RUBINSTEIN Commission !!! 2 days before the end of my ultimatum

[bryan91]

I know many on this board are still waiting for sketch covers from Mr. Rubinstein and are now approaching the one year mark. I was content with waiting for my item to be completed until I started getting emails from Mr. Rubinstein soliciting more work back in October. He wrote to me through my CAF account offering to do inks on one of my items. I politely declined, instead asking about my sketch cover and he stated the he would get right on those sketches.

 

About a month later, I got another solicitation. It was for a re-creation if I remember correctly, and I asked again about the covers. That was my last communication with him.

 

I know that sketches and commissions are side items to these artists and I'm content to wait. I would just appreciate updates from time to time. What I would really appreciate though, is that they stop asking to do more work before finishing previous obligations.

 

All that said, I understand Romain's frustration but the way he has handled that frustration is inappropriate. And not giving the full picture has left me hesitant to voice my frustrations with Mr. Rubinstein as well for fear of looking like I support Romain's tactics. I do not. I do agree with Ferran though, in that others need to be aware of Mr. Rubinstein's habits in dealing with commissions.

 

Exact same thing happened to me. I thought it was really weird that we had been waiting almost a year for our sketch covers and he was wanting to do more work. He was wanting to ink a piece I had posted on CAF, I told him I appreciate the offer, but paying for the sketch cover he was going to do for me was all I could afford at the time.

[oceans11]

Ok, what I see from all these posts...

 

Joe is late on commissions and seems to be soliciting more work before completing stuff that's already on his commission list. Not quite the ideal way for an artist to go about things and it seems to have frustrated a few people here. Hopefully Spencer rep'ing him will help Joe get organized and become more timely with completing things.

 

Romain on the other hand seems to have communication problems that are beyond English not being his first language. In reading his posts here along with correspondance to Spencer, the way he communicates is both confusing and sometimes a bit edgier than it needs to be. While I'm not sure, as it wasn't discussed, but if his communication with Joe was in a similar tone, then I could see how things might devolve. Not saying that Joe doesn't owe him artwork as that apparently was agreed upon, but the details on it still remain a bit sketchy at best. Sometime communication is key to getting things resolved. I'm not 100% convinced that some of the problems with getting this completed are not born from the way Romain chooses to communicate.

 

Yeah.. telling Spencer that you'd punch Joe in the face is probably not the best choice in terms of trying to get things resolved. Especially if you're trying to get him to help resolve things.

[jaydog]

I did a commission with Joe a few years ago ( an awesome Dragon Man from the OHMU) and thought he did great work, was always in touch and delivered in a timely manner.

[Romain]

I completely agree, it is a distraction from the main subject. I have no idea why Romain thought it wise, important, or necessary to drag Spencer into this. However, HE DID drag him into this.

 

Hello everybody !

sorry I've been out for three days and reading the posts just now I feel like I have been away too long !!!!

 

I sincerely hope everybody will believe me when I say that I never received any messages from Spencer but the one that I posted !

 

I just finished emailing back and forth with Spencer about this topic and he send me the email he sent to Romain BEFORE the email Romain posted. With Spencer's permission, I now post a copy of what Spencer emailed in response to Romain originally and what Romain DID NOT provide us with.

My intention was to provide you with every detail and I would never start a thread with unprovided facts !!!

 

Should I have received this mail ( I AM NOT SUGGESTING MR BECK DIDN'T SEND THE MAIL ) I would have NEVER reacted like that !

 

I mentionned in the thread already I didn't understand why he spoke of a previous mail and I honestly thought he was quoting my private talk with Joe !

 

THE ONLY THREATS I sent to MR RUBINSTEIN were to expose him on the board, the CAF and the whole European market after three years of patience and YES I did tell him for almost a year " it's OK take all the time you need and make me the best work " So am I a tyrant or more a naîve fool ?

 

I apologize to Mr BECK for the whole MISUNDERSTANDING and for posting the "private" mail as I wouldn't have expected it would mean to be rude ...

