Grant Morrison

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Don't listen to what I say.

 

Simply consider: how many runs that are considered "classics" by the comics community at large have been written by Grant Morrison? How many people seek out books specifically because they were written by Grant Morrison?

 

Now, how many were written by Johns?

 

Geoff Johns tells a decent story. But I have yet to read a Geoff Johns story that punched me in the gut, like Animal Man #15 did. I have yet to read a Geoff Johns story that dazzled my mind, like Doom Patrol #19-22 did. I have yet to read a Geoff Johns story that really got to me like We3 did.

 

Geoff Johns is an excellent journeyman. No doubt.

 

But he is not now, nor likely will he be (if his past work is any sign), a master.

 

Alan Moore. Frank Miller. Neil Gaiman. Garth Ennis. Kurt Busiek. Brian Vaughan. Robert Kirkman. Bill Willingham. Mark Waid.

 

These are people with acknowledged comics masterpieces under their fingers, works that are sought out because that work far excelled above everything else being published. Grant Morrison fits comfortably in that list.

 

I do not doubt that people enjoyed Sinestro Corps. I do not doubt that they enjoyed his run on Flash. I do not doubt that he is a tremendously valuable asset to DC. But, much like Gerry Conway in the 70's, Bill Mantlo in the 80's, and Scott Lobdell in the 90's, Johns' work is adequate, but will never live up to the masters mentioned above.

 

Still don't believe me...?

 

Name a single comic or series that Johns wrote that is sought after, popular, "hot" because Johns wrote it.

An excellent post!

 

Except for one thing: what is Robert Kirkman doing in a list populated by geniuses?

 

I admit, THE WALKING DEAD is a relatively nice soap opera (with Zombies), but it really pales in comparison to some of the masterpieces that Morrison, Moore, Miller, Waid, and the other giants have written

 

Kirkman's Invincible is consistently one of the best superhero comics ever written. That plus WD is a pretty nice resume.

Yet Geoff Johns Green Lantern isnt on the list. What BS.. And his last Flash run was AMAZING!

[Old Fashion PB and J]

When I think about the last Flash run with the death of Bart Allen I just wanna kick someone in the nutz for not bringing this up. And Rogues Revenge, sweet sweet mini series!

[rob_react]

Johns aspires to be a great super-hero genre writer, and rarely disappoints-- Flash Rebirth comes to mind. Morrison aspires to be a great writer, often using the conventions of superhero comics, and occasionally misses.

 

In addition to We3 and AllStar Superman, I'd point to the first 30some odd issues of the 1990s JLA reboot as evidence of recent Morrison greatness.

 

JLA. Heck yes.

[rob_react]

Also, whoever mentioned seven soldiers... heck yes again.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Also, whoever mentioned seven soldiers... heck yes again.

Your avatar photo reminds me of Kenny Powers.

[fastballspecial]

And to be honest if Geoff Johns wrote "My little pony" I would be all over that like Northstar on Puck....

 

I almost spit my drink out on that one.

 

[fastballspecial]

Johns has never written anything bad. He is the ONLY reason I started reading DC. He has cleaned up ALOT of DC continuity his runs on Hawkman, and Justice Society are my personal favorites. He MADE Green Lantern starting with Rebirth he has not lost momentum with the character.

 

Morrison is done IMO. His run on Batman sucked monkey ballz, Final Crisis was garbage, and honestly I dont what he has done that I did like. Maybe Batman and Robin, but not Batman. I guess I started a flame war for the hanger-ons, but honestly I never read the Doom Patrol or Animal Man stuff so to me he just writes krap now.

 

I agree with all of this pretty much, but AS Superman was pretty good even though it had Quitely art.

 

Think of it like this. Readers cheer when they hear Johns is coming to their books. Do the same readers cheer when they hear Morrison is coming?

 

Didnt think so. Again not dismissing his talent just saying he aint what he used to be and as someone already mentioned his day in the sun is well you know.

 

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Johns has never written anything bad. He is the ONLY reason I started reading DC. He has cleaned up ALOT of DC continuity his runs on Hawkman, and Justice Society are my personal favorites. He MADE Green Lantern starting with Rebirth he has not lost momentum with the character.

 

Morrison is done IMO. His run on Batman sucked monkey ballz, Final Crisis was garbage, and honestly I dont what he has done that I did like. Maybe Batman and Robin, but not Batman. I guess I started a flame war for the hanger-ons, but honestly I never read the Doom Patrol or Animal Man stuff so to me he just writes krap now.

 

I agree with all of this pretty much, but AS Superman was pretty good even though it had Quitely art.

 

Think of it like this. Readers cheer when they hear Johns is coming to their books. Do the same readers cheer when they hear Morrison is coming?

