Post-Signatures

[PovertyRow]

Signatures have certainly become an aspect of collecting. I never liked them but that is just my collector's perspective - except under one condition which I have yet to find.

 

That condition is if the signtaure had some historical relevance to whatever book is signed.

 

For example, I have a STRANGE FANTASY 9 from 12/53. It is, according to OS, Steve Ditkos's 3rd published work. (am glad to have this copy - the same cover was used to wrap reprints as well - the original is a bit scarce).

 

Anyway, should CGC be able to conviince Ditko to do a signing (yeah - right) and this book is signed 49 years after it is published - for me that means absolutely nothing. Even though Ditko DID draw (and probaly inked as was their lot in those days) the story, a signature 49 years later has nothing more than a very general relevance to that particular book. It feels more like a production line.

 

Now, had Farrell Comics took that SF 9 to Ditko in 1953 and said "Hey! Here's the book you frew. Care to sign it?" Now that is a sig I can get behind!

 

Am I alone in this thinking?

[aardvark88]

In the 02Dec Heritage auction, there was a SOTI h/c that was inscribed by Dr Fredrick Wertham in 1955(?). Can't recall if it had a dustjacket, but I believe the price realized was over $200. This is good money considering most vintage bk collectors place most (over 90%) of the value in the dustjacket.

For myself, I lined up & had my silver signed by creators on the bottom of pg. 1 b4 Cgc. With advent of Cgc now, I would have my slabs signed on the front (like Supa had Romita Sr sign his ASM slabs).

[Kevin Boyd]

If it's not your cup of tea, then don't buy signed books or get your books signed. I don't think it's fair to pass judgment on people that do.

 

Thousands of collectors and fans bring their older comics to conventions to get the artists and writers to sign them every year. Are they suffering from a bad case of misjudgement? A few weeks ago I watched Sal Buscema sign stacks of Hulks, Spectacular Spider-Mans, Roms, She-Hulks, et al. that were at least twenty years old. I'm sure that those fans are very happy with those signed comics and consider them to have some "meaning" for them, even though they may have read and bought them 20 years before.

 

IF you did buy new books are you saying then that you would only buy books signed around the time of publication? Because most books in the CGC Signature Series are new books, published in 2001-2, signed in 2001-2.

 

A signature is a signature. If Ditko had signed it in 1953 chances are you wouldn't have any verification of that fact - unless you saw him signed it in front of you.

 

Let me ask you this, if someone WAS selling Pre-Marvel Atlas horror issues with Ditko's signatures on them on e-bay, claiming that he signed them for them in the late 1950's/early 1960's (and their word was the only verification) would you take their word for it and pony up a bid?

 

Kev

[Bugaboo-migration]

Kev......since when the hell was he passing judgement on anyone??? He was saying what his opinion was and asking if anyone else held the same opinion or to give an oposing opinion.

 

People get too defensive in here sometimes. If you don't mind a current signature on a 50 year old book, then just say that and maybe give your reasons why. But if someone doesn't like signatures given 50 years after the fact and gives their reasons why.....then I can respect that.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

To date, I own 0, zero, none, zilch, nada books with a signature by the artist/writer of the book. There are a few artists that I wouln't mind having their signature (such as Jim Lee and Todd Mcfarlane), but I think I would rather ask them to do a quick sketch with their signature, or pay them a consignment fee to do a finished B&W drawing with their signature, than to take a factory printed copy of the original comic book and ADD a signature that was never intended to be there. On the other hand, it's a lot cheaper to have an artist/writer sign a factory printed book than to pay them a consignment fee. Would you want to own the Stan Lee "pedigree" each book identified by his signature? !

 

 

"To each his own", "different strokes for different folks".

 

 

 

[chrisco37]

I used to get my books signed, but don't anymore. I have Ron Frenz signature on ASM #252, Roger Stern on ASM #239, a couple of Marshall Rogers Surfer's, McFarlane Spidey #1. I like 'em, but don't do it anymore because in the case that I ever sell my books, it seems (unless you have a signature series that verifies the sig) they'll sell for more without them.

 

Chris

[OldGuy]

I think what Kev is saying is that his 9.4 FF 1, Amazing 1, X-Men 1, etc.... with signatures on the covers are all just as good as books without sigs.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

You brought up a very good point, when it comes to signatures. I wouldn't buy a book on eBay that claims to be signed without a Certificate of Authenticity (or a slabbed Signature Series book). Many people are quite capable of forging signatures (I probably could if I wanted to), and unless your right there to watch, you have no way of really KNOWING.

 

That said, I would prefer to have a quick sketch or finished original B&W with a signature...