 

Why did I post Spencer's mail ? Because I felt deceived and was more than disappointed reading it and not having received the previous mail you refer to ...I guess this should make sense to you all !

 

I don't and won't apologize to Joe as I'm a REAL OLD TIME FAN who is disgusted by one of his IDOLES ...!!!

I don't need extra art I'm not an art beggar I'M a COLLECTOR and I just want the respect I desserve ! Remember he offered me extra art before that he SOLD in the meantime WHAT KIND OF RESPECT IS THAT ? WHO DOES THIS KIND OF THINGS ANYWAY ?? DO YOU ?

 

The punch in the face was NOT a threat ! It was a figure of style ! PERIOD ! I'm NO fighter, I disgust VIOLENCE and I still believe he desserves some kind of punishment which I will definitly not be the provider... Like when I say to my kid that

he desserves a good spanking but don't provide it ( should I have "threatened" Joe of a huge spanking like a kid ?? )

 

 

just because I live far from him and therefore can't come up and punch him in the face like he desserves ...

Is THAT a threat ?? What I MEAN to say is JOE is taking advantage of me because I'm french and therefore easy to avoid ... far away...

 

 

 

I will talk to Josef and see if I can work something out for you.

However, I find the above lines from your email excessive offensive.

Josef happens to be a friend of mine and I do not find the comments appropriate.

Especially since you do not know me and we have not had any dealings I am ware of in the past.

In the future, I suggest keeping comments like this to yourself.

They are offensive to make them to someone you do not know.

 

I will tell you that I have worked with Josef for longer than a decade.

Although he has been ridiculously slow and massively late on commissions at time, he has never, to my knowledge stolen a single penny form a customer and returned with either an incredible piece of artwork or worked out terms for a refund.

He is not the thief you make him out to be.

He is simply a human who makes errors and mistakes and runs into hard times like most people are these days.

 

As I said though, I will talk to Josef and see what I can work out for you.

 

Spencer R. Beck

The Artist's Choice

http://www.theartistschoice.com

 

I wish I would have received this reply from Spencer I really do ...

 

Not quite the Ogre we were made to think he was from the selective email posting made in this thread previously, is he?

 

 

 

Seeing this email that was sent to Romain, that Romain chose to omit from the story, and seeing what Romain chose to post instead, leads me to believe that Romain wanted to paint Spencer in a false and incomplete light. That is unfair and manipulative to someone that had no role in the original transaction and to someone that has stepped in to help dozens of collectors in Romain's shoes with several different artists.

 

Why would I do such a thing ? Hey I only told of my misadventure with Spencer while trying to reach for help and I never meant anything else !

My thread is about JOE and JOE only !

 

I don't think Joe is disputing that he owes Romain artwork. He's got a habit of going long over deadline. I just got a piece from him that took several months longer than promised myself. However I don't like being manipulated with less than full facts and what happened in this thread regarding Spencer reflects poorly on Romain's complaint about Joe, regardless of the complaint's veracity.

It was a distraction that Romain chose to include, and he has to deal with how that distraction, and the above revelation, affects the ultimate resolution of this matter and how the members of this forum view and judge him.

 

You assume TOO MUCH !

 

BTW JOE did offer me some " Starlin art " right after my thread !

Personnally what I paid for my commission was more than half my salary OK !

It's a matter of principle and a matter of heart ! The guy offers to do more and more commission work to anyone but doesn't do what he's been already paid to do ?? Don't you go to jail for this ? Do you realize the exposure Joe has on CAF ? on ebay ?

 

I'd rather think he be a thief but this is worse he doesn't care ! Let's try to guess HOW many mails he sent me with the same everlasting promises ? So how can I be happy with my commission anymore ? This is a dead end for me in any case ......Rubinstein isn't worth a penny on the comicart market, love was the reason for the commission, why would I hope to "find a good issue" while I know the piece would bring back bad memories only and never resell for $500 ??

 

 

Romain is owed his artwork from Joe, but Spencer is owed an apology from Romain.

