Why so much attention to Marvels?

[ArAich]

Ah, that Captain Marvel from MF E. He had such a unique super-power.

 

SPLIT!!!

...

[musicmeta]

between Marvel and DC, I'm primarly a Marvel collector, but I like both a lot.

It's just that early Silver Age DC's in high grade are so much harder to find and more expensive. Really like Green Lantern, JLA and the Atom.

[acesilver]

between Marvel and DC, I'm primarly a Marvel collector, but I like both a lot.

It's just that early Silver Age DC's in high grade are so much harder to find and more expensive. Really like Green Lantern, JLA and the Atom.

 

Same here. Most of us read both Marvel and DC growing up IMO. And both were equally enjoyable with their characters and storylines. It would cost most collectors a minor mint to put together Silver HG runs for your Spidey, FF, X-Men Marvel titles. But the supply is accessible to do it. To put a Silver HG DC run of Flash, GL, JLA, etc. will cost comparatively less vs. Marvel. It will also take longer to do because there are fewer submissions and, IMO, more DC collectors hold their books vs. look to cash in. When books do come up you have to wonder if you'll see another anytime soon. That helps push the prices up for DC Silver.

[blowout]

Most of us read both Marvel and DC growing up IMO.

 

Not so sure about that. I was a Marvel zombie while growing up.

[Timely]

Here's the problem, it's a double-edged sword with DC collectors. Investors/collectors hold out on selling because their books are valued at 1/3 of the Marvel titles and "know" the DC's are worth more...so they wait. But they ALL wait, so fewer sales happen and Overstreet views them as "cold" compared to Marvel and the DC's go up 5% whereas the Marvels are flying around everywhere at record paces and OS gives them a 15% boost...making Marvels worth 3 times that of their DC counterparts...and the cycle continues.

 

Timely

[blowout]

making Marvels worth 3 times that of their DC counterparts...and the cycle continues.

 

Add that to the fact that the books are better, and BINGO!

[acesilver]

Here's the problem, it's a double-edged sword with DC collectors. Investors/collectors hold out on selling because their books are valued at 1/3 of the Marvel titles and "know" the DC's are worth more...so they wait. But they ALL wait, so fewer sales happen and Overstreet views them as "cold" compared to Marvel and the DC's go up 5% whereas the Marvels are flying around everywhere at record paces and OS gives them a 15% boost...making Marvels worth 3 times that of their DC counterparts...and the cycle continues.

 

Timely

 

Point well taken. That's why guide goes out the door when the HG DC's actually DO come out.

[tth2]

Here's the problem, it's a double-edged sword with DC collectors. Investors/collectors hold out on selling because their books are valued at 1/3 of the Marvel titles and "know" the DC's are worth more...so they wait. But they ALL wait, so fewer sales happen and Overstreet views them as "cold" compared to Marvel and the DC's go up 5% whereas the Marvels are flying around everywhere at record paces and OS gives them a 15% boost...making Marvels worth 3 times that of their DC counterparts...and the cycle continues.

 

Timely

 

Point well taken. That's why guide goes out the door when the HG DC's actually DO come out.

 

Yes, but their prices still don't compare to Marvel prices. Even at the huge multiples that have recently been paid for CGC 9.4 or better copies of JLA 1-10, GL 1-10, Flash 105-130, Showcase keys, B&B keys, etc., the absolute dollars being paid don't even come close to the prices for FF 1-10, ASM 1-10, JIM 83-100, X-Men 1-10, etc. If you're an investor, the smart money would be on Marvels. The market is much more liquid, and there is less price resistance when you get into five figures.

[Rip]

Yes, but their prices still don't compare to Marvel prices. Even at the huge multiples that have recently been paid for CGC 9.4 or better copies of JLA 1-10, GL 1-10, Flash 105-130, Showcase keys, B&B keys, etc., the absolute dollars being paid don't even come close to the prices for FF 1-10, ASM 1-10, JIM 83-100, X-Men 1-10, etc. If you're an investor, the smart money would be on Marvels. The market is much more liquid, and there is less price resistance when you get into five figures.

What do you base this on? Do you HAVE recent 9.4 sales figures for B&B keys, Showcase Keys etc etc...I'd love to see them Did you compare what the Showcase keys bring at 8.0-8.5?