 

Didnt think so. Again not dismissing his talent just saying he aint what he used to be and as someone already mentioned his day in the sun is well you know.

 

Geoff Johns has done more for DC comics then any other writer, ever! He has introduced, and straightened out continuity. He isnt just writing runs on books, he is making the past and present make sense for a better future for characters. Until someone like Morrison comes by, writes Batman RIP and :censored:s it all up. But seriously I would have to say Johns reads everything about a character before starting and masters them. He proved with the Justice Society, Flash (3 times now!), Action Comics, Green Lantern (my favorite), and Hawkman (his run is one of my favorites). The guys a ing continuity buff!

[Old Fashion PB and J]

And to be honest if Geoff Johns wrote "My little pony" I would be all over that like Northstar on Puck....

 

I almost spit my drink out on that one.

 

My bad..

[Scott Goodman]

Don't listen to what I say.

 

Simply consider: how many runs that are considered "classics" by the comics community at large have been written by Grant Morrison? How many people seek out books specifically because they were written by Grant Morrison?

 

Now, how many were written by Johns?

 

Geoff Johns tells a decent story. But I have yet to read a Geoff Johns story that punched me in the gut, like Animal Man #15 did. I have yet to read a Geoff Johns story that dazzled my mind, like Doom Patrol #19-22 did. I have yet to read a Geoff Johns story that really got to me like We3 did.

 

Geoff Johns is an excellent journeyman. No doubt.

 

But he is not now, nor likely will he be (if his past work is any sign), a master.

 

Alan Moore. Frank Miller. Neil Gaiman. Garth Ennis. Kurt Busiek. Brian Vaughan. Robert Kirkman. Bill Willingham. Mark Waid.

 

These are people with acknowledged comics masterpieces under their fingers, works that are sought out because that work far excelled above everything else being published. Grant Morrison fits comfortably in that list.

 

I do not doubt that people enjoyed Sinestro Corps. I do not doubt that they enjoyed his run on Flash. I do not doubt that he is a tremendously valuable asset to DC. But, much like Gerry Conway in the 70's, Bill Mantlo in the 80's, and Scott Lobdell in the 90's, Johns' work is adequate, but will never live up to the masters mentioned above.

 

Still don't believe me...?

 

Name a single comic or series that Johns wrote that is sought after, popular, "hot" because Johns wrote it.

An excellent post!

 

Except for one thing: what is Robert Kirkman doing in a list populated by geniuses?

 

I admit, THE WALKING DEAD is a relatively nice soap opera (with Zombies), but it really pales in comparison to some of the masterpieces that Morrison, Moore, Miller, Waid, and the other giants have written

 

Kirkman's Invincible is consistently one of the best superhero comics ever written. That plus WD is a pretty nice resume.

 

I don't think Invincible and Walking Dead are anywhere in the league of Watchmen, Swamp Thing, Miracleman and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow by Moore; Dark Knight by Miller nor Gaiman's Sandman. And although I love Invincible, I consider it just a really good superhero comic. It doesn't make me want to go back and reread it until my trade paperbacks are ragged and falling apart like Moore did with Saga of the Swamp Thing (the Anatomy Lesson) and Miller did with Dark Knight and Morrison did with Animal Man and Doom Patrol.

Honestly, I think Kurt Busiek and Mark Waid are getting way more credit than they deserve on some of these posts because I think they are on the same level as Geoff Johns.

I tend to look at Johns for DC as a Roger Stern or Steve Englehart for Marvel -- writers of some really good, solid runs. Morrison is writing stories that are considered classics and, rightfully, should be considered in the same league as Moore and Miller and Gaiman.

I look at what Morrison did with the X-Men as a prime example of how great he is at telling a classic story. From start to finish, it was a great run, but when you read the entire run altogether, you can see it for the epic that it truly is.

Johns, however, had a brief run on the Avengers which was pretty lackluster (and he wasn't helped by the change in artists throughout his run). Johns also wrote some pretty forgettable Superman stories and although I loved his Teen Titans, I also hated some of those later story arcs. It was the same with JSA.

I have loved most of Johns' Green Lantern, but they don't go any higher than being just really good entertaining super-hero comics. And I have yet to enjoy his Flash stories (and I'm a huge Flash fan)...

[rob_react]

Also, whoever mentioned seven soldiers... heck yes again.

Your avatar photo reminds me of Kenny Powers.

 

I don't know who that is. My avatar is just a picture of me.

 

 

 

[fastballspecial]

Don't listen to what I say.

 

Simply consider: how many runs that are considered "classics" by the comics community at large have been written by Grant Morrison? How many people seek out books specifically because they were written by Grant Morrison?

 

Now, how many were written by Johns?