 

[chromium]

A sketch is cool, but what about a writer then ?

You can't ask them for a short bit of prose next to the signature...

 

I'm mainly a writer's fan...and those signatures are not that common.

They also do not nothing for the value of the book, but The Marvel Masterworks Hulk 1-6 I have signed by Stan Lee is one of mu most prized posessions...

 

I got it through Marvel and because it was won in a competition in the early 90's it can probably be verified as authentic, but it (of course) has no certificate of authenticity

[PovertyRow]

I don't think it's fair to pass judgment on people that do.

 

I am not passing judgement. I am expressing my feeling as a collector about signatures.

 

Let me ask you this, if someone WAS selling Pre-Marvel Atlas horror issues with Ditko's signatures on them on e-bay, claiming that he signed them for them in the late 1950's/early 1960's (and their word was the only verification) would you take their word for it and pony up a bid?

 

You are missing my point. Again, I am expressing my opinion as a collector as to wyhat could make a signature important to me. It is funny. In the poster world I often get the same reaction wjhen I say I would rather have an unsigned FRANKENSTEIN 1-sheet than one that the cast signed 30 years later.

 

So no judgements - expressing my perception. OK???

[PovertyRow]

IF you did buy new books are you saying then that you would only buy books signed around the time of publication? Because most books in the CGC Signature Series are new books, published in 2001-2, signed in 2001-2.

 

I called this thread Post-Signatures meaning books that are signed long after they are published.

 

Not being a signature fan, for me the signature would have to have some historical importance. Using the FRANKENSTEIN poster scenario - I think it would be an amazing thing if, during the wrap party for that movie, someone took in a copy of the poster (they are usually printed up well ahead of time) and the cast signed it at that wrap party. Kind of a celebratory thing. Similar thing with a comic, where, say, Bill Gaines brought a few copies of the latest issues to the offices and the writers, artists etc signed them.

 

And I am talking about circumstances here, not would I buy one on e-bay and would I take someone's word for it. Just what kind of signature I find interesting, and was hoping to hear what kind others find interesting.

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

And the common judgment is that collectors in general don't like signed books even though there are a ton of them getting signed.

 

Perhaps I don't understand how this came up? Did you come across an older book with a recent signature that got you thinking about this.

 

Perhaps you misunderstood my question. Let me rephrase:

 

If an historical signature is important to you as a collector, as you just mentioned again, how would you know that it was a genuine signature if you came across one on e-bay?

 

I used the example of a Pre-Marvel Atlas Horror book by Ditko as you mentioned Ditko in your original post and you are a collector of horror titles.

 

In my mind, someone claiming an historical signature without verification is quite possibly a fraud as signature verification is not a service that has been around until recently. Even having a photograph of the artist signing the book is touchy as the person could continue to forge the signature on additional copies of that book or on other similar titles.

 

However, if someone were to get Ditko to sign one of those comics NOW, in front of a CGC witness, I would find, as a collector, that signature is more viable then a riskier older book that may have a forged signature.

 

To reiterate, as a collector, I would rather have a verified recent signature on an older book than an older book with an older signature that is not verified because I cannot tell if that signature is a forgery or not.

 

Kev

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

Since you clarified that in your recent post you've answered my question.

 

You wouldn't buy one on e-bay.

 

I'm always interested in the stories behind things, sure, I'll agree with you on that.

 

If someone had a signed Gaines file copy I would be interested in hearing when and how and where he signed it and how the current owner got their hands on it.

 

But would I want to buy it?

 

No, I wouldn't. Too much risk of fraud. Unless the person wanted to sell it for a lot less than what it was worth.

 

I can appreciate it without wanting to add it to my collection. I'd rather see it in a museum of comic art or something.

 

Kev

[CosmicBob]

I like signed books, for my own collection. I would never buy one from someone. Except I did this weekend. I bought that Jerry Siegel signed Action Comics #700. This WAS signed at the date of publication and Siegel's name is on every Superman comic (at least in the early 40s and from the late 70s on) so it's a relevant signature. It was authenticated by Dynamic Forces and had the certificate so I more or less believed it.

 

Do I expect to sell it? Nope. I paid too much for it, but I really wanted it and don't expect to recoup any profit from it.

 

I will get creators to sign books at cons. That Danger Girl 3 that I had for auction a while ago, I had Hughes sign that the month it came out. (It's still available for purchase, in case anyone is interested!) I'm selling it only because I'm clearing out most of my comics. I've got his signature (ok, his initials) on lots of my JLA comics and Vampirella comics, plus all the Ghost ones he did. I'll be selling them too. Will people believe me when I say he signed them? I don't know. I did manage to sell a Tomb Raider he signed for me, so maybe there is some market for this stuff.