I hope Spencer will accept my official apologies ! I didn't mean to drag him up but as he fixed other's problems I thought it was more than relevant to mention his mail in MY thread ...

 

Well what I'm sure of : I WON'T DO COMMISSIONS ANYMORE

 

 

 

[Romain]

Ok, what I see from all these posts...

 

Romain on the other hand seems to have communication problems that are beyond English not being his first language.

 

but if his communication with Joe was in a similar tone, then I could see how things might devolve. I'm not 100% convinced that some of the problems with getting this completed are not born from the way Romain chooses to communicate.

 

As soon as I can I'll paste some of the mails I sent to Joe and you'll be the judge of my communication problems !!!!!

You on the contrary seems to lack on the psychological side of people ...my guess !

 

[DomUga]

just a spectator

[jeremyslawsky]

 

 

 

 

Well what I'm sure of : I WON'T DO COMMISSIONS ANYMORE

 

 

Hey Romain,

 

I know this whole situation has been exhausting and bad for the most part, but please don't let that sour you on commissions. I've commissioned many things and yes there's been some bad experiences. However for the most part I have received some amazing art that tailored to me and that I would not have been able to acquire any other way.

 

 

[Romain]

I'd say it's a too big risk to learn to know the artists and be deceived while we have such a great respect for their art achievements ...No more commissions for me ........But I encline you to keep up doing what gives you lots of pleasure !!! Of course ! This was my story and I just needed to make it public ! It's been a big relief !!!!

[faust1103]

@Romain,

 

Being a fellow European I am with you on this. I wouldn't get near Rubinstein for anything (not that I would be interested in the first place).

Hope you get your money back.

 

[Terry Doyle]

@Romain,

 

Being a fellow European I am with you on this. I wouldn't get near Rubinstein for anything (not that I would be interested in the first place).

Hope you get your money back.

 

I've never been much into commissions - and certainly, from all the horror stories that regularly appear, if I ever contemplated having anything done I'd only proceed if safeguards were in place.

 

Art reps seem to be the best way to go, but if dealing with an artist directly a reasonable deposit should suffice - with the balance being payable upon completion (I'd want to see scans of the finished art).

 

By paying all your cash up-front, there's no real incentive for the artist to get the job done in a timely fashion - is there?

 

I do sympathize with Romain's plight - even if I did make a joke about the Dragon kick business (trying to inject a little humour into the way this thread was going).

 

I didn't really take the 'physical violence' bit of his too seriously.

 

I often say to my workmates that I'd love to punch my boss's lights out.

 

It's just a way to let off steam/frustration.

 

No-one actually believes I'd do it anytime soon.

[OldGuy]

I've learned three things from reading this thread.

 

1. I have way to much time on my hands.

2. Don't do business with J.R.

3. Most OA collectors are out of their #%*$ing minds.

[DomUga]

I've learned three things from reading this thread.

 

1. I have way to much time on my hands.

2. Don't do business with J.R.

3. Most OA collectors are out of their #%*$ing minds.

 

With you there buddy...hahaha

[AKA Rick]

Maybe there should be some sort of escrow service to provide a bridge between artists and customers.

 

Paying by Pay Pal doesn't protect a customer for more than a few months, so the current cash in advance system gives little recourse for customers over a frustrating long period of time.

 

Another "x-factor" is the level of customer satisfaction, since even if you pay $500 for a commission, if it comes out "disappointing" what's the recourse there?

 

I think there's inherent gambling involved with commissions. I've heard stories of artists passing away, with a commission list of undone artwork that was paid for. Talk about akward situations. Many art collectors, despite what artists perceive, art not elite patrons of the arts with thick wallets. I know a few collectors who put aside $20 a week to build up enough money to purchase artwork. So, it's disheartening to see those people ignored and chalking up their losses as the price of business and randomness of the hobby.

