1K-2K+ purchases from some dealers. Those days seem almost over. Raw grading has gotten worse, dealer trust has gone downhill.

 

 

 

However there are still some great dealers. Also good pictures with a good return policy really go a long ways.

 

I can see how this has happened. With the creation of CGC we have all seen how some of our $10 and $20 guide value books are being sold for $100, $200 or even $300 in very high CGC grades (9.6, 9.8, 9.9 and so on). Before CGC for example, if Overstreet said ASM #300 is worth $80 in NM then we may sell our advertised NM for $75 or $100 at the most, maybe alot less. But with a CGC 9.8 all of a sudden it is $700 or maybe even more. With that kind of incentive, I can see why some shady dealers may call there VF+ or NM- book a NM+ book. -----Sid

[LucyBop]

Until CGC reveals their exact criteria for grading comics the question is impossible to answer. CGC does not reveal their criteria for establishing a grade. So how can one determine how they stack up?

 

Excellent point!!!!

 

I am very very curious as to what the criteria is...

 

This will affect what books I send in for grading....

[joe_collector]

I actually feel more confortable buying a NM- or VF+, cause then you feel that the seller has at least looked at the book a little.

 

I'm not sure if devious sellers work this angle, but I am much more comfortable buying from an EBay dealer who offers a wide range of grades. Let's say they have a run of ASM issues with large scans and have grades from VG to NM.

 

If the scans match up somewhat, I'm far more interested in those auctions that someone who lists absolutely everything at NM.

[PovertyRow]

am very very curious as to what the criteria is...

 

As am I - especially after buying my last CGC book - a Mister Mystery 13 graded Fine - (believe me a tough book in anywhere decent grade - or any grade for that matter) only to find over 1" spine splits front and back that, to me, were certainly large enough to merit mention - but no mention. Really really ticked me off and set me against CGC for my pre-code horror books. Now I have no idea what to expect and have no desire to make constant phone calls to get grader notes. I can detect resto and can grade well - that is enough for me and raw books in my hands (except for certain purchases from folks here I trust) are the way for me to go. I am STILL very ticked off about the non-disclosure of a CGC Fine Minus with a 3/4" spione split in the front and a 1" spine split in the back. To my grading a total 1 3/4 inches of spine split deserves one of two things: A VG grade or a Qualified grade. But a straight Fine Minus? Pah!

 

::ya ya ya ya - typoo edits:: "typoo"????

[FFB]

I ask for scans before bidding. If the scans look good, I ask about the refund policy. If I get the old "book is sold as is, no refunds," then I don't bid. I haven't always done it this way, and I've been burned about 80% of the time that I've failed to ask in advance for scans and refund policies.

 

I expect nothing. I assume nothing. I don't buy significant books (i.e., anything worth more than $50) unless I have seen a large scan of front and back cover and have a money-back-guarantee in writing prior to auction close. My baseline assumption is that anyone who won't give me both of those things is going to rip me off.

 

 

Fantasy, good to know. If a seller does not state that there is a money-back guarantee or post enough large scans, will you contact the seller and ask for more scans or that guarantee prior to close, or just move on and assume that he will not honor a money-back guarantee? ----Sid

[shiverbones]

The trick to selling on ebay bassgman, is to grade acurately & build a rep. Once that happens, you will start seeing people bidding on the book at the correct price. You will have to sell a bunch a bit under what you would want until people can adjust their criteria to fit you. It works for banner, it works for me & others. Just whatever you do, grade it right & the buyers WILL catch on.