 

Geoff Johns tells a decent story. But I have yet to read a Geoff Johns story that punched me in the gut, like Animal Man #15 did. I have yet to read a Geoff Johns story that dazzled my mind, like Doom Patrol #19-22 did. I have yet to read a Geoff Johns story that really got to me like We3 did.

 

Geoff Johns is an excellent journeyman. No doubt.

 

But he is not now, nor likely will he be (if his past work is any sign), a master.

 

Alan Moore. Frank Miller. Neil Gaiman. Garth Ennis. Kurt Busiek. Brian Vaughan. Robert Kirkman. Bill Willingham. Mark Waid.

 

These are people with acknowledged comics masterpieces under their fingers, works that are sought out because that work far excelled above everything else being published. Grant Morrison fits comfortably in that list.

 

I do not doubt that people enjoyed Sinestro Corps. I do not doubt that they enjoyed his run on Flash. I do not doubt that he is a tremendously valuable asset to DC. But, much like Gerry Conway in the 70's, Bill Mantlo in the 80's, and Scott Lobdell in the 90's, Johns' work is adequate, but will never live up to the masters mentioned above.

 

Still don't believe me...?

 

Name a single comic or series that Johns wrote that is sought after, popular, "hot" because Johns wrote it.

An excellent post!

 

Except for one thing: what is Robert Kirkman doing in a list populated by geniuses?

 

I admit, THE WALKING DEAD is a relatively nice soap opera (with Zombies), but it really pales in comparison to some of the masterpieces that Morrison, Moore, Miller, Waid, and the other giants have written

 

Kirkman's Invincible is consistently one of the best superhero comics ever written. That plus WD is a pretty nice resume.

 

I don't think Invincible and Walking Dead are anywhere in the league of Watchmen, Swamp Thing, Miracleman and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow by Moore; Dark Knight by Miller nor Gaiman's Sandman. And although I love Invincible, I consider it just a really good superhero comic. It doesn't make me want to go back and reread it until my trade paperbacks are ragged and falling apart like Moore did with Saga of the Swamp Thing (the Anatomy Lesson) and Miller did with Dark Knight and Morrison did with Animal Man and Doom Patrol.

Honestly, I think Kurt Busiek and Mark Waid are getting way more credit than they deserve on some of these posts because I think they are on the same level as Geoff Johns.

I tend to look at Johns for DC as a Roger Stern or Steve Englehart for Marvel -- writers of some really good, solid runs. Morrison is writing stories that are considered classics and, rightfully, should be considered in the same league as Moore and Miller and Gaiman.

I look at what Morrison did with the X-Men as a prime example of how great he is at telling a classic story. From start to finish, it was a great run, but when you read the entire run altogether, you can see it for the epic that it truly is.

Johns, however, had a brief run on the Avengers which was pretty lackluster (and he wasn't helped by the change in artists throughout his run). Johns also wrote some pretty forgettable Superman stories and although I loved his Teen Titans, I also hated some of those later story arcs. It was the same with JSA.

I have loved most of Johns' Green Lantern, but they don't go any higher than being just really good entertaining super-hero comics. And I have yet to enjoy his Flash stories (and I'm a huge Flash fan)...

 

Johns run was brief on Avengers because they wanted him to stretch out his stories for trades. It was the main reason he left and unless Marvel coughs up a ton of cash I doubt he will ever come back. Sucks too I would love for him to come over to Marvel and clean up some of that writers have done. He has done it all over DC and doesnt get the credit he deserves because of it.

[Prince Namor]

The problem is that Johns works under the constraints of superhero properties that will be protected at all costs, in an industry that has perverted the concept of key issues by making an event out of storyline simply to sell books as opposed to moving along the story.

Johns works exceptionally well within this constrained picture frame, maybe as well as anyone within the industry currently.

That is why RMA compared him to some of the writers he did from previous decades.

Because unfortunately for Johns, as with those compared to writers, those stories will later be manipulated or even changed based upon whatever focus some future writer has, or what DC deems necessary to promote a movie or whatever.

They lose any power they may have had in the closed universe they exist.

 

Unless Johns goes independent and really shows off some previously unknown ability to write outside the picture frame, he'll ultimately be remembered for making DC comics interesting again and that's it.

 

Morrison, grant(ed), in an earlier period of comics history was able to take two books that nobody gave two sheets about and write WAY outside the picture frame and create two classic runs that still hold up even today (Animal Man, Doom Patrol)

Nobody CARES if someone messes with what Grant does with those characters, because Grant is the only on who ever wrote anything worthy for them in the first place and DC isn't exactly chomping at the bit to make a movie out of them.

 

[Prince Namor]

Same with Watchmen, Miracleman, Dark Knight Returns, etc.

 

They exist outside of the normal 'properties' universe; they are separate and contained, and thus free (when written and for quite some time afterwards) from editorial tinkering, and for the most part any reimaging.