[tth2]

Yes, but their prices still don't compare to Marvel prices. Even at the huge multiples that have recently been paid for CGC 9.4 or better copies of JLA 1-10, GL 1-10, Flash 105-130, Showcase keys, B&B keys, etc., the absolute dollars being paid don't even come close to the prices for FF 1-10, ASM 1-10, JIM 83-100, X-Men 1-10, etc. If you're an investor, the smart money would be on Marvels. The market is much more liquid, and there is less price resistance when you get into five figures.

What do you base this on? Do you HAVE recent 9.4 sales figures for B&B keys, Showcase Keys etc etc...I'd love to see them Did you compare what the Showcase keys bring at 8.0-8.5?

 

I don't have any data on 8.0-8.5 books, because I primarily focus on NM books, so here's some publicly reported sales on CGC 9.2 or better DCs:

 

9.4 Showcase 34.........$12,000

9.4 GL 1......................$18,975

9.2 GL 1......................$13,225

9.4 GL 2........................$5060

9.4 JLA 5.......................$4830

9.4 JLA 9.......................$4300

 

There are not a lot of transactions because there's not all that many NM copies floating around and coming on the market. But add all of the above prices together and they still don't even add up to the price of the 9.4 X-Men 1 that just sold on Comiclink.

 

Some more data will be available soon, because Heritage's April Signature Auction features a 9.4 B&B 28, 9.2 JLA 1 and 9.2 Flash 105. Throw in the B&B 28, JLA 1 and Flash 105, and I bet even together with the other books above, that the total still won't add up to the price of the 9.4 AF 15 that sold on Comiclink a few weeks ago. Plus, a 9.4 B&B 34 has been sitting on Comiclink at $13,475 for a while now, and a 9.2 Showcase 4 has been sitting on PGCMint at $67k for a while now, both with no takers.

 

So, the multiples over Guide for DC can often be higher than for comparable Marvels, which reflects mostly the fact that high grade early DC are woefully undervalued. But the low absolute dollars shows that there is not huge demand and resistance above $10k. So if you can buy early NM DCs raw at Guide and slab them as 9.4s, you'll make more money percentage-wise than by doing the same thing with Marvels. But if you want to make more in terms of absolute dollars and also want more assurance that you'll have a market for your books, then Marvel is the only way to go. The buyer of the Diamond Run 9.4 AF 15 bought it for $85k or so several years ago, and recently flipped it on Comiclink for $120k, so a gain of over $30k for one transaction. JP will probably make at least $10k for an even quicker flip of the 9.6 ASM 1 that's on eBay right now. You'd have to buy and sell a bunch of DCs to net a similar profit.

[Aces]

making Marvels worth 3 times that of their DC counterparts...and the cycle continues.

 

Add that to the fact that the books are better, and BINGO!

 

[Rip]

I don't have any data on 8.0-8.5 books, because I primarily focus on NM books, so here's some publicly reported sales on CGC 9.2 or better DCs:

9.4 Showcase 34.........$12,000

9.4 GL 1......................$18,975

9.2 GL 1......................$13,225

9.4 GL 2........................$5060

9.4 JLA 5.......................$4830

9.4 JLA 9.......................$4300

There are not a lot of transactions because there's not all that many NM copies floating around and coming on the market. But add all of the above prices together and they still don't even add up to the price of the 9.4 X-Men 1 that just sold on Comiclink.

 

 

 

One of the reasons I stated 8.0-8.5 is because there is little data on most of the major DC keys at 9.4. Certainly you can find some data on some of the smaller keys. But your quote was stated as if your acually HAD 9.4 "BB and Showcase keys" to really compare with. If you look, there isn't much. But if you look at the information we DO have you can make some interesting comparisons. Showcase is clearly one of the most expensive titles in the Silver age

 

Showcase 4 8.5 $18,400.00  

Showcase 8 (8.0) - $4,830.00   8.0- Bethlehem pedigree $6,900.00  

Showcase 9 (9.2) - $13,225.00  

Showcase 10 (7.0) - $1,650.00

Showcase 12 (7.5) - $799.98

Showcase 13 (7.5) - $2,185.00

Showcase 14 (6.5) (4) $895.61 (8.5) - $3,910.00

Showcase 22 (8.5) - $5,175.00

Showcase 23 (7.0) - $735.00

 

That's one of the biggest problems with DC's. They just aren't out there in at 9.4 in any large readable numbers. Its not some mythical "price resistance when you get into five figures." But one of the problems is that they change hands less often and they are many fewer copies to make sales reports with. No doubt Marvels rule the silver age in total value, but I think the picture your painting is far to bleak.