[Kevin Boyd]

Yeah, but are any of those comics potentially worth hundreds or thousands of dollars with or without the signature? Will the signature increase the value of the book because of the historical relevancy of the signature? Or are they recent comics that were signed in front of you and fall in the $1-$25 range.

 

If it's in that lower price range then I think people are more than willing to take the risk on a signature. From time-to-time I sell signed comics, raw and signature series. With SS at least I have documentation on the authenticity of the autograph, otherwise it is merely my word and/or the word of whomever got the books signed in the first place.

 

But a comic signed by Ditko in 1953 is a different animal entirely. Using Siegel, if he had signed an Action Comics #1 in 1939 then that comic could potentially raise the value of the book for some collectors because of the historical significance of that signature. However it will turn away just as many because it sounds too good to be true, and it could be a potential scam.

 

Kev

[Joanna]

I think one of the reasons people get signatures is way of memorializing having met the person.

 

Back in the days before CGC (around 1994), when signatures were the hottest thing going, I went to the mid-Ohio con and helped John Byrne while he did his signings. I handed out little buttons and posters and stuff, but was really there as company, because it's taxing to sit and sign for a long period of time.

 

There was a huge line and because some people bring multiple books, it takes awhile for everyone to get their sigs. One guy had been waiting patiently in this endless line, but he had no comics to sign. When he finally made it to the front, he told John that his suitcase had been lost by the airlines (and it had his books in it), but he'd waited in line because he simply wanted to thank John for writing/drawing his favorite comics. He was a very soft-spoken and sincere man, obviously nervous, and could barely get his speech out. Without hesitating, John reached down to his briefcase and pulled out a first print hardcover of Next Men. He asked the man's name, signed the book, and gave it to him. The poor guy just started stuttering, staring at the book. Finally, he managed to say "Thank you" and slid to the side so the next person in line could get his sig.

 

A couple of the guys from the crowd went up to the man to look at the book, and the guy was standing there saying, "He just gave it to me. He just gave it to me," over and over again. I watched for a bit and said to John that I thought that was such a nice thing for him to do. John said, "He obviously loves comics. It's not about reselling a book with a signature for him. He just loves comics."

 

To me, that incident epitomized a "good signature." It isn't about resale, or collecting notches on a belt, it's about someone who loves comics interracting with the person who created the books that gave them that love.

 

-- Joanna

[CosmicBob]

Yes, they were cheap-o moderns. I certainly understand the difference between Siegel's signature on Action #700 or originally signed on an Action #1! It would seem too good to be true! Virtually impossible to validate. I don't think it would be a big selling point or increase the value. I think it would probably decrease the value.

 

I don't have many GA or SA keys, and I wouldn't want any of them signed anyway because, as you say, it's hard to know who actually signed it and when (without a SS).

[CosmicBob]

That was a nice thing for him to do.

 

Yeah, I agree. When I got AH to sign my JLAs, my Vampis or whatever, I wasn't thinking of resale at all. I seriously never expected to sell my comics.

 

And if Byrne ever came here to a con (and he never has so I won't hold my breath) my She-Hulks would be the only ones I would bring in, except maybe a nice Wonder Woman cover. Oh and maybe Superman #18 with the awesome Supergirl cover. And THOSE I wouldn't sell because they're among my favorites.

 

All those folks with X-Mens coming out thier butts can go to the end of the line!! Gotta get my She-Hulk #1 autographed!

 

I would dearly love to get Brian Bolland's signature on some of those fantastic Wonder Woman covers. I've got a poster of his first cover and it's fabulous. I was disappointed when he stopped drawing the covers.

[Joanna]

Bob,

 

If you want your Shulkie signed, I can send it to him for you.

 

-- Joanna

[chrisco37]

Joanna,

 

You have the BEST stories. That was really cool of John Byrne to do that. It's obvious that the man was a true fan It's good to see artists (especially the top guys, like Byrne) that appreciate the fans. After all, we are the reason those guys get to draw super-hero's for a living!

 

I've got quite a few signed books, and I agree with you. I never got them signed thinking of potential re-sell value. They were a way of remembering meeting that artist/creator.

 

I have a signed ASM #252 (that would probably grade a 9.6, but receive the dreaded "qualified" lable), but I never planned on selling it anyway. I had met Ron Frenz at a prior show and he was very friendly, and even did a cool Thor sketch for my friend. So the next show that he was at, I bought an ASM #252 specifically for him to sign. My favorite super-hero in the new "cool" costume signed by the artist! Man, I was one happy 14 yr. old!!!

 

Chris