 

Some might say the worst thing Frank Miller could've ever done was revisit that Dark Knight storyline because he'd achieved what he needed to and was in a lose-lose situation no matter what he did to follow up. The story was 'protected' from interference. He'd written what he wanted and was true to his idea. Leave it be.

 

And as much junk as Alan Moore wrote for Image, I still think (based on two issues and his notes) the Moore/Skroce Youngblood could've been special.

No. Seriously.

[JayT]

Let's be fair. Johns work under the constraints he chooses to work under (he is an executive, not just a writer) and as noted before, Morrison had blockbusters with two (relatively) very mainstream titles in X -Men and JLA. These were both huge movers (again, relative to the era).

 

I think we can still praise Johns without relegating Morrison as somebody who only works well in books that aren't existing in already iconic parameters.I'm not so sure Flash and Green Lantern were anymore protected as sacred cows as what Morrison has worked with: Batman (when the movies were hitting) and All-Star Superman (a new Superman film was always coming). Again: Justice League of America was a top seller under Morrison and All-Star Superman is among the best Superman runs ever.

 

Morrison's JLA is essentially almost the blueprint of what modern mainstream team books strive to be and was pre-Authority (which was and is salient today, and what many team books tend to echo).

[rob_react]

 

And as much junk as Alan Moore wrote for Image,

 

The WldCATS stuff was good (and the art was damn pretty)

[followtheleader]

WE3 was great times.

 

I liked Batman Asylum too.

 

But the current Batman series is not very good. Personally, I think Damian is a pretty poor character. And the whole double-death of Batman was awful.

 

I may be the exception, but I thought Seven Soldiers was a massive disappointment. It's a theme of the current Morrison, it sounds great but never finishes (or super poorly).

 

FF1234 was pretty good too.

 

Pat

[Prince Namor]

Let's be fair. Johns work under the constraints he chooses to work under (he is an executive, not just a writer) and as noted before, Morrison had blockbusters with two (relatively) very mainstream titles in X -Men and JLA. These were both huge movers (again, relative to the era).

 

Yes Johns does. And he's great at it. And he'll be remembered for some of his work as enjoyable but not classic. Somewhat the way Morrison is remembered for his X-men and JLA, enjoyable but not classic lime his Doom Patrol or Animal Man.

Remember, we're not talking sales. We're talking runs that are reprinted in tpb form almost 20 years after the fact. Critically acclaimed.

Will Blackest Night be remembered that way? Grant's X-Men?

 

Morrison's JLA is essentially almost the blueprint of what modern mainstream team books strive to be and was pre-Authority (which was and is salient today, and what many team books tend to echo).

 

Have they had two men kiss yet?

[followtheleader]

Let's be fair. Johns work under the constraints he chooses to work under (he is an executive, not just a writer) and as noted before, Morrison had blockbusters with two (relatively) very mainstream titles in X -Men and JLA. These were both huge movers (again, relative to the era).

 

Yes Johns does. And he's great at it. And he'll be remembered for some of his work as enjoyable but not classic. Somewhat the way Morrison is remembered for his X-men and JLA, enjoyable but not classic lime his Doom Patrol or Animal Man.

Remember, we're not talking sales. We're talking runs that are reprinted in tpb form almost 20 years after the fact. Critically acclaimed.

Will Blackest Night be remembered that way? Grant's X-Men?

 

Morrison's JLA is essentially almost the blueprint of what modern mainstream team books strive to be and was pre-Authority (which was and is salient today, and what many team books tend to echo).

 

Have they had two men kiss yet?

 

I understand your premise. The concern is that some of Johns work should be remembered for a long time.

 

JSA was full of "dead" characters. If you asked most comic readers before his huge run, few would know the characters. He made them relevant again. And they were very well written.

 

Frankly, though Flash was a well-known character, he completely revitalized that character too. Fantastic reading on his run. In my opinion, probably the best Flash (yeah, even over Waid). Flash was irrevelant before he took over and really bad when he left. NOTE: Good opportunity to mention the latest volume written by Johns. It's been pretty fun!

 

Johns' strong suit is not necessarily the main charactrers, but rather the villians. He took what had become circus-esque Flash villians and made them fun with real threats. Especially the Rogues.

 

Morrison is good at some of the same things mentioned above. My personal feeling is that Morrison should stick to the non-super hero and vertigo-esque books. Batman, in the main DC setting/book, is not the best fit.

 

Pat

[Prince Namor]

Real threats don't exist in an open universe because they can always be retconned, or ignored or changed.

In a closed universe they are final. Rorschach has been dead for what, 24 years? That makes his death a lot more real than Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, etc. could ever be.

 

At this point, even if DC makes the mistake of bringing those Watchmen characters back, it's etched in the minds of readers that character is dead.

 

And I'd also rather see Morrison on something than Batman.