[Mushroom]

I have to say that most of the Marvel guys sprouting out as to why DC SA don't get as high prices as Marvel SA are talking out your arse's. First off...you are comparing BB 28's with AF 15's. C'mon.....AF #15 should be compared to a tec #27 or at the least Bat #1. I

 

As for investors holding onto SA HG because they can only get one third of what Marvel's get.....I hate to burst your bubble but a large percentage of DC SA HG is in collections not investment portfolios.

[Rip]

As for investors holding onto SA HG because they can only get one third of what Marvel's get.....I hate to burst your bubble but a large percentage of DC SA HG is in collections not investment portfolios.

[FFB]

I agree that AF #15 is not a valid comparison with B&B 28, but I think that X-Men #1 or FF#1 are valid comparisons with B&B 28. But no way is AF#15 a valid comparison with Detective 27 or Batman #1. Those books are more than 20 years older than AF #15 and much harder to find in ANY grade, let alone high grade.

 

Also, I think that the main reason why SA DCs don't command "Marvel-ous" prices is because there simply is not as much demand for them in terms of numbers of collectors who want them. SA DC collectors are certainly rabid and many of them have deep resources to drive prices of those books up, but the group of collectors does not have sufficient numbers to drive the prices into the stratosphere with continuous bidding wars, as happens with HG SA Marvels.

 

I have to say that most of the Marvel guys sprouting out as to why DC SA don't get as high prices as Marvel SA are talking out your arse's. First off...you are comparing BB 28's with AF 15's. C'mon.....AF #15 should be compared to a tec #27 or at the least Bat #1. I

 

As for investors holding onto SA HG because they can only get one third of what Marvel's get.....I hate to burst your bubble but a large percentage of DC SA HG is in collections not investment portfolios.

[Rip]

I agree that AF #15 is not a valid comparison with B&B 28, but I think that X-Men #1 or FF#1 are valid comparisons with B&B 28. But no way is AF#15 a valid comparison with Detective 27 or Batman #1. Those books are more than 20 years older than AF #15 and much harder to find in ANY grade, let alone high grade.

It all depends on how you want to make comparisons.

One could say Showcase 8 would go for more than X-men 1

 

X-men 1 (8.0) (4) $3,853.50

Showcase 8 (8.0) - $4,830.00   8.0- Bethlehem pedigree $6,900.00  

 

as for Showcase 4 vs AF 15

 

AF 15 (8.5) - $19,200.00

Showcase 4 8.5 $18,400.00

 

Who would think Showcase 9 would go for more than DD 1

as for Showcase 9 vs Daredevil 1

 

Showcase 9 (9.2) - $13,225.00  

Daredevil 1 (9.4) (4) $13,232.78

 

Of cource Marvel has 3 9.4 books that has hit 100k (Hulk 1, FF 1 and ASM 1) while DC only has (most likely) 1

 

If you were to add up all the major keys Marvel would win no prob, but I think DC's are better than you think.

 

 

[Rip]

whoops I mean AF 15....

Thats what I get for typing these things at work....

[Timely]

Here's a good forum question: Would you rather have a CGC 9.4...

 

Amazing Fantasy #15 (NM Guide is $48,000)

 

Or this DC group in CGC 9.4...?

 

Flash #105 ($7500)

B&B #28 (7500)

JLA #1 ($5300)

Green Lantern #1 ($4200)

Showcase #22 ($6400)

S G Lois Lane #1 ($5200)

B&B #34 ($3200)

Showcase #17 ($3200)

Showcase #30 ($1050)

Showcase #34 ($1800)

Mystery into Space #53 ($2400)

-----------------------------------------------

Guide for this group is $47,750

 

Which would you take? and why?

 

Timely

[FFB]

I would take the AF 15 in a heartbeat. Why? Say it with me...

 

Read the books and buy what you like.

Read the books and buy what you like.

Read the books and buy what you like.

 

I like Spidey and I don't know a damned thing about any of those other Brand Ecch heroes.

 

Here's a good forum question: Would you rather have a CGC 9.4...

 

Amazing Fantasy #15 (NM Guide is $48,000)

 

Or this DC group in CGC 9.4...?

 

Flash #105 ($7500)

B&B #28 (7500)

JLA #1 ($5300)

Green Lantern #1 ($4200)

Showcase #22 ($6400)

S G Lois Lane #1 ($5200)

B&B #34 ($3200)

Showcase #17 ($3200)

Showcase #30 ($1050)

Showcase #34 ($1800)

Mystery into Space #53 ($2400)

-----------------------------------------------

Guide for this group is $47,750

 

Which would you take? and why?

 

Timely

[Rip]