 

It's good to have forums like this for people to exchange experiences with artists to give their peers insight to the process, whether an artist knocks a piece out of the ballpark; falls asleep at the wheel; takes the money and runs; takes longer than a presidential term (4 years to me is insane, and I've heard of many taking this long); lapses in communication for simple updates; etc.

 

In that spirit, here's a list of artists who I've had pleasant commission experiences with at shows or via the mail:

 

Josh Howard

Tim Seeley

Michael Ryan

Tim Vigil

Todd Nauck

Steve Ditko (j/k!)

David Nakayama

George Perez

Ed Benes

Aaron Lopresti

Terry Dodson

Sean Chen

Cliff Chiang

Stephanie Lantry

David Finch

Michael Golden (yes, he was very good to me!)

Paul Smith

Norm Rapmund

Joeseph Linsner

Randy Green

...and there's a lot more that have been great to meet at shows!

 

 

 

[Ferran Delgado]

It's a shame that artists not reliable like Rubinstein makes so much harm to the comission business, which is the only route for survival for many artists who can't get regular jobs anymore.

 

Fortunately there's plenty of artists who are reliable for comissions as told by AKA Rick, so I think that the safest route is to ask for references and use forums like this one or comicart-L (use the search machine!)

 

And NEVER make full payment in advance.

 

I succesfully dealt in the past with Bob McLeod and Kris Justice and Joe Sinnott (through his son, Mark).

[AtlasFan]

Question: Is it an accepted practice for an artist's agent to require 100% payment in advance?

 

About a year ago, I contacted an agent for an artist I liked about a commission. When I suggested that I pay half now and the rest upon completion, the reaction I got left me with the feeling that I somehow spoke out of turn...

[comix4fun]

Question: Is it an accepted practice for an artist's agent to require 100% payment in advance?

 

About a year ago, I contacted an agent for an artist I liked about a commission. When I suggested that I pay half now and the rest upon completion, the reaction I got left me with the feeling that I somehow spoke out of turn...

 

 

Everyone's different.

 

There are artists out there on the flip side of our coin. They have completed commissions for fans and then have the fans disappear off the face of the earth or flat out refuse to pay. It's not as bad as a fan being ripped off by an artist because the artist still has the piece to sell to recoup some of the loss, but that's a reason a few have given me for wanting all the cash upfront.

 

However, with very few exceptions, I don't pay upfront in full. If it's an artist I have dealt with, trust, and know I may do that. Otherwise, I have put 10% to 50% down depending on promised time frame and past track record.

 

Another exception is if I am dealing with an artist's representative and that representative promises to hold the money in a sort of escrow until the work is completed and not release the money to his client until that time. Then I don't have a problem paying upfront.

 

Artist's may get offended or shocked by someone negotiating that point, but they shouldn't. It's a business transaction, and both sides should be looking to protect themselves.

[Speedy-D]

Re: involves A LOT of waiting

It sure can, but there are exceptions. I've had unbelievably fast response from some folks. Here are a few examples:

• Thom Zahler of Love and Capes completed before I really got the request out.
  
• Fred Hembeck blazed through my S&S commission.
  
• Herb Trimpe was quick and professional
  
• Al Plastino at age 88 was faster than lightning.
• 
  

Of course, your mileage may vary, but there are some really fast people out there.

 

I'll second that with Trimpe & Plastino. I've gotten a few thing from Trimpe and he's always really fast, and easy to get a hold of. Plastino was indeed quick as lightning. I got a full piece form him in the mail, I think it was 8 days or so after I sent the loot.

[Speedy-D]

On the other hand, I'm coming up on 365 days waiting for Bill Sienkiewicz...which will be 335 more than estimated.

[micmack]

On the other hand, I'm coming up on 365 days waiting for Bill Sienkiewicz...which will be 335 more than estimated.

 

You'll probably never see it....

[Ferran Delgado]

On the other hand, I'm coming up on 365 days waiting for Bill Sienkiewicz...which will be 335 more than estimated.

 

You'll probably never see it....

 

Sienkiewicz is another artist with very long waiting list and awful communication. In the line of Rubinstein, or worse...